LotR7 -- Passive Culturalists
- Thread starter Arathorn
- Start date
1630
Clean up a bit the south beachhead with Cavs.
We get attacked by Chinese Modern Armour
We lose New Ashur in the West.
We get a Great Leader in the North while defending. Coming out of anarchy I enter Monarchy, after
reassigning all citizens we make +3gpt on a lone scientist with no lux tax
Found New Eridu by Beachhead on the Oil, pillage surroundings to increase move points needed by Chinese.
Many battleships around our galleons and there is nothing I can do...
1635 : We lose 2 galleons. We lose New Ellipi in the south.
We lose New Akkad
However in the North no attack on our forces.
1640: Tons of MA show up, we lose New Eridu and our Infantry army and a big stack of Explorers.
We also lose a few galleons. Regrouping in the north, redlining most attackers.
1645 : Propagand upsets citizens in Zamua. We are losing our beachead very fast now, the Chinese brought
maybe 100 mech infs (they have 250 total) to slowly kill our unit: we lose all improvements, a radio tower
a stack of Arties,
1650: New Nineveh falls but Beachhead holds by just 2 cavs !
We get Motorized Transport and reach Modern Age : we draw Fission
Shouting insults, banging the computer, waking up and scaring the babies by that time I attempt to steal
from the Chinese, desperate is desperate I go for immediate and succceed !
We have Computers.
Ok I pretty much lost the game for us in that turn so I want to hold on to that bit of luck we got at this time
I hand over to Gothmog in order for him to perform his usual magic and save the situation, we still have 1800 or so
to perform much needed upgrades.
All units have movement, it s the start of the game.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HammerOnThem-1650_AD.zip
I am away for one week ! See you then...I hope
Clean up a bit the south beachhead with Cavs.
We get attacked by Chinese Modern Armour
We lose New Ashur in the West.We get a Great Leader in the North while defending. Coming out of anarchy I enter Monarchy, after
reassigning all citizens we make +3gpt on a lone scientist with no lux tax
Found New Eridu by Beachhead on the Oil, pillage surroundings to increase move points needed by Chinese.
Many battleships around our galleons and there is nothing I can do...
1635 : We lose 2 galleons. We lose New Ellipi in the south.
We lose New Akkad
However in the North no attack on our forces.
1640: Tons of MA show up, we lose New Eridu and our Infantry army and a big stack of Explorers.
We also lose a few galleons. Regrouping in the north, redlining most attackers.
1645 : Propagand upsets citizens in Zamua. We are losing our beachead very fast now, the Chinese brought
maybe 100 mech infs (they have 250 total) to slowly kill our unit: we lose all improvements, a radio tower
a stack of Arties,
1650: New Nineveh falls but Beachhead holds by just 2 cavs !
We get Motorized Transport and reach Modern Age : we draw Fission
Shouting insults, banging the computer, waking up and scaring the babies by that time I attempt to steal
from the Chinese, desperate is desperate I go for immediate and succceed !
We have Computers.
Ok I pretty much lost the game for us in that turn so I want to hold on to that bit of luck we got at this time
I hand over to Gothmog in order for him to perform his usual magic and save the situation, we still have 1800 or so
to perform much needed upgrades.
All units have movement, it s the start of the game.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/HammerOnThem-1650_AD.zip
I am away for one week ! See you then...I hope
Food poisoning with little ones. Been there. Done that. Took quite a while to recover...and even longer before either of us had time/energy to do anything fun like game again. My sympathies.
I already claimed LotR8a and that will probably take up tonight. If I can get to this one, too, tonight, or Tuesday, I'll play. Else, we'll go with the regular order.
A big "THANKS" to Gothmog for making the effort to get on-line to post to let us know what's happening. With knowledge (for me at least) comes patience and an ability to work with the situation. We'll get it all figured out.
Not, of course, that pulling a miracle out of a hat against hundreds of MA and MI is a feat that is easy to figure out.... Skyfish's report looks pretty bleak.
ONWARD AND UPWARD, though!
Arathorn
I already claimed LotR8a and that will probably take up tonight. If I can get to this one, too, tonight, or Tuesday, I'll play. Else, we'll go with the regular order.
A big "THANKS" to Gothmog for making the effort to get on-line to post to let us know what's happening. With knowledge (for me at least) comes patience and an ability to work with the situation. We'll get it all figured out.
Not, of course, that pulling a miracle out of a hat against hundreds of MA and MI is a feat that is easy to figure out.... Skyfish's report looks pretty bleak.
ONWARD AND UPWARD, though!
Arathorn
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,352
OK, we've recovered enough. I've got it and will play at least a bit tonight.
Thinking about this game we really need a bunch of armies. So far my luck has been bad - no flips or leaders on my turns. Hopefully things will change.
armies armies Ommmmmmmmm.......
Thinking about this game we really need a bunch of armies. So far my luck has been bad - no flips or leaders on my turns. Hopefully things will change.
armies armies Ommmmmmmmm.......
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,352
Well... no flips or leaders and we lost Beachhead. But we have Oil and MI.
Preturn: We still have Beachhead, but that is our only hold on the continent and there are only 2 cav in it. We have no armies. I swap Samara to the Heroic Epic and Ashur to the Military Acadamy. We need Oil, luckily we can renegotiate a deal with Rome where we were giving him 104gpt+Coal for peace. We could deal with the Viks too but they don't need our coal. So I get Oil for Coal+140gpt. No harbor or barracks in Beachhead so no upgrades possible there, nor can we expect any next turn due to logistics. I move every possible unit into beachhead (except two that I leave on the radar tower), I also move our units on the hills towards beachhead as Decoys. I put a galley with 4 infantry in position to offload in beachhead next turn. I use a cav, our three explorers, and available arti to cut rail line to beachhead so that MA can't attack us from anywhere in china. Here is a before and after picture:
I press enter with crossed fingers. Beachhead gets pounded by bombardment, not clear where that is coming from, it loses all 4 of its buildings - including walls. The decoys save beach head as roughly 40 MA and 30 MI attack our forces, including 4 armies. Beach head survives with 4 infantry and 2 cav.
Next turn I offload the 4 infantry, I now have 8 MI ready to land in beach head next turn.
(IT) - we lose beachhead.
I call off the suicide transport.
Heroic Epic comes in.
I have been piling units into Tell Wilaya, we need to put a big load of MI onto a mountain. Then more MI with some arti and a settler or two. If we can just get a few MI armies we could potentially do some damage to China. Even if we don't win this one I would like to wipe the smug smile off of Mao's face.
Here is the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LotR7-1675AD.zip
Preturn: We still have Beachhead, but that is our only hold on the continent and there are only 2 cav in it. We have no armies. I swap Samara to the Heroic Epic and Ashur to the Military Acadamy. We need Oil, luckily we can renegotiate a deal with Rome where we were giving him 104gpt+Coal for peace. We could deal with the Viks too but they don't need our coal. So I get Oil for Coal+140gpt. No harbor or barracks in Beachhead so no upgrades possible there, nor can we expect any next turn due to logistics. I move every possible unit into beachhead (except two that I leave on the radar tower), I also move our units on the hills towards beachhead as Decoys. I put a galley with 4 infantry in position to offload in beachhead next turn. I use a cav, our three explorers, and available arti to cut rail line to beachhead so that MA can't attack us from anywhere in china. Here is a before and after picture:
I press enter with crossed fingers. Beachhead gets pounded by bombardment, not clear where that is coming from, it loses all 4 of its buildings - including walls. The decoys save beach head as roughly 40 MA and 30 MI attack our forces, including 4 armies. Beach head survives with 4 infantry and 2 cav.
Next turn I offload the 4 infantry, I now have 8 MI ready to land in beach head next turn.
(IT) - we lose beachhead.
I call off the suicide transport.
Heroic Epic comes in.
I have been piling units into Tell Wilaya, we need to put a big load of MI onto a mountain. Then more MI with some arti and a settler or two. If we can just get a few MI armies we could potentially do some damage to China. Even if we don't win this one I would like to wipe the smug smile off of Mao's face.
Here is the save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LotR7-1675AD.zip
I got it.
We've seen first-hand the last couple games the difficulty of establishing secure beachheads against modern deity foe(s). I don't see anything less than 100 troops surviving. It's gonna be pretty ugly, I'm afraid. I'll see what I can do, though.
Arathorn
We've seen first-hand the last couple games the difficulty of establishing secure beachheads against modern deity foe(s). I don't see anything less than 100 troops surviving. It's gonna be pretty ugly, I'm afraid. I'll see what I can do, though.
Arathorn
OK. I spent a fair bit assessing our game. As passed to me, we're in monarchy, with minimal troops, no foothold on the Chinese continent, oil for a few (17ish) turns in a big deal with Rome, a military alliance with Rome against China that we're paying 85 gpt for, and less culture than China. On the plus side, we're over 70k culture, which is a new high for me.
We have basically no navy and essentially zero chance of making any kind of a beachhead with our current forces. Sux big-time to be us.
Well, on the plus side, our rep is completely trashed, so signing peace with China for a few gold pieces (he actually paid us!) and breaking our treaty with Rome doesn't even cause me to blink hard. That's 85 gpt. We're still hurting a bit for cash, so I revolt. Not much else to do in 1675.
1680 sees the re-dawn of the Babylonian Democracy. I estimate we're gonna need 100 artillery, 100 MI, and a few other assorted troops (like a few dozen tanks) to make a reasonable dent on the Chinese mainland. We're at ... 13 artillery, 29 MI, and no assorted. OK, lots of troops to build. Sort off shields and divy up the cities as makes most sense. We only have one city clearing 55 spt -- OUCH! Small cities, I guess.
Mobilize? No way! Cuts culture production, which we're still gonna need, even though we have essentially no chance left in this game. I'm planning on going down FIGHTING!
Turns drag on. Rally point is set to Zamua and forces start to trickle in. Workers finish major jobs and are set to shift-A auto-work, and most disappear into cities. Time passes.
After the 1690 turn, I got a message I'd never seen before. China successfully found and captured our spy! I didn't know that code even worked! Live and learn, I guess. But now we've no clue of the size of the Chinese army.
Tick-tock...1715 already? And the Chinese spy strikes again, sabotaging production in Adab. Why? I've no idea. Back to yawning.
1725 and we have 30 artillery, 56 MI, 9 tanks, and 14 transports (>25 will be needed eventually). That's a start. By about the end of Bam-Bam's turn, we might be close to thinking about starting to consider China, but it will probably be the end of Skyfish's turn before we're really close to ready. I expect to lose to a launch before then, but that's the only plan I can see with a semblance of a chance of working.
I rushed a bunch of transports as we really have no coastal cities with good production.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr7-1725ad.zip
JMB -- UP NOW
Bam-Bam -- ON DECK
Skyfish -- back Nov. 3
Gothmog
Arathorn
Good luck!
Arathorn
P.S. Trying to plant a spy in China will almost assuredly result in having war declared on us and our shores bombarded. I don't think we need that kind of grief.
We have basically no navy and essentially zero chance of making any kind of a beachhead with our current forces. Sux big-time to be us.
Well, on the plus side, our rep is completely trashed, so signing peace with China for a few gold pieces (he actually paid us!) and breaking our treaty with Rome doesn't even cause me to blink hard. That's 85 gpt. We're still hurting a bit for cash, so I revolt. Not much else to do in 1675.
1680 sees the re-dawn of the Babylonian Democracy. I estimate we're gonna need 100 artillery, 100 MI, and a few other assorted troops (like a few dozen tanks) to make a reasonable dent on the Chinese mainland. We're at ... 13 artillery, 29 MI, and no assorted. OK, lots of troops to build. Sort off shields and divy up the cities as makes most sense. We only have one city clearing 55 spt -- OUCH! Small cities, I guess.
Mobilize? No way! Cuts culture production, which we're still gonna need, even though we have essentially no chance left in this game. I'm planning on going down FIGHTING!
Turns drag on. Rally point is set to Zamua and forces start to trickle in. Workers finish major jobs and are set to shift-A auto-work, and most disappear into cities. Time passes.
After the 1690 turn, I got a message I'd never seen before. China successfully found and captured our spy! I didn't know that code even worked! Live and learn, I guess. But now we've no clue of the size of the Chinese army.
Tick-tock...1715 already? And the Chinese spy strikes again, sabotaging production in Adab. Why? I've no idea. Back to yawning.
1725 and we have 30 artillery, 56 MI, 9 tanks, and 14 transports (>25 will be needed eventually). That's a start. By about the end of Bam-Bam's turn, we might be close to thinking about starting to consider China, but it will probably be the end of Skyfish's turn before we're really close to ready. I expect to lose to a launch before then, but that's the only plan I can see with a semblance of a chance of working.
I rushed a bunch of transports as we really have no coastal cities with good production.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/lotr7-1725ad.zip
JMB -- UP NOW
Bam-Bam -- ON DECK
Skyfish -- back Nov. 3
Gothmog
Arathorn
Good luck!
Arathorn
P.S. Trying to plant a spy in China will almost assuredly result in having war declared on us and our shores bombarded. I don't think we need that kind of grief.
Early: Renegotiate lux deal with Ragnar, saving us 16 gpt. Notice that everyone has Modern Armors...
Middle: Ragnar demands our TM and 100 gold. I give it to him. You know, it is really stupid that you can't pass through the same tile as an enemy submarine (without declaring war) when you "don't know" that they are there... I attempt to purchase Ecology off of Caesar when we renegotiate our peace treaty, but it'd cost us over 600 gpt. It should be much cheaper to steal the techs; I'll let the next leader make the decision (input from anyone else would also be appreciated...) whether or not to attempt stealing a tech from either Ragnar or Caesar. Caesar demands our TM and 100 gold. We pay him as we'd be completely screwed if he decided to attack us...
Late: Well, our military might is weak compared to all of our neighbors... Total culture 85125 and counting. It does look like we are about even with China wrt culture though...
In 1760 AD, China begins the Internet and launches their space ship. HammerOnThem the Great suffers an embarrassing defeat! China's score was 7314, Rome's was 3245, Scandanvia's was 3031, and ours was 2800 (I had a screenshot of our defeat, but lost it pasting something else into the turn log and didn't want to replay the final turn...)
If anyone is interested, here's the last autosave: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR7PC1758AD.zip
This was quite a tough variant and didn't look good right from the start... We did reasonably well all things considered though. Thanks for letting me play!
JMB
Middle: Ragnar demands our TM and 100 gold. I give it to him. You know, it is really stupid that you can't pass through the same tile as an enemy submarine (without declaring war) when you "don't know" that they are there... I attempt to purchase Ecology off of Caesar when we renegotiate our peace treaty, but it'd cost us over 600 gpt. It should be much cheaper to steal the techs; I'll let the next leader make the decision (input from anyone else would also be appreciated...) whether or not to attempt stealing a tech from either Ragnar or Caesar. Caesar demands our TM and 100 gold. We pay him as we'd be completely screwed if he decided to attack us...
Late: Well, our military might is weak compared to all of our neighbors... Total culture 85125 and counting. It does look like we are about even with China wrt culture though...
In 1760 AD, China begins the Internet and launches their space ship. HammerOnThem the Great suffers an embarrassing defeat! China's score was 7314, Rome's was 3245, Scandanvia's was 3031, and ours was 2800 (I had a screenshot of our defeat, but lost it pasting something else into the turn log and didn't want to replay the final turn...)
If anyone is interested, here's the last autosave: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads5/LOTR7PC1758AD.zip
This was quite a tough variant and didn't look good right from the start... We did reasonably well all things considered though. Thanks for letting me play!
JMB
Bam-Bam
Hammerhead
Ouch. I was guessing that we were going to see a lauch either on your turns or mine.
Tough varient--one of those trademark AMIMVs (Arathorn Massively Insane Masochistic Varients). We did well...the massive piles of jungle and losing our gpt rep made it even tougher. Looking forward to the next AMIMV in LotR10.
Tough varient--one of those trademark AMIMVs (Arathorn Massively Insane Masochistic Varients). We did well...the massive piles of jungle and losing our gpt rep made it even tougher. Looking forward to the next AMIMV in LotR10.
Bummer. I'd hoped to at least reach 100K culture, even if it wasn't enough for a win.
I blame all the chumps on China's continent that couldn't contain Mao -- Lincoln, Temujin, and Elizabeth. They're ones primarily at fault here! We had zero chance of dealing with a run-away AI civ. I felt, once we had a worldwide coalition against Mao and he was winning, that our chances were near-zero.
Well-played through the critical early stages -- and not quite as well played (IMO) at the end [which, for this group still means good enough to beat deity pretty handily], but it didn't really matter once Mao became too monstrous.
I like the idea of this, but I'm not sure how/what to do next with it. LotR cultural games will be on hold for a while, with LotR10 and LotR11 going into full swing relatively soon -- and plans for LotR12 and beyond. And, yes, they are probably AMIMVs!
[BTW, does an OCC AW game (LotR 9) count as an AMIMV?]
Good things about this game:
- Flips to us (even with >15 units in the cities, when I investigated old save files out of curiousity) on deity -- not a frequent occurrence for me
- Fun landgrab into every nook and cranny
What could we have done differently?
- Researched full-bore and tried to get some monopoly techs, to sell for big gpt -- try to beat the AIs at their own game and use our library/university investments
- Gotten luckier
- ??? Tried an easier variant?
Thanks to everybody who played -- and especially to those insane enough to join up with me again!
Arathorn
I blame all the chumps on China's continent that couldn't contain Mao -- Lincoln, Temujin, and Elizabeth. They're ones primarily at fault here! We had zero chance of dealing with a run-away AI civ. I felt, once we had a worldwide coalition against Mao and he was winning, that our chances were near-zero.
Well-played through the critical early stages -- and not quite as well played (IMO) at the end [which, for this group still means good enough to beat deity pretty handily], but it didn't really matter once Mao became too monstrous.
I like the idea of this, but I'm not sure how/what to do next with it. LotR cultural games will be on hold for a while, with LotR10 and LotR11 going into full swing relatively soon -- and plans for LotR12 and beyond. And, yes, they are probably AMIMVs!
[BTW, does an OCC AW game (LotR 9) count as an AMIMV?]Good things about this game:
- Flips to us (even with >15 units in the cities, when I investigated old save files out of curiousity) on deity -- not a frequent occurrence for me
- Fun landgrab into every nook and cranny
What could we have done differently?
- Researched full-bore and tried to get some monopoly techs, to sell for big gpt -- try to beat the AIs at their own game and use our library/university investments
- Gotten luckier
- ??? Tried an easier variant?
Thanks to everybody who played -- and especially to those insane enough to join up with me again!
Arathorn
Gothmog
Dread Enforcer
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2002
- Messages
- 3,352
We'll get back to this variant, I think we had quite a bad start and obviously the 'chumps' on China's continent played a roll. Thanks to everyone involved, I really enjoyed the early builder part of the game. And poaching every possible city site on the map. It may be that if you have good culture the AI doesn't mind aggressive settlements as much, or that the culture outweighs the aggressive settlement, or even that aggressive settlements have never been a major factor.
I think we might have been better off to have gone after at least one of the civ's on our continent if not both. China was already thumping the civ's on its continent before we got into the action and we know how bad the AI is at naval invasion. Getting Rome and the Viks into the war against China did almost nothing. We might have been better off to try our luck against one of the civ's on our continent with the help of the other. I thought as much at the time but the decision was made before I could give input.
I think we might have been better off to have gone after at least one of the civ's on our continent if not both. China was already thumping the civ's on its continent before we got into the action and we know how bad the AI is at naval invasion. Getting Rome and the Viks into the war against China did almost nothing. We might have been better off to try our luck against one of the civ's on our continent with the help of the other. I thought as much at the time but the decision was made before I could give input.
