Master of Myrror Fantasy Mod 2.0

[BradRinWi]

heya drift

1 sorry i was un intelligible..
but that doesnt matter

i think your on the right track ewith tweaking the wheeel rather than reinventing math and physics

1.0 modified moderately.. at middle and high end and a slight re balance at lower end should be great..

as for the four new unit groups is a good idea with the potential for more players to share the same resources.. and the fact that the graphics exsist or will shortly is a big plus..

btw any thoughts on monastaries??

so far i do love 90% of the changes.. and going back to the 1.0 unit stats with some low end rebalance and some higher end boosting would resolve most of the rest

IMHO. of course..
no mod is perfect no game is perfect..and everyone has different taste

But your mod is one of 3 and based on one of a very few game systems that comes close

 

[Drift]

@BradRinWi

Don't worry about me not understanding, this time I got your message perfectly.

Thanks for the feedback. I've done some small balancing to the 1.0 stats and they look pretty good. I'll continue to tweak them though.

Monasteries are still on the to-do list. Haven't given them much thought with all these unit stat problems keeping me busy.

 

[mrtn]

I think you should be able to make a race out of the Aiel, and possibly some more, maybe add some horse archers or something...
Personally I think that the Amazons are silly, and most of the units doesn't look very good. I wouldn't include them, but then, that's only IMNSHO.

 

[Drift]

I dislike the Amazons as well. I'll try to think of a replacement for them.

 

[Dragonlord]

Hi Drift, great to see your expansion is out!

I haven't actually played it yet - this evening, hopefully! - but the expansion looks great! I'm especially looking forward to playing the new mages and I'm real excited about the unique units! [dance]

Just one thing: I see you're already thinking about going back to 1.0 with some tweaking...for chrissakes, why?! Would that mean giving up the new mages and UU's? Pleeeaaase, noooooo!!!

Give some more of us a chance to try out your Beta before throwing it all out - or making too drastic changes - there's such a thing as responding TOO quickly to every criticism on the thread... give us a chance to play a couple of games through, first.
Of course, ironing out bugs is something else again - patch away!

 

[Drift]

@Dragonlord

No, no... I'm talking about going back to 1.0 unit stats. All other changes and additions would remain in place.

I am a little hasty sometimes, but with unit stats I pretty much know what I'm dealing with: endless balancing and tweaking with uncertain consequences. In retrospect the new stats were a mistake and shouldn't have been included in 2.0 in the first place.

I'm probably putting out a small patch tomorrow with tweaked 1.0 unit stats.

 

[Dragonlord]

That's a relief... *wipes sweat from brow*

I understand that there are some issues with unbalanced units, but overall I feel it's a good idea to have a steeper progression of unit stats - personally I like having some incentive to keep up the science race in the game.
On the higher difficulty levels - I play DemiGod and up - there's no fear of running away with the tech lead, which would unbalance the game with a steeper progression, I admit - maybe that is a real problem on lower levels.

 

[Drift]

I guess I'm naturally affected by the fact that my skill level is somewhere around Warlord/Regent. It's a good thing I have superior players testing the mod. Balancing the mod for both groups and the people in between can be a little problematic sometimes.

Running away with tech lead isn't the only problem, there's also the matter of how quickly units become outdated and how much AI hurts because it doesn't upgrade enough. MoM's tech tree with the race techs, or "AI speedbumps" as someone called them also makes it easier for human player to race his own branch for a higher level unit and take out AI that advances more evenly.

I will do some adjustments to the unit progression so that some units reward the player a bit more than they used to. Hopefully it'll turn out ok.

 

[Lusikka755]

I would have my suggestion ready on a piece of paper. It has 2 unique units each magic (with some spare units in case of you not liking my plan), techs and stats planned ready and also mages given the sec. magics. Do you still want to read it? It would use mostly the units from WH 2.0 but also other units not yet included in MoM.

 

[Drift]

Of course I want. Can't promise I'll follow your advice though, but I will read it carefully.

BTW do you mean an actual piece of paper or a piece of paper in Word?

 

[Lusikka755]

Actual paper. The post will deliver it to you before Christmas.



Or then I'll just copy it to Word asap and post here. Which do you prefer?

 

[Drift]

Actual paper. The post will deliver it to you before Christmas.

Or then I'll just copy it to Word asap and post here. Which do you prefer?

You can decide. Naturally typing it to Word is less hassle, but you need to do some extra work when compared to just mailing the thing. Also, the sooner I get it, that much better chances it has to affect things. Development advances a lot before Christmas...

 

[Lusikka755]

After hours of considering I decided to post them here.

First of all, I would like you to know that I don't know crap about Master of Myrror outside this mod so you'll have to rename the units and consider them carefully.

So, here is the plan:

Unique units:

Nature:
Lion Mistress (WH2) - Nature V - 6.4.1
Great Eagle (WH2) - Nature III - 4.2.1
Other possibilities: Lion warrior (utahjazz)

Life:
One of the Aielmen - Life IV - 2.4.1
Sea Giant (aaglo) - Life IX - 7.3.4
Other: Mounted Rohirrim (utah), CamJH's next units

Chaos:
War Mammoth (WH2) - Chaos VI - 5.5.2
Fire Giant (aaglo) - Chaos X - 5.8.1
Other: Chaos Dwarfs (unless you make them resources), Asha'man (CamJH)

Death:
Nazgul (mrtn) - Death III - 3.3.2
Black Ark-ship (aaglo) - Death IX - 6.6.3 transport: 4



Mages and Secondary Magic

Life:
Oberic - Life
Merlin - Chaos
Galen - Nature
Ariel - Death

Chaos:
Ungor - Life
Tauron - Chaos
Sss'ra - Nature
Lo Pan - Death

Nature:
Minerva - Life
Raven - Chaos
Freya - Nature
Tlaloc - Death

Death:
Kharan - Life
Rjak - Chaos
Mordja - Nature
Vlad - Death


This way every mage would be genuinely different and thus the mod would be more fun to play. And there also would be some interests to research also other than "own" magic techs. The unit stats may need some balancing but I believe they are about fine. And yes, I think those aaglo's giants are good enough if the original spider and the hellspawn are

So, tell me what you think? I do hope this leads to something.

 

[mrtn]

...Death:
Nazgul (mrtn) - Death III - 3.3.2
Black Ark-ship (aaglo) - Death IX - 6.6.3 transport: 4
...

Nazgul is too LOTR-specific IMO, better rename it. Grabbing a bunch of undead unit names from ToT gets: Fell Wraith, Barrow Wight, Lich. Fell Wraith was a mounted unit in that game... Maybe MoM can give some names too.

 

[Drift]

@Lusikka755

Thanks for the feedback. Some initial thoughts:
- Are unique units mage-specific? Do they replace regular units?
- Great Eagle and Black Ark are in the mod. Eagle is a Nature Mage aerial transport and Black Ark is a Death Mage late-game naval transport.
- Original spider isn't in the game any more and Hellspawn blends in with other units reasonably. Aaglo's old giants don't blend in and they don't look very good. Mrtn's Nazgul is IMO simply too black. Sorry. (edit: now that I think of it, Nazgul does fill the graphical requirements of the mod. It's more of a case whether it's needed.)
- I'll consider the other suggested units and/or their stats.
- What would secondary magic do? Would it give the mage access to the units of his secondary magic type or what?
- I honestly feel the improvements, wonders and race techs are enough of an incentive to research the other branches.

 

[rhialto]

I really hope that any new units don't go outside the list of those in teh original Master of Magic game. I think the original game list was sufficiently broad that there isn't any good reason to step beyond them anyway. It would be like the Warhammer mod including TSR's umber hulks. Sure, they're cool, but then it wouldn't be true to the original source material, and couldn't really justify keeping the original name that inspired it.

I'd make an exception for sea and air and artillery, where teh original game didn't really expound on all that much.

 

[Drift]

@rhialto

You're in for a rude surprise as many of the new units don't have their origins in Master of Magic.

I've never said Master of Myrror is a Master of Magic mod so you shouldn't treat it as one. All I've said is that the mod is based on Master of Magic loosely. It has never even tried to be 'true to the source material'. Whenever it has been possible, I've tried to stick to the stuff that is familiar from Master of Magic, but I've mixed in my own vision from the start and the end result is a fantasy mod with strong MoM influences, but a nature completely of its own. Not for a minute have I considered this to be a weakness.

 

[n12m13]

I started a game palying as Galen on the chieftan level (I'm not to good). SO far I have about 12 cities, lvl 5 life magic, adn I'm way ahead of everyone else, in cities, tech, gold, and about equal in units. I think the barbarians need to be a little more powerful. Not a single unit of mine has died because of a barbarian. I think you should wait a bit more before giving teh drak tower or whatever. So far this mod is great. I hope you continue developing it. The only piece of critisicm is that the tech tree is way to straightforward. Also I think I should only need the first 3 or so lvls in each category of magic to advance to the next age.

 

[mrtn]

n12m13, you get huge bonuses against the barbarians at chieftain level (800% IIRC). You're more advanced than everyone else because of the difficulty level, it's nothing to do with the mod.

 

[BradRinWi]

Dargon lord does have a point I play at emporer lvl and some times demigod..

so Im glad to hear that some of the unit boosting..based on incentive to devlop tech and higher lvls isnt going to be trashed ...


barrow wight is a lord of rings term as is balrog and many others...
so its noit technically any better than nazgul though less known perhaps
But tolkien pretty much coined the term..in modern usage..
unless you go back several hundreds of yrs..


ummm
otherwise great mod drift.. I look forward to any further betas and patches...

It seems like you have a "vision" and arent easily diswayed from it though willing to listen..

which is a good quality

Brad