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Civ 3 has depleting resources. In the Civ 3 editor you can set an appearance and disappearance ratio to every type of strategic and luxury resource.

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I believe that's from the CCM Mod for Civ3, not the basic game. It's been a lot of years, but I don't remember any Civ game since Civ 2 having depleting resources. I'm sure somebody with more recent knowledge of the older, pre-Civ V games can correct me on that if necessary.

Well that's a city builder so I didn't know that we were counting that. I do agree that putting city building economics into a 4x or other tbs strategy game is cool, I did it myself after all, but there are absolutely reasons most game don't do it.

City Builders, allowing, of course, for completely different scales of activity (Farthest Frontier, like many, allows you to move individual people, not just population Points and Units) have a lot of similarities to 4X games: you have to Exploit the surrounding terrain and biome, Exterminate or at least drive off intruders, and frequently Expand, even to starting Trade Routes with off-map destinations. The different emphasis and scale (especially Time Scale when related to History-spanning games like Civ, Humankind, an Ara, and Millenia) means they have to be consulted very carefully, but the idea of mineral Resources that deplete, as the example from CCM Mod for Civ 3 indicates, is not that difficult or hard to understand. One Basic Thing is that depleted resources cannot be a Game Ender: if Iron remains an absolute requirement to build any Melee or basic infantry unit stronger than a Warrior, depleting Iron is a non-starter in game terms. It all has to be balanced in some way, and those ways have been discussed here at some length.
 
I do like what I'm reading here... Hopefully the ages aren't too easily gamed by the player. And also hoping for good mod support to add new ones.

That said the graphics aren't exactly much to shout about
 
I believe that's from the CCM Mod for Civ3, not the basic game. It's been a lot of years, but I don't remember any Civ game since Civ 2 having depleting resources. I'm sure somebody with more recent knowledge of the older, pre-Civ V games can correct me on that if necessary.
Civ 3, even since Civ 3 Vanilla, has depleting resources. Attached is a screenshot of the C3C biq with the standard C3C Firaxis editor, as the editor for Civ 3 Vanilla is no longer working with Civ 3 Complete.

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The screenshots in my post above were done with the CCM 2.5 mod, but this mod here only has a better detailed description of these options in the civilopedia. The options themselves exist in the original Civ 3 basic game since Civ 3 Vanilla.
 
Civ 3, even since Civ 3 Vanilla, has depleting resources. Attached is a screenshot of the C3C biq with the standard C3C Firaxis editor, as the editor for Civ 3 Vanilla is no longer working with Civ 3 Complete.

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The screenshots in my post above were done with the CCM 2.5 mod, but this mod here only has a better detailed description of these options in the civilopedia. The options themselves exist in the original Civ 3 basic game since Civ 3 Vanilla.
Thanks for the correction. I remember paying the Hell out of Civ III, but that was over 20 years ago and a lot of Bytes under the bridge since then.
 
Thanks for the correction. I remember paying the Hell out of Civ III, but that was over 20 years ago and a lot of Bytes under the bridge since then.
May be this is a good opportunity to give Civ 3 another chance, as at present Civ 3 Complete at GOG is on sale for only € 1,29 and Flintlock has just released the newest version of his astonishing Flintlock mod, that adds so many options and fixes many bugs, that Firaxis never did fix. In addition I recommend the CCM 2.5 mod.
 
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May be this is a good opportunity to give Civ 3 another chance, as at present Civ 3 Complete at GOG is on sale for only € 1,29 and Flintlock has just released the newest version of his astonishing Flintlock mod, that adds so many options and fixes many bugs, that Firaxis never did fix. In addition I recommend the CCM 2.5 mod.
I've already got Civ 3 stashed on my computer, but right now I don't have the time to go back and re-install it, add the Mods, re-familiarize myself with it: there are already 5 games I've 'Wishlisted' for the rest of this year, I'm doing a major research project for a fellow who wants to produce a board game on a historical subject, and Jack and I are still trying to finish our massive work on the Battle of Moscow (negotiating with publishers now).
Retirement - a time to relax - has not been my experience!
 
One of the experiences we felt had been overlooked was that of player authorship, of feeling like you’re the one writing the story. When we played, we often felt less like we were leading a nation and more like we were trying to remember boardgame rules.

So, from a very high level, one of our goals was to steer in the direction of more open-ended, systems-based gameplay - to deliver a feeling of being the guiding spirit of a nation.

First and foremost, that direction informs a lot of our decisions.

Ok, see this here is addressing what is Civ6’s biggest flaws, the fact that just about every mechanic screams YOU ARE PLAYING A BOARDGAME ITS MINIMAXMORBIN TIME
 
I'm doing a major research project for a fellow who wants to produce a board game on a historical subject, and Jack and I are still trying to finish our massive work on the Battle of Moscow (negotiating with publishers now).
Good luck to your projects! :)
 
One Basic Thing is that depleted resources cannot be a Game Ender: if Iron remains an absolute requirement to build any Melee or basic infantry unit stronger than a Warrior, depleting Iron is a non-starter in game terms. It all has to be balanced in some way, and those ways have been discussed here at some length.
Aye, in Civ3 resources can be extremely volatile but will always maintain their starting balance (disappears one place, reappears another). The Next War scenario for Civ4 has net-negative depletion, but the whole premise is environmental collapse so it's a unique example.
 
Aye, in Civ3 resources can be extremely volatile but will always maintain their starting balance (disappears one place, reappears another). The Next War scenario for Civ4 has net-negative depletion, but the whole premise is environmental collapse so it's a unique example.
This is precisely the type of mechanic that I think the game should avoid: "maintaining their starting balance" as a random event. You the Civ should have to actively Hunt for replacement deposits/resources, through map exploration, new technologies, trade, etc. And, unfortunately, there is no automatic 'maintaining the ... balance'. For a Worst Case example, look at the world-wide depletion of fishing stocks that has been going on for a couple of centuries but has accelerated disastrously in the last 50 years.

On the other hand, as an example, mineral resources could be subject to a distinct Technological Progress revealing New deposits:

Basic Mines (Neolithic to Medieval) allows shallow mines that can dig out deposits only near the surface, but would be sufficient for the small quantities required then - it only took about 100 tons of Iron to equip a Roman Legion of 5000 men with metal armor, weapons, helmets, etc.

Deep Mines (Medieval to Modern) - the advent of sophisticated timber frame reinforcement of mine shafts (geometrical wood truss construction) and the first mechanical and later steam-powered drainage/water removal allowed access to much deeper deposits from the very late Medieval period. This was particularly important because the sheer quantities of minerals required by the Industrial Era were an order of magnitude greater than anything before - that 100 tons of iron, in the 19th century, would build 1 kilometer of railroad track - without any locomotive, cars, and only a single track without sidings, switches, or signals. It took 10 to 50 times that for a single Ironclad, and so on.

Open Pit Mines (Modern and later) - once steam-powered excavating machinery (the 'steam shovel') and railroads are available, you don't really dig mines, you just remove the whole mountain to get at the deposits. Open Pit mines can be kilometers wide and a kilometer or more deep and virtually change the configuration of the landscape, but they allow exploitation of 1000s of tons of resources, once you expend the resources in machinery to get at them.

A similar 'progression' of Irrigation, chemical fertilizer and pest removal technologies could be posited for plant and animal resources so that, in most cases, there was a direct technological 'answer' to depleting resources. Where there wasn't, substitution of artificial materials for 'natural' resources could be invoked as a game mechanic: note that no one really needs Dyes, Ivory or Fur natural resources much any more: they were all among the earliest to be replaced by chemical (aniline dyes), plastics (bakelite, among others) and artificial fibers (rayon among the first). Of course, some of the replacement technologies simply move the Resource Problem to a different resource: aniline dyes are also called Coal Tar dyes because they are a derivative/by product of Coal, another potentially depletable natural resource.

The point, though, is that resources should not be Static. Now, you find all the amounts of a resource all at once, magically seeing them all as soon as a given trigger is reached. After that, they are unchanging and permanent - and, therefore, Dull. We have enough Dullness in the late-game of Civ already; there's no sense in regarding that as a Natural Product of the 4x game.
 
A similar 'progression' of Irrigation, chemical fertilizer and pest removal technologies could be posited for plant and animal resources so that, in most cases, there was a direct technological 'answer' to depleting resources. Where there wasn't, substitution of artificial materials for 'natural' resources could be invoked as a game mechanic: note that no one really needs Dyes, Ivory or Fur natural resources much any more: they were all among the earliest to be replaced by chemical (aniline dyes), plastics (bakelite, among others) and artificial fibers (rayon among the first). Of course, some of the replacement technologies simply move the Resource Problem to a different resource: aniline dyes are also called Coal Tar dyes because they are a derivative/by product of Coal, another potentially depletable natural resource.

The point, though, is that resources should not be Static. Now, you find all the amounts of a resource all at once, magically seeing them all as soon as a given trigger is reached. After that, they are unchanging and permanent - and, therefore, Dull. We have enough Dullness in the late-game of Civ already; there's no sense in regarding that as a Natural Product of the 4x game.
I want to highlight the link between these more intensive processes and their environmental consequence. Pollution has been increasingly abstracted throughout the series and rarely tied to improvements directly—it was Alpha Centauri that drew a direct link between terrain improvements, especially "second-tier" improvements (Boreholes, Condensers, Echelon Mirrors) and aggravated eco-damage, and the only way to eliminate it entirely was to re-wild the landscape and get all your resources from off-world (an easily-overlooked, but shrewd comment on the inherent fallacy of a linear extractive economy). A tighter pairing between industrial technologies themselves, and alternative strategies fostering sustainable development, would do wonders for verisimilitude; in this age, not making climate change a key component of the late game is basically dereliction of duty.

P.S.: Speaking of Resource Wars... :mischief:
 
The point, though, is that resources should not be Static. Now, you find all the amounts of a resource all at once, magically seeing them all as soon as a given trigger is reached. After that, they are unchanging and permanent - and, therefore, Dull.
In Civ 3, when a resource is depleted, it pops up anywhere else on the map on a tile with a terrain that allows that resource. So the civs "must actively hunt for replacement deposits/resources, through map exploration, new technologies, trade, etc.", and this even when the whole map is explored.

Edit: Here you can read the statement by Firaxis about that topic in 2001 (Civ 3 Vanilla): https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/depleted-coalmine.10347/#post-117355
 
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I want to highlight the link between these more intensive processes and their environmental consequence. Pollution has been increasingly abstracted throughout the series and rarely tied to improvements directly—it was Alpha Centauri that drew a direct link between terrain improvements, especially "second-tier" improvements (Boreholes, Condensers, Echelon Mirrors) and aggravated eco-damage, and the only way to eliminate it entirely was to re-wild the landscape and get all your resources from off-world (an easily-overlooked, but shrewd comment on the inherent fallacy of a linear extractive economy). A tighter pairing between industrial technologies themselves, and alternative strategies fostering sustainable development, would do wonders for verisimilitude; in this age, not making climate change a key component of the late game is basically dereliction of duty.

P.S.: Speaking of Resource Wars... :mischief:
The late-game-only Pollution mechanic is a Fantasy. Yes, people in large numbers pollute more, and modern massive industrial complexes pollute more, but humans changing the terrain or failing to react to changes dates back to Prehistoric - we have never lived on a Static Planet and never will until the whole thing is a cold, dead cinder.

But aside from a more reactive map/terrain to play on, the more important (I think) feature to reflect on is the entire focus of these types of games. The very definition of a 4X game is Continuous 'Progress' - Expansion, Exploitation, Extermination - the last now possibly including ourselves, or at least a large percentage of us. Taking a look at the off-beat game project Syphilization made me consider an alternative - that game (aside from being a conscious satire of the entire historical 4X genre) requires Cooperation, not Conquest, to succeed.

So, what if the normal Victory Conditions and everything leading up to them are revised?

One could assume that rampant pollution and an unlivable planet are the 'natural' outcomes of human population and make Victory dependent not on how you end the game - because that will always be in disaster - but how well you did along the way - a 'rolling victory' that emphasizes keeping the greatest percentage of your population reasonably happy and content for the longest time instead of getting heaps of them slaughtered trying to overcome their neighbors.

Equally, one could assume that late game will be devoted to salvaging as much as possible from the growing environmental problems, with emphasis on new reclamation technologies, diplomacy, cooperation, or as a last result, escaping into space.

This should in any case be 'backdated', so that Civs/Factions/Populations throughout the game have to deal with a Dynamic Planet - deserts expanding and contracting, sea levels rising (the classical Megalopolis Alexandria is now largely under water), rivers and harbors silting up, etc.
 
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