LotR22 - Insane Izzy

[Arathorn]

LotR22 Insane Izzy
Difficulty: Prince
Game Speed: Epic
Map Script: Pangea
Civilization: Spain (under Isobella)
Opponents: Random (6)
Map Size: Standard
Variant: Religion Fanatic (see below) We all know Izzy is a religious fanatic -- now we'll take it to the extreme!

Roster:
Arathorn
LKendter
Jabah
Kylearan
MadDogTrebonius

Religion Fanatic (subject to modification/clarification) –

One religion to rule them all, one religion to find them,
One religion to crush them all, and to the Light bind them.

- The first religion in any of our cities becomes The One True Religion. It is best to be the founder of this religion, I would think.
- All other religions are evil and must be exterminated. The goal is 100% following of The One True Religion (TOTR). Any city following any religion other than TOTR must be razed to the ground.
- Cities following only TOTR must be allowed to live in peace and harmony. If they choose to flip to the player, that’s fine, but they MAY NOT be attacked.
- We may never spread any religion other than TOTR.
- We may never be in the Free Religion Civic.
- Any victory condition where TOTR is 100% in F7 is fine.
- We may only militarily ally with nations following TOTR. We may ally with them even if they have some cities following things other than TOTR (but we’ll have to attack them later, note).
- All Prophets follow TOTR. The first prophet must either discover the tech for TOTR (e.g., Theology to found Christianity) or build the Shrine for TOTR. Any later Prophets must be joined to the Holy City as super-specialists.

Here's a picture of our starting location. Spain by a lake again. No Cuba-induced hydra madness this time, though!



Questions/issues I am wondering about...

- First build? Normally, I really like worker, but he'll have nothing to do for YEARS, since we're going for Buddhism first. Stonehenge? Warrior? If there were a sea resource, probably fishing boat (the water to the south is salty). Could still do a fishing boat for exploration purposes.
- Where to found? In place? South on the hill? I lean pretty strongly towards settling in place (losing the forest), as that keeps the cows in range.
- Research path? I'm thinking Meditation->Hunting->Animal Husbandry as the first three. Archery can be substitured for AH if needed. After that? I dunno. Head for Monotheism if Judaism has been founded? Wheel and Pottery? Archery? Mining to Bronze? Sailing for Lighthouse? Will depend on what's around, I imagine.
- Initial square to work? The lake for the three commerce? Or that grassland forest to the north for the hammer? With no need for a worker until we have some techs, I'm tempted to go the commerce route.

Any other thoughts before I get started on this -- probably tomorrow night, still?

Arathorn

 

[Jabah]

Checking in.

Madrid
Settle in place sounds better (for the cow and also to save a hill for production, as I am not sure we have loads).

Religion-research
Polytheism is needed for Monotheism, why shouldn't we try to be Hindhuist instead of Buddhist (that way we have less to research on the religious tree).
Another reason is that the AI is more reluctant (in my experience) to research it, so we have a better chance even if not working the lake.
After, research should probably be set toward finding copper (after being able to connect our bonus) as razing cities might be easier ASAP.

Working square.
If going for Meditation, I would take no risk and work the lake, otherwise we could try the forrest

Building
Depending on research time, I would try a worker first anyway as getting the cow and ivory will give huge bonus. that is IF time for [research for (Poly+hunting)] < time for [building worker].

---> My suggestion
research Polytheism, build worker, work forrest.

edit : otherwise
research Meditation, build worker, work lake (until meditation, forrest after)

Medium/short term, seriously think about razing asap the holy city and ending the religion before it could spread (means having a ready and strong military)

Jabah

Bonus question, can you pop a religion (tech) from a hut. if yes guess what it means

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

- First build? Normally, I really like worker, but he'll have nothing to do for YEARS, since we're going for Buddhism first.

Meditation and Hunting are both cheap, so we would soon have something for him to do. Maybe one warrior for MP (send the first exploring), then worker? Or if that's still too early, two warriors - I like to explore as much as possible before barbarian archers appear.

Stonehenge would be nice for the free border expansions; but I'd hate to waste the early cheap great people all on prophets when we only really need one for the shrine...

-Kylearan

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

After, research should probably be set toward finding copper (after being able to connect our bonus) as razing cities might be easier ASAP.

I've thought about that as well, as I love skipping archery if copper is available. However, that might conflict with our other goals: Worker techs, monotheism, ... - I guess we'll have to see how the game goes before we can decide that.

Bonus question, can you pop a religion (tech) from a hut.

Ouch! Can that happen, actually? I've never seen this yet.

-Kylearan

 

[Jabah]

Ouch! Can that happen, actually? I've never seen this yet.

-Kylearan

That was a real question, as I am not sure as well. I can't remember seing that, but we won't be happy if we discover that we can...

Jabah

 

[Arathorn]

Not to worry. I never get techs from huts anyway. Odds are if the three of us haven't seen it, it's not possible. Would be annoying, to say the least.

Arathorn

 

[LKendter]

Well I have done well with getting techs from huts. However, I have *never* gotten a religion via hut. I have gotten perquisites such as mysticism and priesthood.

 

[LKendter]

Now that I am home I can look at strategy closer.

Without the gridlines I can't tell if the cattle would be in range if we moved the settler one south onto the hill. Is that hill a one or two shield hill? I would only consider the hill if two shields.

On the religious techs I would prefer the safe bet of Hinduism. If we have another spiritual civ in the game Buddhism will go very fast.

For the tech run I want Hindu to start with. The cattle tile is the more powerful tile by far, so the next goal IMHO should be to get pastures. I can't recall if we need on or two techs for this.

I think the shield choice is better then commerce choice. We are most likely going to have early research problem as all the tech pathways get bottle necked waiting for the AI to research religions.

I am not sure when to build it, but I would really like an early Stonehenge. The faster we get the first prophet and have a shrine that my help spread the word, the better shape this game is in.

 

[PeeDub]

I agree on Stonehenge. I don't think the problem of having *too* many prophets is one that would weigh on us too heavily. Plus, I think it's likely we'll eventually be building other GP wonders in Madrid, and I think the GPP aspect of Stonehenge also expires along with its culture effects.

 

[The Caltrop]

May I join this game (you didn't say if the roster was full or not)?

 

[Bezhukov]

Its a one-hammer hill and out-of-range of the cow. Settling in place also gets you two inland lake tiles that act like a food bonus (3 food) once you build a lighthouse, unless the other water is a lake too.

 

[Kylearan]

Ah yes, I didn't really think about that shrines greatly increase the spreading of TOTR; so please ignore my comment about stonehenge...

-Kylearan

 

[culdeus]

I'd like to be an alternate for this game.

 

[Arathorn]

Jabah's point about Hinduism vs. Buddhism is well taken, especially since Buddhism does NOT give temples (that's Priesthood). Why risk the religion that seems to fall so early sometimes, perhaps necessitating two religious techs right away? We start research on Polytheism right away. Only 3 extra turns, and neither one would let us get a worker tech anywhere close to in time.

Warrior begun, after founding in place. Wheat to the north, so Hunting (because it's SO cheap) will be followed by Agriculture, then by Animal Husbandry, I believe. We have a wealth of resources here -- let's get them to use immediately.

Things move along...and Polytheism comes in, leading to the very-expected....



Hinduism is TOTR!!! All hail Hinduism. Madrid is the center of all things religious in the world, too, as Buddhism was not founded at that date.

Exploring yields contacts out the yang...








A less religious crew, one could hardly imagine. So it's no surprise that TOTR is the ONLY religion founded anywhere, still, after 40 turns. I picked random foes, and this is what it comes up with. Interesting. We may have a long wait for OR, let alone Theocracy.

With so many "friends" around, huts are hard to find. Despite having two warriors out exploring relatively early, I popped one hut and got 32 gold (in 3560 BC). Both warriors were attacked by animals that turn, and both survived, but needed many turns to heal. Barb warriors started appearing late in my turnset, so be warned.

Hunting came in shortly before the worker completed (I went warrior-worker-warrior), and the more foody elephants are camped out. The worker then went to the wheat (not roading, at least partly because we don't know the Wheel yet) for the discovery of Agriculture. He's farming there now and will probably have time to camp the other ivory before heading to the cows. After AH, I suggest Archery as our 3 warriors are scaring no one, least of all the barbarians.

Once we reach size 4, we should probably start on a settler or two or three. There are riches all around (see pic next post), but neighbors are CLOSE. Peter's extremely close to the east (3rd ring, maybe), Fred's just south of us (about the same distance), and there's water north and west. It could be tight. The Spanish Inquisition may need to ride early!

Lots of potentially good city sites. Some interesting dilemmas, too, about squeezing another city in west of Madrid to work the gems. NW desert is a good spot, but should be ours regardless. I'd try to find a good spot east first (reach would get us pigs, rice, and dye). The stone to our south is interesting, but first ring to Fred so probably impossible.

A few interesting decisions and a lot of warrior exploration for the next player. Nobody to meet, though. I got 'em all! Research path, settler sites, etc.

Arathorn

 

[Arathorn]

Nearby lands...



Save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/LotR22_BC-2400.Civ4SavedGame

Roster:
Arathorn
LKendter -- UP NOW
Jabah -- on deck
Kylearan
MadDogTrebonius

@wanters to join: It's full. I don't think anybody from this crew will drop. But feel free to copy the concept variant, if you find it interesting.

Arathorn

 

[LKendter]

It is one the list for tomorrow...

 

[Arathorn]

Reminder -- I played 40. Everybody else plays 20 in the first round. Then, starting with my second round, we go to 10/player. So, Lee, play 20. Shouldn't take long, with 3 warriors and a worker to our name.

Arathorn

 

[Kylearan]

Indeed an interesting set of AIs. I still don't have a clue about Peter's personality, and seeing Toku again... *groan* Against him, I think the main weapons of the Spanish inquisition will be fire and sword.

Nice starting position. With ivory and gems, we will have a lot of potential for pre-Calendar growth.

I think with so many close neighbours around us, we should forget about early wonders and send out settlers instead.

-Kylearan

 

[Arathorn]

Normally, I would agree with sending out settlers ASAP. My concern is our variant. We don't want TOO many cities where TOTR won't be spread pretty quickly. If we had a Shrine and could be more certain of the spread of TOTR, that'd be one thing. I guess, maybe, just trade connections ASAP will be our first hope.

Peter is close. But 40 turns is quite a while, so I explored a fair bit of the pangea. I'm getting used to the "feel" of standard size a bit. I'd say I walked from near the west end to the east end, while not getting all the way south, except maybe at the very end. I've seen a fair bit of the land. Random water level.

Toku's fortunately far away -- like the far end of the pangea. Sword and fire will work, but it won't be necessary for a while, I believe.

Peter and Fred are quite close. Peter especially. I just hope Toku or somebody else far away founds Buddhism and Judaism.

Arathorn

 

[bihary]

Hi guys

I am a Long time lurker, but this game got me registered. Very interesting concept! Some questions:

What happens if, god forbid, a heathen religion does spread to one of your cities? You cannot destroy your own city... Would it still be possible to have 100% Hinduism in the world then? Also, what is the fate of a foreign city with both the True religion, and with a heathen religion?

I gather from the discussion you do not research techs that would found heathen religions, right?

Do you declare on anyone if he chooses a heathen religion?

Best luck, I will follow this game closely.