LotR24 - French Menagerie

As a long-term lurker:

This is an awesome thread; I learned a lot about city placement and management - also the availability of all UUs teaches a lot about their particular strengths.

Compared to you guys I am really an amateur!

Keep it coming!
 
We have two GP available for a Golden Age, which would last 15 turns since we captured the MoM. I would seriously consider it on the inherited turn. A swap to Nationalism (quite useful if the pending war with Justinian comes about) gives us another couple of Happy faces for the 3-4 turns of the Arab War, so we wouldn't waste as much GA commerce to the lux tax.

I also don't see us having to build many troops to finish our continent, hence Vassalage loses attractiveness. Nationalism also allows us to fill our defensive needs through drafting while using the GA production towards commerce/science buildings. One pop for 165 hammers is a real nice deal.

I would also consider a cease-fire with the Khmer. I think we can break that within 10 turns, and I suppose our troops will be heading E for Sal and staying W for whatever Justinian has on those boats. Sury can wait his turn.

Not sure where we go post-Econ. Assembly Line for Infantry? Democracy for the SoL (real good for our empire size)? Rails/Combustion? Some of those paths surely overlap so we can probably get through the next 20 turns without a firm strategy.
 
Couple of more things I forgot:

York grew last turn and isn't configured for max Hammers on the Versailles build. Worst-case scenario is that we get a super-wealth build out of it.

The Russian Workers we captured two turns ago may be fortified in Yaroslavl'. I think I was waiting to not leave them exposed if the Arab war re-started.
 
Start off by asking 50 gold from Justinian. If we're the target, this buys us 10 turns. If we're not targeted, we're not gonna get a huge diplo penalty for it. Sal has 16 units in the east. We don't have the troops in the area to deal with it, immediately. I'm just not sure which direction to go immediately. And with Justinian occupied, we're not in immediate danger.

I decide against GA on the inherited turn. I want to see how things go a bit. Plus, I'd like to get to Emancipation without anarchy and we're not going to have Democracy in 15 turns. We're more of a CE than an SE, really (even with CS), and that means Emancipation is the way to go. I'm not sure we'll have 3 great people later to trigger yet another GA. We're not desperate at this point. So it can (and must) wait. I think Sury going away first is just as good as Sal going away. And at 36 war weariness points, we can do it.

York set to max hammers and starvation (won't kill any people, but losing food) while building Versailles. I tend to think we'll get cash out of it, but that's OK, too. Culture turned off for now.

It takes 3 turns to get our troops through the cultural borders to attack one of Sury's cities. Meantime, I lost three fights at 75+% and win a couple at >85% on troops Sury dreams of pillaging with. I'm not going to let that happen. Anyway, at Angkor Thom, we bombard at the 85% defense and attack over 23% (no castle) defense and capture the city with no losses.

(Sorry for no pics, for whatever reason, screenshots aren't taking for me right now)

Angkor Wat, home of the Taoist Shrine, is captured on turn 5. Cost a single redcoat. I've lost more troops with minor clean-ups activities in the backlines than in attacking cities. Similar odds, though. I'm building a Taoist Monastery there (once it comes out of revolt), so we can spread it for more shrine income.

Justinian unloaded his troops and they're now wandering around. We're clearly the target. Honestly, though, with the troops on land, I fear them less than when they were on the water. They have to pass through cultural borders or attack one of our cities on the front. Neither option is going to go well for Justinian.

On turn 7, I trade away Liberalism to Gil to get the rest of Constitution (saving 4+ turns) and some gold. Liberalism is reasonably widely known now. I want to get to Democracy, as Universal Sufferage, Emancipation, Nationalism/Free Artistry, Free Religion, Free Market (I guess) is the way I want to go.

All of Sury's cities have castles now. Many are on hills. And our spies absolutely suck waste water, rarely making it even a square into enemy territory before being discovered. We're starting to take casualties, including our difficult-to-replace CR3 redcoats. The other option is interminable bombing, so I'm just pushing ahead. We have reasonable reinforcements from the backlines, though I've switched over most builds to economic stuff (including jails). By turn 10, Sury's down to 3 cities. And one of those is pretty vulnerable, having had several casualties last turn.

I couldn't decide whether to pass off here or not. One the one hand, it's late. And I should let others have this fun. On the other, I've been watching Justinian's troops (they're all in Yakutsk) and that might be an awkward place for a hand-off. Plus, it's a lot of fun attacking with these units.

In the end, I decide to stop after 10. We're in a good position. If we triggered our GA now, we could get to Nationalism and draft (a reasonably good idea) for a few turns, before making final switches, including US and Emancipation. We should also get to work on SoL. And we should decide on a National Park city fairly soon.

I didn't do a final city review, so that can probably be done. We're sitting reasonably safely at this point, however. It's probably not really critical.

When Justinian declares on us, he'll be kicked out. Our frigates in the west should go after his ships, which are back. His units will get kicked out and he'll have to move toward a single city. We can defend that city and watch his troops break or take him in the open field. I'd go for the latter. We're maybe a bit short on troops in the area, but not really, IMO.

War with Sal can happen whenever. I was just waiting to finish off Sury to make sure we had no ww concerns.

Arathorn
 

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It is in the queue.
 
First the simple stuff:

Unfortify workers in Yaroslavl'. Good use for them: Mining the Iron by Medina.

Re-jigger Moscow for Production (3 Settled Instructors) post-FP. We should have enough workers to build Watermills/Workshops to break-even food.

Check MM at Yekaterinburg. City is working a couple of unimproved grass tiles.

We have 6 City Raider-type Redcoats just sitting off the coast of Sal's Southern city. Either use them, or get them off the boats.

Now the hard thing:

We are royally screwing up with regard to the inevitable Justinian war. We are letting Justinian land an enormous Army onto our continent, and his troops will not be kicked back to his continent when the declaration occurs. The reason I advocated declaring on him was that we had local naval superiority and could get 3 or 4:1 kill ratios with each victory on the seas. We chose not to use that superiority and will now have to spend either enormous resources or our armies to defend against his attacks, when previously we only needed 4-5 Frigates to be safe. No boats surviving for him = no naval invasion.

He currently has 14 units on our soil and the visible boats can contain ~15 more. Yes, he's behind us in military tech. But 30 units is a hell of a lot to defend against at a single point.

When Justinian declares war on us, we'll lose at least a city. As it stands, once he declares all of his units will be kicked (hopefully) into Khmer territory, or into neutral territory which could get real ugly as we have a hole in our interior. Even if the war declaration is delayed until after we kill of the Khmer (and have border pops to close the hole in the interior) the troops will be kicked into the N of our continent. One big caveat: I am assuming that troops get kicked to either neutral territory or territory where you have OBs, and that you first have to exhaust all on-continent options prior to leaping continents.

So basically, unless we pull the demand trick again, we have a choice of sending a significant fraction of our army to Yakutsk or losing a city or two. We also need to get non-CR units into Yakutsk as a couple of the Redcoats have promotions that are almost useless in city defense. This could be a colossal mess. Since our army is heavily promoted for city attack, if/when it hits the fan consider evacuating cities so we can use our CR promotions against Justinian, and make his CR promotions useless.
 
We could - and should - close Boarders with Justininan on the inherited turn before the Peace Treaty expires. Thie way we would at least know, where his troops get kicked too.

AFAIK the "demand something" trick does not work twice in row - he will refuse while still in "Can not declare War" state, and he will move at the very same second it expires.
 
I was thinking:

(1) Close Borders with Justinian
(2) Accept Sury as a Vassal
(3) Shift our troops to mirror Justinian's

Having Sury as a Vassal accomplishes a couple of things: We should then have implied OBs and can shift our troops more easily, and it will allow any remaining troops Sury may have to attack Justinian's stack. It will also give Justinian softer targets and I'm not above watching him lose troops capturing Sury's cities, then taking those same cities for ourselves. :mischief: Regardless, once war is declared we have to start sinking boats. Justinian can't get much accomplished with the troops already on our shores and for the most part an amphibious invasion by him is futile.

I'm not sure whether forcing Sury to close borders with Justinian would help or hurt. It won't boot Justinian's boats and I'm really not sure where his troops would go.

It's funny. Justinian is doing exactly what I said we could do when I was questioning the need for a foothold city on the other continent.

I would trip the GA on the inherited IT and change civics to Nationalism, Representation (might as well take some beakers with our free specialists, we're not really using HR anyway), and probably Slavery. We can draft Rifles to man our coasts and we may want to whip another Frigate or two. All we need to accomplish in this war is sinking boats and killing the troops Justinian has already landed. We'll give him his receipt at Infantry/Artillery or Tanks.
 
After reading these comments I am not looking forward to my turn...
 
Well ... It's not that bad. :lol:

Justinian is doing something monumentally stupid and is ruining our fun. He has a hankering for war and of course, logically, the natural target is the 800-lb gorilla on the other continent that is out-teching you, not one of the smaller civs on your own landmass. :rolleyes:

Regardless of how this plays out the damage will be one city, two max, temporarily lost and a cessation of our offensive activities against the Khmer and Arabs. All this really does is force us to turn our offensive stacks around and attack Justy's troops instead of Khmer or Arab cities.

So long as we get fair play from the pRNG in the water the invasion will peter out fairly quickly, since we have Frigates (well-promoted at that) and he doesn't. No transport = phony war.

We will have to defend our E coast as Justinian's vassals could land some annoyances. That can be done primarily through the draft. We're still the only ones with Rifling so amphibious assaults = suicide for the AI.
 
We should be fine, even if he does land a total of 30 troops. They will have to walk through our territory, giving up plenty of time to adjust our troops to meet the threat (and/or meet it in the field). We have two border pops at most places and that's a couple turns walking.

If we do vassalize Sury (not a bad plan), we can probably do Sal and the Byzantines at the same time, as the forces in the east will be enough at this point. And after Sal's gone, we can spread them out to defend against possible vassal invasion.

Arathorn
 
1575 AD
(IT) Justinian declares, and the game crashes. :mad:
Reload, and one again:



I don't know what is going on, but I am going to suggest a swap. Maybe the next player will do something different during the IT and the game can continue.
 
I was able to load it up and continue on the next turn (though, with my limited actions, Justinian didn't actually declare on us in the IT). I really shouldn't play next. And I would probably act differently if I were playing for real instead of just checking out things.

For now, let's act like there's a swap and try

Roster:
LKendter -- on deck
Jabah -- UP NOW
Refar
T_McC
Arathorn

and see if that resolves things. If we keep having crashes....well, we'll drown in that creek if/when we come to it.

Arathorn

Edit: I tried again a second time, doing things differently. Justinian declared (as did the rest of the world, it seems) and no crash. I don't know why Lee's having the crash problem, but it doesn't seem to be reproducible, so I think we'll be fine with Jabah just going ahead.
 
I think I just realized a possible cause. If you look at the various ship displays in the city build screen, one of them has random garbage after it. I wonder if we have a bad entry in the module and the war generated the first combat with this bad module.

I'm at work right now, so I can't put up a screen shot showing this issue.
 
LK, do you want to check that and play your turn (if it works)?
I am not sure I could play tonight, so it is very fine with me to have my turn later in the week.

Jabah
 
LK, do you want to check that and play your turn (if it works)?

Arathorn would need to check this, since he created the mod.

I don't want to attempt my turn again without seeing this odd display issue fixed. It may be a clue to the problem. Something may be wrong with a ship definition. Being a programmer I've learned to investigate anything wrong, as it often fixes other issues.
 
I'll be happy to investigate further (can't now, as I'm at work). I didn't see any odd displays. Can you point it out, Lee? You might want to re-download the save, as it's a possible corruption at that point, as I couldn't reproduce any problems last night.

Arathorn
 
I'll be happy to investigate further (can't now, as I'm at work). I didn't see any odd displays. Can you point it out, Lee? You might want to re-download the save, as it's a possible corruption at that point, as I couldn't reproduce any problems last night.

Arathorn

Bring up the city build screen, and move the cursor over the ships. One of the ships to be built has some junk characters after it.
If you still can't find it, let me know and I will put a picture of it up tonight.

As for downloading the save again I don't think it will help. I think the issue is with the mod.
 
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