Lying-flatism

You should definitely believe that some work is harder than other work.

And yes, it usually pays less the harder it is. That's part of what's hard about it. Yes, enforced in part by status and social connections.

There are exceptions. Cancer-ward nurses get paid alright. That's hard, "cycling" your patients at that rate. Nursing home nurses, too. Not quite as high on the pay there, probably at least in the same quadrant of hard. Bonus time question though, in what ways are those positions harder than being a nursing home CNA? Access to the time, resources, and ability to attend more schooling in advance. Right? Human toll any lighter? Stress level, maybe. Hours worked, perhaps, but nurses usually are default screwed on that in entirety to begin with. Just like having livestock but harder.
 
Last edited:
As opposed to the west, a perfect meritocracy where nobody ever toils their whole life on minimum wage and never escapes it despite working hard or gets gifted everything in life for minimal effort because of who their parents are.
The west is a mess but I'd rather live here than China

It's a Chinese cultural phenomenon so he's talking about China.

Is it not good to point out Russia shouldn't invade their neighbors as an American just because we do it all the time?
Why is it that the people who talk about free enterprise encouraging hard work always have a job like "making videos on Youtube" and not "meat-packing-plant lineworker" or "fruit picker" or "sex worker" or even "custodian"
Wut? If a fruit picker was talking about it on YouTube he'd also be a YouTuber.

Why do we always hear from people who's job it is to hear from them?? :hmm:

You're free to go interview fruit pickers.

There are plenty documentaries about meat packing plant workers and sex workers.

Because most folks who post videos are selling something, even it if it just themselves.
Everyone selling something whether they spout off, mostly its just ego gratification they're seeking, some people manage to make a living at it, which I think is cool even if I don't like them personally. Back in the day there was only corporate media or if you were lucky you could get a public access slot.
 
Last edited:
Ruling class doesn't care as long as these people still playing the game. Lying flat types aren't gonna be willing to put in the effort to be overly countercultural
nothing i said requires any "counter-cultural" effort, or any special effort whatsoever. less people and less productivity are predictable outcomes of "lying flat" if it happens at scale, and the ruling class won't like that. we are already observing this with a push by the chinese government offering incentives against it. they wouldn't be doing that if they didn't care about it. they also don't care about it out of the goodness of their hearts, obviously. it's a bad thing for the ruling class, so they will act to prevent too many people doing it.
My definition of hard is burdensome. If love is a burden resentment is inevitable.
effortful/burdensome tasks or responsibilities do not "inevitably" create resentment. people even deliberately seek those out, for things they value. similarly you criticize the use of the word "sacrifice" but more or less say the same thing using different words. choices come at the exclusion of other choices using the same time spent etc. we agree on "enjoy the game or don't play it" though. what's torture for one person is something another greatly enjoys when it comes to some tradeoffs.

people draw their lines at different points. policy may or may not shift the line enough to make a difference, depending on the person.
I don't think people in the more enlightened parts of the West, where the number of hours people work are regulated, where it's customary to stop work at the end of the stipulated work day, can really claim to be "lying flat". Yes, what you literally do may be the same, but the reasons are entirely different. You do it because that's more or less the norm there, an established tradition, a core part of your extant hegemonic culture.
no, this behavior is very much new to the "modern" version of the west as well, at least if considered at scale. the living conditions are better, but this behavior is no "established tradition". this behavior wasn't known or apparent at scale in the 1990s or 2000s to my knowledge. it's the first time usa has shown signs of it, and hasn't been prevalent in the west for quite a few generations. that's not what an "established tradition" looks like.

i'm not even convinced the reasons are that that different. at the end of the day, a higher % of the population is deciding the juice isn't worth the squeeze, that additional effort won't bring any reward they care about enough to actually do said additional effort. the factors that go into that evaluation are different like you say, but that people are doing that evaluation and arriving at a similar conclusion seems to be consistent.
Don't. Appropriate. Others'. Resistance. Efforts.
lol. who is going to stop that? you? what does it even mean to "appropriate" in this context? what, precisely, is being "resisted"?

maybe some people are acting this way in protest, but i don't think that's actually true as a whole. it's not like people are "lying flat" with some ultimatum for a specific policy change that will make them turn around and immediately stop "lying flat" once their conditions are met. best as i can tell, this sort of behavior seems less structured and more of a symptom of broken incentives than it is an open/deliberate protest of those incentives.
After reading article in the OP, this immediately springs to mind:
i'm not sure it's even that young. people follow their incentives, and history has had broken incentive structures where being a productive citizen + having children was too costly/unappealing to the average person before. it looks different between times and cultures, but as i mentioned above i think the most basic processes are the same; more people than is sustainable decide that working beyond a certain point isn't worth it, so they don't.

aside from altering incentives + especially removing disincentives, i don't think the course changes.
 
"Tune in. Turn on. Drop out." Mantra from the 60s.
 
"Tune in. Turn on. Drop out." Mantra from the 60s.
Yeah cuz they were dumb & on acid. Turns out when buying a cabin in the woods with a few friends & some girls you barely know thinking you can grow enough veggies & pot to survive once you have an oppsie-baby doesn't usually turn out. Bunch of those same schmucks probably voted for Reagan 15 years later.
 
Top Bottom