Managing Jungle Starts

[salty mud]

Some of the problems of a jungle start include unhealthy cities, having to wait until Iron Working to build improvements, scarcity of resources (especially food) and no production benefit from chopping the jungle down. What's more, the resources that are typically found in jungles (dyes, sugar etc) aren't even that good.

What's the strategy for coping with jungle areas? Short of regenerating the map?

 

[rah]

Well your capital can still be ok. And due to no jungle or desert in your fat cross you can get some combos that you normally don't see, like plains incense. Since it's usually a band, I just settle north or south and don't worry about east and west until I get iron or the AI clears it for me.
Letting the AI do it is usually the preferred for me. Let them be slowed down by it.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Gems, pigs, bananas, spices, ivory, rice, sugar, spices, dyes... all green...
... resources found in the jungle are among the best in the game.

Which is more, on certain templates, they spawn in very high density.

There are a few things one can do to take advantage of what can be an overwhelming amount of luxury :
- get Alphabet quick (one way or another) to trade for Iron Working ;
- self-research Iron Working early if there are enough Gems nearby to justify it ;
- get extra workers, compared with non-jungle maps ;
- farm the first few tiles to allow cities to grow ;
- whip infrastructure in cities, so they don't need to work jungle tiles ;
- overlap cities more than usual, so improved tiles can be worked at all times.

Consider this :
Given enough health (fresh water, trade route), a city doesn't necessarily need more than 3 improved tiles to set up Granary, Library and Forge. Size 4 is also a good size to whip workers.
Whipping an item from size 4 to 2 frees up a tile for another city to work with, growing from 3 to 4 and then whipping.
With enough workers out, cities can gradually grow to higher sizes.

 

[salty mud]

I must just be unlucky. Usually when I look at jungles, I see vast spaces with nothing, save the occasional banana or dye dotted around. "Very high density" is something I have yet to see!

Useful tips so far though, thanks for sharing.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

It does happen that there is a large chunk of jungle without any rivers, nor resources.
Those areas are to be avoided.

However, most jungle areas are rather rich.

First screen is on Hemispheres, next ones on Fractal. Temperate climate :

Spoiler :

Doesn't look bad to me.

I searched for a poor jungle area over 5-6 regens and couldn't find any
I think it happens more on Fractal than on other types of maps, however. The 0-river area, especially, does happen.

 

[aitkensam]

The extra workers comment is really key. Having too few workers really hurts when jungle needs chopping.

 

[Pangaea]

The extra workers comment is really key. Having too few workers really hurts when jungle needs chopping.

This. You need more workers to clear the land. The good news is that underneath all that jungle is juicy grassland.

Jungle is also a fine area to place a National Park.

 

[Kallikrates]

You need more workers and iron working ASAP (I agree that alpha is often the best option because the AI goes quickly for IW and will usually trade it) As many jungle resources come in "groups", one can sometimes settle on top of them to unlock them earlier, even before chopping away the jungle. Camps for ivory can be build before IW.
Jungle at least has potential compared to desert, tundra, plains.

 

[GreatProfit]

The good news is that underneath all that jungle is juicy grassland.

Yes; this is what makes those extra workers pay off - lots of grassland cottages to go with the dyes and gems, making lots of good commerce-oriented cities.

 

[Tristan_C]

If you really start in the middle of the jungle, your capital area is still auto-cleared. You get about 40 tiles of green land, good chances on happy resources, a spattering of hills, and probably a river. 3 cities before alpha/IW should be within reach. These starts seem better than average tbh. Plains are just ugh.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Depending on the land layout and/or how many cities you settle,
You may not need to invest into extra workers.

Just producing the workers earlier may be enough. Going Worker --> Settler instead of Settler --> Worker grants you something like 8 additional worker turns, enough to clear two jungle tiles, connect a city or whatever.

To use an analogy we're all familiar with,
This is like going Extractor before Spawning Pool, when one delays the initial Zerglings in order to research Zergling Speed sooner. In effect, the same 6 Zerglings will be upgraded sooner by delaying the Spawning Pool, enabling earlier agressive action.
That can also be used to gain time morphing the Lair and towards the Spire to rush Mutalisks.

Earlier gaz or earlier worker, it's all the same to me.

 

[bhavv]

If the jungle has lots of nice resources, or at least is riverside, beeline IW.

If its mostly resourceless / no river, regenerate map.

 

[Nexlev]

Can someone explain to me the national park / forest preserves on jungles instead of forests? I've seen that preference expressed many times but never explained. I always build that (if I build it) up in the tundra.

I like playing India and Aztec on jungle maps. The fast workers make a huge difference on this map, and Aztec can really exploit the food-rich jungle maps with heavy whipping.

 

[Tristan_C]

Sounds like a logistical advantage. You are more likely to find a large, solid bloc of jungle somewhere than a large, solid bloc of forest, late game.

 

[Kallikrates]

You can't chop jungle for hammers, so you do not lose much if you preserve jungle. You can chop tundra forest but unless riverside these are also very weak tiles so you are right that preserves and national park also work in a tundra city. But a jungle city with some bananas or sugar or some jungle chopped for farms can run more specialists in addition to the free from the national park. But usually such a city has been developed long before forest preserves come around. The mega jungle GP farm in Seraiel's guide was a city captured later and not yet developed, I think.

 

[Pangaea]

Can someone explain to me the national park / forest preserves on jungles instead of forests? I've seen that preference expressed many times but never explained. I always build that (if I build it) up in the tundra.

I like playing India and Aztec on jungle maps. The fast workers make a huge difference on this map, and Aztec can really exploit the food-rich jungle maps with heavy whipping.

The NP will come late, and usually you will chopped away all the forest by then, unless specifically keeping them around for the NP or spaceparts. Preserved tiles aren't really worth working, so placing the NP in a jungle makes sense. You wouldn't get anything for the jungle if you cut it down anyway, unlike with forests, and it's more likely you have a jungle-filled spot somewhere in the late game than a forested spot. Always nice with some 'proper' tiles though, like 1-2 food resources, and for instance a copper/iron/coal for some hammers too. Otherwise it's pretty slow going to get out the NP itself, plus buildings for more specialists (if not in caste).