Blackbird_SR-71
Spying from 85,000 ft
okay i want to add minuteman as the unique unit. i would have added a modern unit but i never reach the middle ages in time. so what stats should the minuteman have?
Minuteman UU
- Thread starter Blackbird_SR-71
- Start date
Tomoyo
Fate
2.4.2. 60 shields, are the accepted stats.
El Justo
Deity
i would maybe give them extra mvmt liek +1 or the ATR flag. after all, they were guerillas...
douche_bag
can't change my name now
the minuteman should be an offensive unit, it should be an upgraded version of the midevil infantry and availible at metallurgy. I could be as strong as a crusader 5.3.1 and have a bombard attack
Minutemen were historically militia, therefore NOT offensive units! They were typically farmers and shopkeepers who were on call in case of local defense needs.
Of course, for gameplay you could do whatever you want.
Of course, for gameplay you could do whatever you want.
Tomoyo
Fate
That would be if we had an arquebusier-ish unit that was an offensive gun unit, but we don't, so it has to replace the musketman. Speaking of this Arquebusier-ish unit, would 5.3.1 be a good set of stats for it?
EDIT: This is in response to the post two posts above this.
EDIT: This is in response to the post two posts above this.
sealman
Hater of Babylonians
I would make it cheaper than the musketman, 1 less defensive point and 1 more movement, plus a bombard ability.
Reasons:
Cheaper because they were locals who just showed up one day to fight (not really, but you get the point - I hope)
-1 Defense: Since they were not "regular army units", they did not have the same training as other infantry style units.
+1 movement: They knew their locale like the backs of their hands.
Bombard ability: They were marksmen and, for lack of a better term, "rabbit hunters"
Reasons:
Cheaper because they were locals who just showed up one day to fight (not really, but you get the point - I hope)
-1 Defense: Since they were not "regular army units", they did not have the same training as other infantry style units.
+1 movement: They knew their locale like the backs of their hands.
Bombard ability: They were marksmen and, for lack of a better term, "rabbit hunters"
El Justo
Deity
i would even consider making them -1hp (not w/ a default HP of 3 but 4 would be perfect).
SJ Frank
Spamalot Co-court
1/4/1, 30 shields, no upkeep, replaces the musketmen.
1) these guys should replace muskets, we can all agree on that
2) historically, these guys were weak fighters, especially for the form of offensives conducted during their era, so I'm reducing their attack by 1.
3) removing their defense or HP would make them too weak for the era that they're in. Many players would rather have the regular musket than a defensive unit that's weaker in defense.
4) adding movement would make them too strong, I think.
5) adding the "no upkeep cost" not only fits their origin as millitias, but also enables America to have a stronger Republic/Democracy than other civs.
6) the 30 shield cost + 1/4/1 stats is the same as the Dutch UU, but the Minuteman is available much later. The "no upkeep" makes up for the fact that it is available later, so over all, this trait combo is fairly balanced vs rest of the game.
1) these guys should replace muskets, we can all agree on that
2) historically, these guys were weak fighters, especially for the form of offensives conducted during their era, so I'm reducing their attack by 1.
3) removing their defense or HP would make them too weak for the era that they're in. Many players would rather have the regular musket than a defensive unit that's weaker in defense.
4) adding movement would make them too strong, I think.
5) adding the "no upkeep cost" not only fits their origin as millitias, but also enables America to have a stronger Republic/Democracy than other civs.
6) the 30 shield cost + 1/4/1 stats is the same as the Dutch UU, but the Minuteman is available much later. The "no upkeep" makes up for the fact that it is available later, so over all, this trait combo is fairly balanced vs rest of the game.
douche_bag
can't change my name now
@SJ Frank
what do you mean be "no upkeep"? does this mean that the maintince cost for the unit is nothing?
what do you mean be "no upkeep"? does this mean that the maintince cost for the unit is nothing?
KabeDerlin
Prince
While it is true they were militia they were most famous for the fact that they did not fight the same way. They were guerillas. I would think they specialized moreso in counter-attacks than a defense purpose. With this in mind the minuteman makes a poor UU for the Americans because if you make it into a good attacker and poor defender you are left with a poor defender throughout the middle ages.
You could do as suggested above but I feel it would be a poor representation of what the minuteman actually was; a cheap, quick, and relitively effective way to make a counterattack on british troops.
However despite all this my view of a minuteman would be maybe a 4.2.2 musketman, possibly cheeper.
SJ Frank
Spamalot Co-court
@douche_bag
In the C3C editor, there is an option to make an unit maintainance free.
The kind of attacks that the minutemen were able to launch on the British were more like Zone of Control shots than real attacks. They were never able to destroy an entire unit (as in killing an unit in the civ sense), but they were effective in injuring the enemy, slowing them down, and lowering their moral.
Hey, another idea, give them ZoC
In the C3C editor, there is an option to make an unit maintainance free.
The kind of attacks that the minutemen were able to launch on the British were more like Zone of Control shots than real attacks. They were never able to destroy an entire unit (as in killing an unit in the civ sense), but they were effective in injuring the enemy, slowing them down, and lowering their moral.
Hey, another idea, give them ZoC
gunkulator
Emperor
Since they were hit and run guerilla types who carried lighter caliber weaponry than regulars, perhaps they should be more like 3/3/2 units. Minutemen harried and disrupted infantry. They didn't fight many pitched battles and when they did they didn't fare too well.
Tank_Guy#3
Lion of Lehistan
El Justo said:
I agree with this, as the minutemen were guerillas.
Blackbird_SR-71
Spying from 85,000 ft
So what we could do is give the following stats:
3/3/2, ATR flag, no maintence, ZoC, 60 shields, no resources
what does ATR stand for?
3/3/2, ATR flag, no maintence, ZoC, 60 shields, no resources
what does ATR stand for?
Tomoyo
Fate
All Terrain as Roads, probably.
Tomoyo
Fate
I think it should be one movement, ATR... Those two movement ATR Yamabushis in Sengoku make the whole scenario unbalanced.
El Justo
Deity
i agree. i'd go either ATR w/ 1 mvmt or 2 mvmt and no ATR.Tomoyo said:
SJ Frank
Spamalot Co-court
If you give it only 3 defense, then don't make it a replacement of the Musket, instead, have them co-exist.
I think 2 move and no ATR makes more sense. guerillas should only gain mobility bonus when in friendly terrian. In enemy terrian, they are fish out of water. 2 move and no ATR means they get 6 movements while on friendly road. ATR and 1 movement would mean they only gain the mobility bonus while in hostile land.
I think 2 move and no ATR makes more sense. guerillas should only gain mobility bonus when in friendly terrian. In enemy terrian, they are fish out of water. 2 move and no ATR means they get 6 movements while on friendly road. ATR and 1 movement would mean they only gain the mobility bonus while in hostile land.
