LK82 - Science Experiment II Invitational, Spain, Deity
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
Ok, I got it. Probably will start tonight, but may not finish.
Preturn: Since we now have positive money, I change the Tax collector to a scientist which shaves off a turn on getting the tech.
I trade construction for the two Lux. I think we have a decent chance of getting them for more than a few turns (we can even build a direct road) and we still have a tech we can trade with them.
Early: Nowhere to put these settlers really. Speed up Lit (the 2 lux definitely help).
Mid: Aztecs get Currency and Poly before construction. We trade Construction straight up for currency.
Cascade breaks. We probably could have gotten the GLib if the Variant didn't forbid it (and we wanted it).
I am also working on getting cities above size 7. (Not building workers in the towns that can get there quickly - Maximizing food) This will increase unit support.
Late:
Sun Tzu is started.
We get Lit first. The same turn I can trade Currency for Polytheism.
We have Lit but there is no way we are going to trade it for Feudalism. We don't want Monarchy, so I will go for gold and Incense.
Get 271 gold and Incense from Carthage and 180 gold from Scandanavia. Buy the last embassy with the Aztecs.
I am going to research at 100% toward Monotheism Lee, I assume if we research over half ourselves we can buy the rest? If this is true then if the AI gets it and the cost is less than 732 gold (this is 1/2 the current cost in science), we can buy Monotheism (the extreme case of this is buying a tech for 11 gold when it drops to 1 turn). We probably don't want to pay that much for it, but speeding it up to get a 2-fer would be well worthwhile.
So Monotheism in 22. The rate is non-sustainable of course so it would take longer.
Capitol is going for the Library and Barcelona the Market (In general, the bigger cities are going for the Markets).
I gift Literature to several civs making them Gracious. Since it will probably be demanded away, I figure gifting it give us some good will and slightly lower prices. It won't trade well for a middle age tech anyway with other civs having it.
Notes:
Monotheism is in 14 now (several libraries -some towns grew).
I am building a Galley in the Capitol after which it will want a Market.
Science at 90% as we are getting more big cities.
In 5 turns our border will expand and we will get the a fifth Lux - the Spice. The road to it completes first in 2 turns.
I didn't use the settlers. No good place to put them.
I didn't build units. We want Markets and Libs first I think.
I trade construction for the two Lux. I think we have a decent chance of getting them for more than a few turns (we can even build a direct road) and we still have a tech we can trade with them.
Early: Nowhere to put these settlers really. Speed up Lit (the 2 lux definitely help).
Mid: Aztecs get Currency and Poly before construction. We trade Construction straight up for currency.
Cascade breaks. We probably could have gotten the GLib if the Variant didn't forbid it (and we wanted it).
I am also working on getting cities above size 7. (Not building workers in the towns that can get there quickly - Maximizing food) This will increase unit support.
Late:
Sun Tzu is started.
We get Lit first. The same turn I can trade Currency for Polytheism.
We have Lit but there is no way we are going to trade it for Feudalism. We don't want Monarchy, so I will go for gold and Incense.
Get 271 gold and Incense from Carthage and 180 gold from Scandanavia. Buy the last embassy with the Aztecs.
I am going to research at 100% toward Monotheism Lee, I assume if we research over half ourselves we can buy the rest? If this is true then if the AI gets it and the cost is less than 732 gold (this is 1/2 the current cost in science), we can buy Monotheism (the extreme case of this is buying a tech for 11 gold when it drops to 1 turn). We probably don't want to pay that much for it, but speeding it up to get a 2-fer would be well worthwhile.
So Monotheism in 22. The rate is non-sustainable of course so it would take longer.
Capitol is going for the Library and Barcelona the Market (In general, the bigger cities are going for the Markets).
I gift Literature to several civs making them Gracious. Since it will probably be demanded away, I figure gifting it give us some good will and slightly lower prices. It won't trade well for a middle age tech anyway with other civs having it.
Notes:
Monotheism is in 14 now (several libraries -some towns grew).
I am building a Galley in the Capitol after which it will want a Market.
Science at 90% as we are getting more big cities.
In 5 turns our border will expand and we will get the a fifth Lux - the Spice. The road to it completes first in 2 turns.
I didn't use the settlers. No good place to put them.
I didn't build units. We want Markets and Libs first I think.
Here is a zoomed out Map of our territory and the surrounding areas:
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 19,619
Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley
Microbe (currently playing)
Gozpel (on deck)
Kaiser_Berger
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Don't forget the variant rules listed in the first post.
LKendter
Greebley
Microbe (currently playing)
Gozpel (on deck)
Kaiser_Berger
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Don't forget the variant rules listed in the first post.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 19,619
I have absolutely no clue. Last time I looked at the game the Vikings and Zulu stole the last viable sites. I think it is stuck on standby waiting for an opening.
To end this questions I added the word in bold. However, unless that initial cost is clearly posted this can't happen. I don't want see this half research buying unless we get an excellent multiple trade out of it. I fear we will pull it off, and then go flat for research.
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
Preturn: Is this deity? I can't believe we are at tech parity.
The only thing I'm not happy with is we need bigger land, but vikings are everywhere. I hope it fights Zulu someday.
I try to understand why we want the galley before market but I'll let it be. However I switch Valencia from worker to granary. It's ring one city and we cannot afford to put it on workers. On the other hand I switch Zarag from granary to worker.
I really like to steal the dyes from Vikings but it will irritate two AIs. So I leave the settler there.
490BC: galley sails south, start market.
470BC: we get spices and drop lux to 0. AI gets Engineering. We connect horses.
IBT Zulu declares on Carthage. Barcelona market->library.
450BC: Zulu demands Republic and we give to him.
410BC: More good news: Netherlands declare on Zulu.
390BC: our galley spots somewhere we could settle, so I recall our spear.
350BC: we lose two luxes from Zulu and raise lux to 10.
Note: there is a worker unmoved. You could send it to connect the 2nd horse, but my worry is that Zulu would demand it and we get unsafe route (if Vikings declare on Zulu it'd be broken). So maybe we should try to connect the road to Zulu towns first.
I didn't build any military, but next player should start some military after the markets and libraries complete.
Monotheism is in 3 turns. It'd very close if we get it first, but we should be able to get something out of it with the AI wars.
Murcia should start worker after temple.
There is a place sourth to Cirta (Carthage) that we can settle, but not next to our territory.
The only thing I'm not happy with is we need bigger land, but vikings are everywhere. I hope it fights Zulu someday.
I try to understand why we want the galley before market but I'll let it be. However I switch Valencia from worker to granary. It's ring one city and we cannot afford to put it on workers. On the other hand I switch Zarag from granary to worker.
I really like to steal the dyes from Vikings but it will irritate two AIs. So I leave the settler there.
490BC: galley sails south, start market.
470BC: we get spices and drop lux to 0. AI gets Engineering. We connect horses.
IBT Zulu declares on Carthage. Barcelona market->library.
450BC: Zulu demands Republic and we give to him.
410BC: More good news: Netherlands declare on Zulu.
390BC: our galley spots somewhere we could settle, so I recall our spear.
350BC: we lose two luxes from Zulu and raise lux to 10.
Note: there is a worker unmoved. You could send it to connect the 2nd horse, but my worry is that Zulu would demand it and we get unsafe route (if Vikings declare on Zulu it'd be broken). So maybe we should try to connect the road to Zulu towns first.
I didn't build any military, but next player should start some military after the markets and libraries complete.
Monotheism is in 3 turns. It'd very close if we get it first, but we should be able to get something out of it with the AI wars.
Murcia should start worker after temple.
There is a place sourth to Cirta (Carthage) that we can settle, but not next to our territory.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 19,619
@Microbe - I notice your signature is wrong, LK84 = rubbLE claimers, not rubber.
=========================================
Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley
Microbe
Gozpel (currently playing)
Kaiser_Berger (on deck)
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Don't forget the variant rules listed in the first post.
This is what the science experiment is trying to prove. Are we better off feeding cash to the AI and loss money to demands, or using it for smart science?
=========================================
Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley
Microbe
Gozpel (currently playing)
Kaiser_Berger (on deck)
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Don't forget the variant rules listed in the first post.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 19,619
I got a chance to look at the game, and not much to say. My only concern is to stop the deficit spending after Monotheism. At that point we will be under $100. I don't want to risk the $100 demand and losing buildings.
I can't believe we have a chance at Monotheism being a monopoly tech.
Now we begin the long journey to get water to Zaragoza. The other long journey is the 10th city to build the FP.
I can't believe we have a chance at Monotheism being a monopoly tech.
Now we begin the long journey to get water to Zaragoza. The other long journey is the 10th city to build the FP.
Pre-turn - Not much, remove the scientists and swap Santiago to temple.
What to do with that settler? I have no idea, but I pull him back from that outback town.
Diplo is funny, everyone grins like crocs, except Monty that has a puzzled look on his face. He might crack up laughing any minute.
Why? Because of our military of course. 6 spears and 4 warriors. Yikes.
330bc - Seville aqueduct -> market. I will do some serious chopping around there.
290bc - Dutch wants us to join their war against Zulu, nah.
Amazing, we learn Mono first. Sell it to Dutch for Feudalism, 13gpt and 9g.
Feudalism to America for Engineering, 28gpt and 16g.
Mono to Carthage for 2046g
and they become gracious?
Noone knows anything else, no Invention or Chivalry.
I decide to pick the last few gold I can get, so Aztecs gets Mono for 24gpt and 3g and America gets the same for 8gpt and 17g.
How our income improved! 2185g and 49gpt with science on 90%, we're researching Chivalry. Some quality units won't hurt, knights are kind of quality, right?
Madrid market -> horse.
Barcelona library -> barracks.
Typically, since I did the trading IT, Carthage learnt Invention.
Rush the temple in Santiago for 44g, so we can start barracks there sooner.
270bc - Zulu and America sign peace.
Santiago temple -> court.
Pamplona temple -> worker
Join the settler in Valencia. We can build another settler when we have a spot to settle, I don't want to settler aggresively before we have more military.
Rush the temple in Murcia for 20g.
Rush barracks in Barcelona for 116g.
250bc - Aztecs wants to sell Monarchy for 800 something gold, no thanks.
Barcelona barracks -> horse.
Toledo granary -> worker.
Murcia temple -> worker.
Rush worker in Pamplona, so we can get that irrigation going.
Toledo will be a 2-turn worker factory.
230bc - Civs are building Sun Tzu and Leo's.
America and Cartage sign peace.
Renew the incense deal with Carthage for 187g.
Madrid horse -> horse.
Pamplona worker -> harbor.
210bc - Toledo worker -> settler.
Rush worker in Murcia for 32g, forgot that last turn.
Rush court in Santiago for 232g
190bc - Barcelona horse -> horse.
Santiago court -> barracks. Another 10-shield town.
Murcia worker -> court.
Rush settler in Toledo for 100g. I will plop down a town by the wheat, so we can start the FP. I should've done this with the first settler, but worried more about rank corruption, than the importance of FP.
170bc - Madrid horse -> horse.
Toledo settler -> worker.
Buy a worker from Iroquois for 118g.
150bc - I left the settler and we need to decide if we are bold enough to settle against Viking borders (red dot) or if we will play meekly and settle on the yellow. This town will be able to squeeze out some workers.
FP in Seville or Barcelona?
Chivalry due in 4 turns, no one knows it yet.
We have over 1500g and make 29gpt right now, maybe we should rush more stuff before it get demanded away? Or save it for a trade?
What to do with that settler? I have no idea, but I pull him back from that outback town.
Diplo is funny, everyone grins like crocs, except Monty that has a puzzled look on his face. He might crack up laughing any minute.
Why? Because of our military of course. 6 spears and 4 warriors. Yikes.
330bc - Seville aqueduct -> market. I will do some serious chopping around there.
290bc - Dutch wants us to join their war against Zulu, nah.
Amazing, we learn Mono first. Sell it to Dutch for Feudalism, 13gpt and 9g.
Feudalism to America for Engineering, 28gpt and 16g.
Mono to Carthage for 2046g
and they become gracious?Noone knows anything else, no Invention or Chivalry.
I decide to pick the last few gold I can get, so Aztecs gets Mono for 24gpt and 3g and America gets the same for 8gpt and 17g.
How our income improved! 2185g and 49gpt with science on 90%, we're researching Chivalry. Some quality units won't hurt, knights are kind of quality, right?
Madrid market -> horse.
Barcelona library -> barracks.
Typically, since I did the trading IT, Carthage learnt Invention.
Rush the temple in Santiago for 44g, so we can start barracks there sooner.
270bc - Zulu and America sign peace.
Santiago temple -> court.
Pamplona temple -> worker
Join the settler in Valencia. We can build another settler when we have a spot to settle, I don't want to settler aggresively before we have more military.
Rush the temple in Murcia for 20g.
Rush barracks in Barcelona for 116g.
250bc - Aztecs wants to sell Monarchy for 800 something gold, no thanks.
Barcelona barracks -> horse.
Toledo granary -> worker.
Murcia temple -> worker.
Rush worker in Pamplona, so we can get that irrigation going.
Toledo will be a 2-turn worker factory.
230bc - Civs are building Sun Tzu and Leo's.
America and Cartage sign peace.
Renew the incense deal with Carthage for 187g.
Madrid horse -> horse.
Pamplona worker -> harbor.
210bc - Toledo worker -> settler.
Rush worker in Murcia for 32g, forgot that last turn.
Rush court in Santiago for 232g
190bc - Barcelona horse -> horse.
Santiago court -> barracks. Another 10-shield town.
Murcia worker -> court.
Rush settler in Toledo for 100g. I will plop down a town by the wheat, so we can start the FP. I should've done this with the first settler, but worried more about rank corruption, than the importance of FP.
170bc - Madrid horse -> horse.
Toledo settler -> worker.
Buy a worker from Iroquois for 118g.
150bc - I left the settler and we need to decide if we are bold enough to settle against Viking borders (red dot) or if we will play meekly and settle on the yellow. This town will be able to squeeze out some workers.
FP in Seville or Barcelona?
Chivalry due in 4 turns, no one knows it yet.
We have over 1500g and make 29gpt right now, maybe we should rush more stuff before it get demanded away? Or save it for a trade?
microbe
Cascaded Mansion
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2003
- Messages
- 4,596
Great we got Mono the first. 
Never seen this, really. And there is big chance that we get Chivalry the first too.
I mentioned this in my last report:
That might not be a good spot to settle as it is isolated by Carthagian territory, but have you seen it?
Never seen this, really. And there is big chance that we get Chivalry the first too.I mentioned this in my last report:
That might not be a good spot to settle as it is isolated by Carthagian territory, but have you seen it?
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
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Well I think we will be able to afford a few upgrades of spearman to pikeman, and horseman to knights. I would start swapping around our spearman to complete all of the needed upgrades. A change to use cash to improve our military is pretty rare this early in the game. I really want to take advantages.
As long as cash is this high we can afford to keep deficit spending going. We can't lose $1000 in a single round of demands.
I believe Seville is further away, but can still built it quickly. I would go with Seville.
I would go with red dot and rush a temple after 1 shield in the bin. We the cash we have we should be able to buy plenty of alliances if immediate trouble. I want a first ring city we some decent shields in the long-term.
Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Greebley
Microbe
Gozpel
Kaiser_Berger (currently playing)
Kaiser_Berger
Terran Emporer
Good stuff. Got it.
Kaiser_Berger
Terran Emporer
Preturn- We look good.
IT- GL built by Dutch.
T1 130
Vitoria founded.
IT- Viking and Dutch gang up on Zulus.
T2 110
Start FP in Seville, due in 29. Rush temple in Vitoria and courthouse in Murcia. I up luxes to 20% to allow Barcelona further growth, play with scientists in corrupt towns to maintian Chivalry in two turns.
IT- Spot Berserks heading towards Zululand.
T3 90
Not much to do.
IT- We learn Chivalry. Set research to Theology. Vikes complete Sun Tzu.
T4 70
America, Carthage, Dutch and Vikes all learn Chivalry on same turn as us
Despite that, we still have a good trade oppurtunity. Chivalry and 375g gets us Invention from the Aztecs.
Carthage, Dutch, Vikes and Americans all have Gunpowder.
I send Chivalry and Invention to Iroquois for 60g and 17gpt.
IT- Carthage completes KT. Dutch complete Leos. Vikes start Sistines.
T5 50
Vikes and Carthage have Theology. I think the Vikes research is being bolstered by their GA.
IT- zzz
T6 30
Nothing much. Mostly worker actions. Out research time on Theology has dropped by about three turns.
IT- zzz
T7 10
Nothing new.
IT- zzz
T8 10 AD
Not much.
IT- Carthage completes Sistines.
T9 30
Not much.
IT-zzz
T10 50
Fairly quiet.
Summary
This game is going quite well. I think we have a good shot at getting Theology third, giving us a good shot at dealing for Gunpowder with it.
IT- GL built by Dutch.
T1 130
Vitoria founded.
IT- Viking and Dutch gang up on Zulus.
T2 110
Start FP in Seville, due in 29. Rush temple in Vitoria and courthouse in Murcia. I up luxes to 20% to allow Barcelona further growth, play with scientists in corrupt towns to maintian Chivalry in two turns.
IT- Spot Berserks heading towards Zululand.
T3 90
Not much to do.
IT- We learn Chivalry. Set research to Theology. Vikes complete Sun Tzu.
T4 70
America, Carthage, Dutch and Vikes all learn Chivalry on same turn as us
Despite that, we still have a good trade oppurtunity. Chivalry and 375g gets us Invention from the Aztecs.
Carthage, Dutch, Vikes and Americans all have Gunpowder.
I send Chivalry and Invention to Iroquois for 60g and 17gpt.
IT- Carthage completes KT. Dutch complete Leos. Vikes start Sistines.
T5 50
Vikes and Carthage have Theology. I think the Vikes research is being bolstered by their GA.
IT- zzz
T6 30
Nothing much. Mostly worker actions. Out research time on Theology has dropped by about three turns.
IT- zzz
T7 10
Nothing new.
IT- zzz
T8 10 AD
Not much.
IT- Carthage completes Sistines.
T9 30
Not much.
IT-zzz
T10 50
Fairly quiet.
Summary
This game is going quite well. I think we have a good shot at getting Theology third, giving us a good shot at dealing for Gunpowder with it.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 19,619
Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Greebley (on deck)
Microbe
Gozpel
Kaiser_Berger
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Don't forget the variant rules listed in the first post.
LKendter (currently playing)
Greebley (on deck)
Microbe
Gozpel
Kaiser_Berger
Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Don't forget the variant rules listed in the first post.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 19,619
Please read the rules below. I specifically blocked it after last games tech failure because of it.
5) Research is prohibited on optional techs except the following specific techs: Literature, Republic, Military Tradition, Nationalism, and Sanitation. If Literature and Republic are available at the same time we can't choose literature.
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