Man-at-Arms has no cultural variations

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Unless you’re talking about post WWI (and I assume you aren’t, since this thread is about Men-At-Arms), this is just flat out wrong. Pre-WWI, basically everyone had a local take on military uniform.

Here, have a nice painting of the Battle of Adwa. Notice the cannoneers. Also lmao at that one guy in the bottom left with a pistol while being shaded by servants.

Spoiler :

It happened some years AFTER Siamese capaigns AGAINST Haw Marauders in what's now Laos, in 1870s-1880s

Also Qing Army that temporarily raised to suppress Taiping Rebellion

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Just to show what can be done in a single Era with a single troop type: Musketmen (arquebusiers) . Illustrations by Ian Heath from George Gush's Renaissance Armies 1480 - 1650

These are Persian musketeers/arquebusiers from the late Renaissance - variety of headgear, very "WWI" looking puttees, cloth pouches for ammunition instead of the European-style bandoliers

Indian/Moghul musketeer in multi-colored turban, green coat, white blanket roll over his shoulder. The man next to him is a dismounted Moghul heavy cavalryman, the mounted figure the Moghul/Indian version of a European Renaissance Cuirassier or Gens d'armes. Try putting that intricate detail of his coat and saddlecloth on an in-game Unit!

Balkan musketeers/arquebusiers: note the variety of "uniforms" in just this one area of the outskirts of western Europe! Their costumes, in fact, are a mixture of Medieval and Renaissance 'styles'

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Right... 'cause intensive research is much less expensive than creative license. o_O

The most expensive thing in the long run is to produce game, book, or other piece of 'art' that Doesn't Sell. Then it becomes a complete Loss. Relying on Creative License may work for a book of fantasy (in fact, one could say it is a Requirement there) but is slippery grounds for a supposedly even vaguely historically-based game . . .

 

[Kwami]

The most expensive thing in the long run is to produce game, book, or other piece of 'art' that Doesn't Sell. Then it becomes a complete Loss. Relying on Creative License may work for a book of fantasy (in fact, one could say it is a Requirement there) but is slippery grounds for a supposedly even vaguely historically-based game . . .

Is it, though? Paradox games seem to do well, despite their ridiculously odd looking units. And Civ VI is doing just fine, despite a lack of variation for some units. I just don't think that most players care much about the unit models. They play zoomed out with animations turned off and don't worry about it.

 

[Zaarin]

Personally I don't mind some creative license taken in imagining what later Aztec units might look like and so forth. The alternative is assuming inevitable Westernization--like Civ3's modern era leaders in suits or Civ6's modern Aztec civilians with Spanish names. I'm not fond of that in a game that's supposed to be about "what-if."

 

[Prometheus23]

True, but still really sad that with all the company resources extra models or even different coloring can't be created. probably all about budgets and the $$$$.

 

[FinalDoomsday]

Korean 'Halberdiers' and 'Arquebusiers' in Humankind

I know its not essential but seeing those distinctive Joeseon helmets really helps me feel like I'm seeing the culture I selected. You can argue it doesnt matter and I'm sure for some it does not but for me video games are a visual medium. What I love about turn based games is I can stop and zoom in and admire all the details of the settlements, wonders and landscapes without my base getting blown up. Civ does this brilliantly in many ways that the unit variation feels a bit of a let down.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Is it, though? Paradox games seem to do well, despite their ridiculously odd looking units. And Civ VI is doing just fine, despite a lack of variation for some units. I just don't think that most players care much about the unit models. They play zoomed out with animations turned off and don't worry about it.

But computer games, like miniatures, are a very Visual activity. If not, then there would be no reason to invest in any computer graphics at all - you could market a real "board game on screen' and save oodles of development time and effort. But the visuals do matter, so gobs of cash and resources are invested in graphic art, animation, and rendering.

Then it is a relatively small cost comparatively to do the research to Get It Right.

 

[Kwami]

But computer games, like miniatures, are a very Visual activity. If not, then there would be no reason to invest in any computer graphics at all - you could market a real "board game on screen' and save oodles of development time and effort. But the visuals do matter, so gobs of cash and resources are invested in graphic art, animation, and rendering.

Then it is a relatively small cost comparatively to do the research to Get It Right.

It's not a small cost, though. Art is often the most expensive part of the game. Making historically correct art is even more challenging and expensive. Amplitude was able to do this a bit better because they don't have to worry about medieval USA or modern age Aztecs. Also, they didn't invest as much into designing leaders, native-language voice actors, and from what I've heard so far, music. There's music, sure, but... Eh.

I'm not saying that Firaxis shouldn't invest into unit models. I do like them! I'm just saying that it's probably not a super high priority and that they seem to do just fine without them, as do others.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

It's not a small cost, though. Art is often the most expensive part of the game. Making historically correct art is even more challenging and expensive. Amplitude was able to do this a bit better because they don't have to worry about medieval USA or modern age Aztecs. Also, they didn't invest as much into designing leaders, native-language voice actors, and from what I've heard so far, music. There's music, sure, but... Eh.

I'm not saying that Firaxis shouldn't invest into unit models. I do like them! I'm just saying that it's probably not a super high priority and that they seem to do just fine without them, as do others.

Making animated 3-D art is certainly very expensive. Doing the research to get the subject of the art reasonably correct is not the expensive part, though. I was a consultant for a firm doing World War Two historical art for a gaming project, and I can assure you they spent a lot more on the artists (and their computers) than they did on the consultants!

My point remains valid: IF you are going to have to spend money on 3D animated graphics - and to be competitive in modern computer gaming, you don't really have a lot of choice in that - it doesn't cost a whole lot more to get the historical or semi-historical subjects correct.

 

[Vityviktor]

I'm more on TWO-COLOR tintings there should be 'Primary' and 'Secondary' tints possible on one unit model.
Actually MAA armor is quite OFF to me.

BTW These are ethnical variations comes from my mod project. also called Man At Arms. I've finished it BY THE DAY APRIL PATCH UPDATE IS.
View attachment 595216View attachment 595214
^ Generic (European) and African MAA

View attachment 595215View attachment 595217
^ Asian and Mediterranean MAA. BOTH are Greatswordsmen.
View attachment 595218
^ South American 'Heavy Jaguar Warrior' MAA with Pacachuti Great Axe.

They look beautiful! Could you upload them in a standalone mod as Men-at-arms ethnic variants?

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ A little cutie mod comprised solely of MAA with so many ethnical variations? OK but it'll be abit large.

Actually i'm working on a bigger mod that included this unit.

 

[Vityviktor]

^ A little cutie mod comprised solely of MAA with so many ethnical variations? OK but it'll be abit large.

Actually i'm working on a bigger mod that included this unit.

Awesome! Please, let us know when any of these two mods (the bigger and the smaller-only-men-at-arms) are ready!

 

[PiR]

This thread and the level of attention given to these aspects of the game is fascinating to me. I don't know many gamer communities, but I doubt many have such passionates debates on historical representation.

For those interested, we have a challenge to show our most historical game in this thread.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Awesome! Please, let us know when any of these two mods (the bigger and the smaller-only-men-at-arms) are ready!

A little mod (Localized Knights and MAA) is released. get yours now!

https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/localized-knight-man-at-arms.28898/