Mazatl - swamps or improvements?

[AgentTBC]

I'm playing the Mazatl for the first time and the way their lands transform into verdant jungle and swamp is very cool, but I'm unsure how much of this to allow. I realize the lizards get a lot of food bonus on swamp which makes building farms unnecessary... unless you want to run aristocracy+agrarian to get your economy flowing. The other choice is cottages, but those can't be built on swamps either.

I can use scorch to remove the swamps and build farms/cottages, but that defeats the purpose of a cool lizard swamp dwelling race. What's the best balance? It doesn't seem like you can preserve the flavor of a bunch of swamp dwellers while also building improvements to help your economy.

 

[zup]

Swamps all the way. But I never, ever build any cottages. Cottage economy == fail. (I believe in concentrated living.)

 

[AgentTBC]

What do you do for commerce if you don't build farms OR cottages? That leaves out the agrarian+aristocracy strategy and the traditional cottage economy. Sure a trail in a swamp gets you +1 commerce (which I didn't realize at first and definitely makes swamps more attractive) but 1 commerce on a bunch of swamps can't possibly be enough $$$ on higher difficulty settings...

 

[Valkrionn]

Lost Lands. Honestly, all commerce should come from trade. They are BEASTS when you use their civic.

 

[civ_king]

try lost lands, that is all you need to know about Mazatl (oh and have lots of open borders...)

 

[AgentTBC]

Ahh, there's the problem. The barbarians went on a rampage and wasted the civs near me. Nobody to trade with! Of course that means nobody to seriously threaten me, either.

 

[Valkrionn]

Lost Cities blocks foreign trade. Gotta have lots of cities, but once you do, it's very powerful..... Get commerce, food, and hammers from trade.

 

[thadian]

how do you cope with their worthless, stoned workers? oh well.

what i do for economy is choose my plots. my swamps normally are food/commerce. try their bartering houses/courthouses/Lost Lands.

if you NEED the money bad enough, you can delete some obscure older units.

As for the barbs clearing out your neighbors, make sure to thank them. i sense a long barbarian war ahead of you but this is also what happened to my last game. by the time i removed all the lairs, savages and barbs that pwnd me, i met some other civs and my barb war cost me the game and rendered me to obselence.

might treat it as an isolated start and aim for teching?

edit: overcouncil + delcare open trade.

 

[Breez]

I have NEVER had a commerce issue with the Mazatl, nor a lack of great people. Of course I was playing them before the recent changes but I was getting cities size 50+.

I try to build 1 cottage per city on average. Rest are mines and swamps.

 

[civ_king]

I have NEVER had a commerce issue with the Mazatl, nor a lack of great people. Of course I was playing them before the recent changes but I was getting cities size 50+.

I try to build 1 cottage per city on average. Rest are mines and swamps.

 

[Valkrionn]

That's all from Lost Lands...... I love that civic. Your cities may not grow fast, but they'll be constantly growing.

 

[civ_king]

can they use SotW? if so

 

[Valkrionn]

Nope. They're agnostic, so religious civics are out.

 

[civ_king]

crap, I was just working out an Idea using it...

 

[Breez]

Note: I have not playing them in the last few patches and they have been toned down a tad recently.

Thadian: what do you mean by

how do you cope with their worthless, stoned workers?

Thier workers have scorch and spring. They are master terraformers. My ONLY issue with their workers is captured ones that build roads instead of trails causing rework.

 

[Valkrionn]

Think he was referring to their workspeed, which is about a third slower than any other worker.

 

[Rystic]

Note: I have not playing them in the last few patches and they have been toned down a tad recently.

Thadian: what do you mean by



Thier workers have scorch and spring. They are master terraformers. My ONLY issue with their workers is captured ones that build roads instead of trails causing rework.

That could probably be fixed if a check was added to onRouteBuilt in the python. If it's either of the Lizard teams, it becomes a trail.

 

[Breez]

Think he was referring to their workspeed, which is about a third slower than any other worker.

meh they have 1/3rd less to improve than any other civ

 

[RogueThunder]

meh they have 1/3rd less to improve than any other civ

I can agree with that. Sadly, on their native terrain. Their buildrate is effectively 33% that of any other civ other than Caulli. Who share the same issue. (Tho mitigate it some due to their unique civic, and whoring of slavery)

Which means they STILL need to build twice as many workers as anyone else... even the elves... >.<

Stupid terrain workrate mods on jungle/marsh that deep jungle/wetlands didn't have...

 

[WarKirby]

they need an autoaquire promotion that increased their work rate while in jungles.

Just requires Lizardman promotion and Jungle terrainontile