Long Time Player, New Poster

Depending on what techs you "draw" in the beginning, your start could also get seriously hampered if you don't have the worker techs to improve your food. Even at Noble, this can probably be an issue if you have lots of bad tiles the first 50 turns.

Perhaps you don't like to do this if you think it is an exploit or whatever, but even with just warriors you could fogbust some of the land to help defend against barbs. And once you manage to get archery, chariots or axes, you should be sorted. And then probably have units you can attack with too.

I once played a game where I let the AI do everything. Picked the recommended techs, automated workers, and automated cities. To say it was a mess is putting it very mildly :lol:
 
There is an option in the custom game setup called balanced resources it changes the initial setup of your starting location.
(It is not allowed for HoF so Serai won't have his usual good advice)
As I understand it Balanced Resources guarantees you certain resources will be within 6 squares of your initial start position; which is where you settle your city anyway.
I read about it in the OneCityChalange beginners guide (and ignored that advice and so have no Iron within my Culture and are trading Lizzy Uranium for it Yikes!!)
Supposedly it ensures that you have Copper, Iron and coal inside your Maximum border expansion and probably Aluminum and Uranium too. They are the essential resources you must have to win a Space Race victory.
I am not sure if horses are included as You can still win all victory types without them.

On to other points

I have to ask? Bro! Do you even Whip!!!

Do you have any other Custom game options enabled eg. No Tech Brokering.

I am assuming you play BeyondtheSword.
You have an interesting game style and I will give it a spin sometime.


TMIT TheMeInTeam gives a good demonstration on how to use the draft in his Tokogawa with Riflemen game on YouTube.

Perhaps Serai or Pangaea could recommend a play-through or game utilizing the Elephant trample, those big grey pachyderms are pretty unstoppable in numbers!


The Warlord to prince jump is pretty big because the much reduced Happy cap and occasionally the Health cap (perhaps just as much you with your Settle in Place start policy) so concentrate on happy and healthy resources as early as you can.

ReXing more and smaller cities until your economy staggers could make you big gains

Perhaps someone who plays with the Balanced Resources box ticked could chip in the real dope on it.

S&D sweeps of the Fog of War should help with the Barbarian problem as suggested or parking a unit on a handy hill.

Otherwise you could try one of the betterAI mods (or Kmod) for a smarter AI at your present level

Happy Civing!
 
I can only give you some benchmarks, because of having no PC for a week.

10 Elephants + 5 Catapults are good for 500 BC and should allow war against any civ. Build a Barracks + Stable in the capital and let the arbitrary cities produce catapults. Don't stop building while still being in war, unless you know that it's winnable with what you got.

If chances are low, send 1-2 cats in, then take the much stronger Elephants. When ther are only weaklings left, send in the remaining cats to level them.
 
I don't know how to take a screenshot in game, but as an example of what I'm talking about, in this game I've had HORRIBLE luck with the cards and Democracy just hasn't come up. And I've got cities with 6 and 7 unhappiness due to "We demand Emancipation." Which is fine, that's what's SUPPOSED to happen. I enjoy the challenge. It's why I play this way. The old way was just always the same to me. The techs were researched in largely the same order, the units and buildings became available in largely the same order, and the game was just largely the same over and over again. So I wanted to change it up.

But I've got a HUGE empire, with over 30 cities, and, count them, THREE, that's right THREE happiness resources in my borders (one silver, one incense, and four sugars). That's just not the same as it was when I played on Warlord. I absolutely believe, that in addition to the other changes that are made from difficulty to difficulty, that resource allocation, or at least resource placement, must also be part of it.

And it's turned the game (playing with this admitted unique play style) from way too easy on Warlord to nigh near impossible on Noble. And that's just one level of jump and it's so frustrating.

Sure, I could "cheat' with the cards, go for Democracy anyway, get my cities back to being productive, "cheat" again and get the next important military tech and just go take some resources, but I never had to cheat on Warlord level, and was winning easily (getting the Augustus Caesar rating every time) while now every game so far on Noble has been unbeatable.

Sure would be nice if there were some level in between so I could still play like this, have it become more of a challenge than it is on Warlord yet not become so frustratingly difficult on Noble.

Going to go again though. While frustrating, at least it's keeping me involved a little more than the too easy games on Warlord were. It was a lot of fun at first changing it up, seeing how different and more challenging the game could become when techs become available in completely unpredictable ways, but then I guess I "got better" (not sure how you can "get better" with this play style since most of the important decisions are taken away from you and become random but I must have) and it was just a coast every single time no matter how badly the order of the techs came up.

Once (back when I was still playing on Warlord), I had my capital on the coast, with two crabs and a fish in the it's borders, and it was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay laaaaaaaaaaaate before fishing ever came up. Talk about changing the way that game played, it was completely different than what "normally" what have happened. It also put me behind early on, as my food and beaker production were hurt by having a coastal capital without being able to take advantage of such productive tiles. But I persisted, and by turn 900 IIRC and conquered the world.

The what-ifs are just so much fun playing this way. It sure would be nice to find a difficulty setting to make the game itself more fun too. I'll keep trying, maybe I'll figure something out.
 
The resource allocation simply doesn't change with difficulty level. Trust us. If it did, it would be utterly impossible to win on Immortal and especially Deity. If you only have a few happy resources with 30 cities, you must have been very unlucky indeed. But you must have some resources, so I'm sure you can trade them away for some happiness.
 
If you have 30 cities and only 3 happy resources, my first thought would be, the next game you'll have lots more. My second thought would be, poor city placement. ;)
 
The resource allocation simply doesn't change with difficulty level. Trust us. If it did, it would be utterly impossible to win on Immortal and especially Deity. If you only have a few happy resources with 30 cities, you must have been very unlucky indeed. But you must have some resources, so I'm sure you can trade them away for some happiness.

Then I must have been very unlucky SIX STRAIGHT TIMES.

Now granted, that's possible. Anyone could flip a coin and have it come up heads six straight times and the coin still be fine. But when I see it six straight times with a new coin (these are the first six times I've tried this play style on Noble,) then it's natural to wonder about that new coin.

As I said, I'll keep going. I mean of course I'll keep going. I love this game too much not too, and I'm just not interested in going back to the old way of playing after experiencing the randomness and differences in playing this way. But if I get six more in a row with little or no resources, I'm going to post back here again.

Can anyone tell me how to take a screenshot so I can post it here? Is it possible the HUGE map with only SIX total Civs spreads the resources out so much that things you might not see in other games I'm seeing here???? Maybe in other games resource placement gets a little harder (a little further away from your start point) but it's hardly noticeable because the map is so much more condensed? I dunno, all I know is six straight games on a new difficutly, and six straight times resources just are NOT there the way they were on Warlord level. That's an observable fact, so something is going on. Maybe it is rotten luck. Or maybe there is some subtle change to resource placement depending on difficulty that is hardly noticeable unless one plays like this (HUGE MAP WItH VERY FEW CIVS).
 
Forget about the resources and the map or the difficulty, it's really not linked to each other. I once played a cultural victory and got 6 of 18 Great Prophets though rhe chances for it were below 5% for each. Someone dis maths about it and chance was 1 in a few thousands iirc.

Screenshot is always the print-key under windows.
 
It's been pretty thoroughly demonstrated that resource allocation does not change due to difficulty level. If you are using a nonstandard map script, that might be the issue.
 
OP. I think all you are doing is proving is how easy warlord is. You are showing that Warloard is so easy you can play it without strategy. Nobel is Neutral and where you have to start thinking about what you are doing. You are basically playing Chess by random and wondering why you can win...

Choosing the next tech at random is going to guarantee your failure every time. I suppose you might win the Lottery once and win. But under normal circumstances I really don't even understand why you would play a strategy game sans strategy and expect to win.

You win on Warlord because a Blind Monkey with Down Syndrome can win on Warlord.

Also resources are important but not mandatory. If you work the land properly you should be fine with limited resources. The only thing that would make the game really difficult then normal would be if the map had no iron. But even then if nobody has it, it's doable.
 
@OldFatGuy. You play huge continents, low sea level, marathon speed. 5AI (all random), your own civ/leader is random.You select techs by using cards as already described. Is that right?

What settings do you use for huts, events, barbs (none, standard, raging?), tech trading/brokering? Do you allow resource trading? Open borders? Vassals? Espionage?

Screenshots; print screen on the keyboard saves screenshots into the screenshot folder. With shift+printscreen you get to give them titles for easier reference. To upload screenshots you can either upload as thumbnails or use a broker (such as Photobucket or Image shack or many more)
 
OP. I think all you are doing is proving is how easy warlord is. You are showing that Warloard is so easy you can play it without strategy. Nobel is Neutral and where you have to start thinking about what you are doing. You are basically playing Chess by random and wondering why you can win...

Choosing the next tech at random is going to guarantee your failure every time. I suppose you might win the Lottery once and win. But under normal circumstances I really don't even understand why you would play a strategy game sans strategy and expect to win.

You win on Warlord because a Blind Monkey with Down Syndrome can win on Warlord.

Also resources are important but not mandatory. If you work the land properly you should be fine with limited resources. The only thing that would make the game really difficult then normal would be if the map had no iron. But even then if nobody has it, it's doable.

I get that it can't be played on the harder difficulties this way. I've said as much now several times. What I didn't understand was it could go from way too easy to way to hard in just ONE difficulty jump.

I'm not expecting to be able to play it this way on the harder difficulties, and never suggested it should be played that way. I know this is not the way the game was "meant" to be played, and thus was never expecting me or anyone on the planet to win playing this way on the more difficult levels.

But it just seems a bit odd that the jump could be so huge in just one move (from Warlord to Noble). I thought perhaps there must be other things going on in the jumps besides what I was used to, and was questioning whether availability or access to resources was maybe one of those things. I now understand it's not, as I've been unlucky now in six straight games.

But I finally figured out how to test my theory easily, and sure enough, you guys were right, resource allocation and/or placement does not seem to be connected to difficulty. I made 20 starts, 10 on Warlord and 10 on Noble, with the exact same setups and went into the world builder thing that shows the whole map immediately, and simply counted up the resources within 12 hexes of the original settler placement and while there were more resources in total on the 10 Warlord games, it was NOT statistically significant and more importantly it was true that on 9 of the 11 games there was actually more resources (happy or strategic, I didn't count food resources) within that range on Noble difficulty, which is almost exactly 50/50. So no, it doesn't appear that resource placement or availability is affected by difficulty level. At least not from Warlord to Noble.

And I play this way because I think it is FUN. I get that others won't agree, and don't expect them too. I only commented because I found, and STILL find, it hard to understand how or why it would be such a big difference in results in just one single difficulty jump. I wouldn't have expected that, thus my questions.

And to the last poster above who asked about settings, I listed them above, and all of those other things you asked about (huts/barbs/trading/etc.) I leave ALL OF THEM at default. Maybe that's where I'll have to tinker in order to come up with a happy medium between Warlord and Noble in order to find my happy spot.
 
Fun variant so far. Rolled a random map (huge marathon 5 random AI etc), got Joao. Just beaten off Vedic Aryan uprising, currently researching Horseback Riding with no horses within 20 tiles.
 
Fun variant so far. Rolled a random map (huge marathon 5 random AI etc), got Joao. Just beaten off Vedic Aryan uprising, currently researching Horseback Riding with no horses within 20 tiles.

I find it quite fun, as it forces you to "deal with" things that you ordinarily wouldn't deal with, such as the one game where all of my cities were very unhappy because of no emancipation. Ordinarily if that scenario occurred, a rational player would of course seek out Democracy as quick as possible to get his cities back up to maximum efficiency. But I was forced to "role-play" a scenario where our government had a tyrant who was unwilling to give the people emancipation, and it was fun and challenging.

I've had games where my resources close to the capital required techs that just didn't come up until way later than would normally be the case. I mean who would not go for animal husbandry really quick if they had cows in their capital city radius immediately? It's just FUN to me to have it be random and then deal with the consequences. As I said before, I've played this game literally thousands of hours, and consider it BY FAR to be the best of any of the Civs I've played (Civ II, III, IV, V and SMAC) but even this was getting a little old because let's face it, starting resources, location, and nation/leader almost dictate a straight path as far as techs go and it just got to be more like a work chore than a game I guess.

This brought back serious immersion and wildly different scenarios (you can get some techs prior to others that you would NEVER see playing it "normally") where different buildings/units and options become available/unavailable that it forces you to rethink and change your game plan mid-stream often. It's fun and challenging and I just found if more fun that the old way of upping the difficulty to the higher levels where it gets so frustrating to me because the AI still isn't that smart it just cheats like crazy. My dream Civ game would be Civ IV, BtS, with an AI that got SMARTER and played with the same rules as you as you upped the difficulty. Losing to that would not be nearly as frustrating. It's always been my number one complaint about Civ games, instead of putting in the hours to make the AI smarter, they just make the AI cheat. It would be like making chess AI harder not by making it smarter, but by giving it four queens, six rooks, and 8 bishops instead of all the pawns. It's no longer chess then.
 
For those not "getting" why I do this, consider this. All I'm doing is the same thing the developers did, only turning it around. The developers upped the difficulty by giving the AI advantages. I'm merely turning that around by upping the difficulty by giving myself disadvantages. And doing it in a way that I can't control (having the cards control it).

It's just another way of doing the same thing, and it's less frustrating to me this way than the "normal" way of giving the AI advantages plus it really changes up the game. That's all. It's just plain fun for me.
 
It's always been my number one complaint about Civ games, instead of putting in the hours to make the AI smarter, they just make the AI cheat.

Obviously you're not a programmer. Or if you are, probably not a good one.
The game has been out for how long? Yes quite long. And the source code has been available for quite a long time. The code has been torn apart and analyzed by thousands of people. People have tried to make the AI better. Better AI was first and was incorporated and K-mod is also an improvement. But it's only so good. If the game had waited for the AI that you expect, it would still not have been released. The could have dumbed down the AI for noble games but that would have been silly. A lot of hours have been invested afterwards and the AI is just a little better. There is so much complexity in this game that it's difficult to program all the possible combinations for a truly great AI.
 
Obviously you're not a programmer. Or if you are, probably not a good one.

I never said I was one, yet what I said was still absolutely true. They had a choice, invest massive hours into making a better AI or save massive hours (and expense) by simply giving the AI advantages, and they chose the latter. And it may be true that in the real world market place, that was the only choice, but it doesn't change the fact that this is the choice they made.

As to whether it's feasible to build a smarter AI or not, I'll just say that everything you just said about the AI for CIV was said about chess AI back in the 1960's when the first computer chess games were programmed. ("There's just too many possibilities, computer power is limited, etc. etc. etc.)

Given a choice, I'd pay $100 and wait an extra two to three years for the right Civ game that has better AI instead of just cheats. But that's me, and I realize it's likely not the public at large, and as a company in it for profit, they've got to make the best market based decision. That doesn't mean I don't get to criticize it.
 
You missed my point. It has been well over 3 years and the AI hasn't been improved that much. And many have made the effort. Read more older threads around here and you can at least scratch the surface at how much effort was tried. Chess was easy in comparison.
Maybe it wasn't as much by choice as by capability.

But in your defense, in CIV V they had the same choice and they choose fast, cheap, and awful.
 
I only commented because I found, and STILL find, it hard to understand how or why it would be such a big difference in results in just one single difficulty jump. I wouldn't have expected that, thus my questions.

Re-reading my comments I feel it might have come of a bit harsh. Sorry about that. I totally get what your saying though. I think most of the reason people think warlord to noble isn't a big jump is because both are pretty easy anyway. I think people may over estimate just how easy warlord really is.

No idea why the jump is so dramatic, but it's definitely the difference between actually playing and just kind of figuring things out. It really boggles me how there are so many levels below Noble tbh. Is it even possible to lose on chieftain or settler? :confused:
 
No idea why the jump is so dramatic, but it's definitely the difference between actually playing and just kind of figuring things out. It really boggles me how there are so many levels below Noble tbh. Is it even possible to lose on chieftain or settler? :confused:

I am ashamed to admit that I once lost a game on chieftain. Inca snuck in a diplo victory against me. I dislike both the Apostolic palace and the UN. I find them cheesy and very annoying. Ever since I play without diplo victory.
 
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