Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well I will let you to your work now that you have text, icons and sounds. I can't wait to test them out in game! 
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
Misc Building Ideas
- Thread starter Hydromancerx
- Start date
Supercheese
Zeppelin Commander
Good guesses Hydro, and most certainly those are good games, but the answer is actually Mass Effect 2. Specifically:
Spoiler :
Afforess
The White Wizard
Mass Effect 2? No wonder, I haven't gotten around to buying that yet.
I notice that more buildings might be getting integrated into the existing modules .... OK, I hope this doesn't come across as too negative, but it gets harder for me to use AND modules the more superfluous buildings that are added to them.
I had commented in the bug thread on the Poacher building when I first saw it in Beta 6 -- it made no sense to me why this building was somehow contributing income to the city. I had suggested that it contribute food instead so that it had a niche -- provide food for a hard to feed city at the expense of happyness, that way it would only be used to grow certain cities but actually hamper ones with enough food. But seriously, I never would build it, and I would be concerned the AI was hurting itself by building them when it sees the income bonus. I would argue that Poachers are not something that a Civ / Govt would implement, it is something that happens when people are unhappy, starving, or in poverty and have the opportunity -- for this reason alone it doesn't sit right with me.
Things like Tattoo parlors, Public Pools, and Saloons are getting kind of granular for a civ game. Tattoos have been around for a long time, whether they had religious value or artistic value to society and Saloons are just bars / Taverns that existed in the wild west. I'm not certain why they are deserving of a building, and their significant health penalties could also hurt the AI. I realize some people want a building for every possible situation, and I respect that -- I also don't use Sports, Pets/Zoo, Domesticated, Farms, Snow building packs. If we start putting a bunch more buildings into NIMBY, I'm gonna have to turn that off too.
I haven't had a chance to properly check out Beta 10 yet, so I'm not sure what has changed, but I noticed there has been a general trend to take away % boosts and replace them with flat bonuses. This is a good thing, because a lot of these "flair" extra buildings are too powerful when you add up all the little %2-%5 resources boosts and stick them in a specialized city.
The Cryogenics prison is just over the top with the all the bonuses and a %50 espionage and 10% Science boost. How do you get an espionage bonus from frozen prisoners anyhow? You can't interrogate them?
Ultimately, whenever someone proposes a building, I hope they ask themselves:
1.) Is this a variant of some building that already exists or is covered under the umbrella of an existing institution?
2.) Is this building significant to society in the era it is proposed for?
3.) Are the benefits / penalties in balance with the core Civ buildings? Do they scale as intended for very large cities with lots of resources?
I came here to follow up on the Poacher building, and I just wanted to voice my concerns.
I had commented in the bug thread on the Poacher building when I first saw it in Beta 6 -- it made no sense to me why this building was somehow contributing income to the city. I had suggested that it contribute food instead so that it had a niche -- provide food for a hard to feed city at the expense of happyness, that way it would only be used to grow certain cities but actually hamper ones with enough food. But seriously, I never would build it, and I would be concerned the AI was hurting itself by building them when it sees the income bonus. I would argue that Poachers are not something that a Civ / Govt would implement, it is something that happens when people are unhappy, starving, or in poverty and have the opportunity -- for this reason alone it doesn't sit right with me.
Things like Tattoo parlors, Public Pools, and Saloons are getting kind of granular for a civ game. Tattoos have been around for a long time, whether they had religious value or artistic value to society and Saloons are just bars / Taverns that existed in the wild west. I'm not certain why they are deserving of a building, and their significant health penalties could also hurt the AI. I realize some people want a building for every possible situation, and I respect that -- I also don't use Sports, Pets/Zoo, Domesticated, Farms, Snow building packs. If we start putting a bunch more buildings into NIMBY, I'm gonna have to turn that off too.
I haven't had a chance to properly check out Beta 10 yet, so I'm not sure what has changed, but I noticed there has been a general trend to take away % boosts and replace them with flat bonuses. This is a good thing, because a lot of these "flair" extra buildings are too powerful when you add up all the little %2-%5 resources boosts and stick them in a specialized city.
The Cryogenics prison is just over the top with the all the bonuses and a %50 espionage and 10% Science boost. How do you get an espionage bonus from frozen prisoners anyhow? You can't interrogate them?
Ultimately, whenever someone proposes a building, I hope they ask themselves:
1.) Is this a variant of some building that already exists or is covered under the umbrella of an existing institution?
2.) Is this building significant to society in the era it is proposed for?
3.) Are the benefits / penalties in balance with the core Civ buildings? Do they scale as intended for very large cities with lots of resources?
I came here to follow up on the Poacher building, and I just wanted to voice my concerns.
Afforess
The White Wizard
Valid concerns. I feel like we (I) are drifting away from important concerns and are now focusing on the trivial. Should the government really be building private sector buildings? With a communist civic, maybe. But generally, no.
Afforess
The White Wizard
After re-thinking things (thanks to Cykur bringing me to my senses...), I don't want to add all of these. The Cyro Prison is okay, and so is the Saloon, but other than that, they are all redundant. The Public Pool is the same as the Outdoor Rec Center. The Animal Shrine is the same as the Idol Shrine. The Tattoo Parlor shouldn't ever be a building ever constructed by any government, and it isn't well represented in Civ. The Chinampa's seem like they would be better as an improvement of some kind, I'm not sure how well they fit in either, and the Aztec's and Maya's don't need another UB. Monty will never build it anyway. 
So I'll tweak the Poacher's camp, add the prison and saloon.
So I'll tweak the Poacher's camp, add the prison and saloon.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
The poacher is ment to kill animals for profit not food. Remember the poacher is selling things on the black market because its illegal to hunt these species. Most of the species would be killed for medicines, aphrodisiacs or are just visually appealing or just rare.
The Tattoo Parlor is to represent modern tattooing. Tribal tattooing could have its own building early on in which this could replace it. However maybe have it around aesthetics or something. I don't know what good tech it would be. The saloon is more than just a bar but also represents a time in history. Anywho like I have said I want to try to make it as detailed as possible covering all the various aspects of human history.
Te maximum security prison has 100% and the jail has 25% so I put it in the middle at 50%. Plus since its a late trans-human era I figured they could read the prisoners minds while frozen.
After re-thinking things (thanks to Cykur bringing me to my senses...), I don't want to add all of these. The Cyro Prison is okay, and so is the Saloon, but other than that, they are all redundant. The Public Pool is the same as the Outdoor Rec Center. The Animal Shrine is the same as the Idol Shrine. The Tattoo Parlor shouldn't ever be a building ever constructed by any government, and it isn't well represented in Civ. The Chinampa's seem like they would be better as an improvement of some kind, I'm not sure how well they fit in either, and the Aztec's and Maya's don't need another UB. Monty will never build it anyway.
So I'll tweak the Poacher's camp, add the prison and saloon.
Please add them all! *growls at cykur* I already took stuff out before, this is my short list! Afforess you were the one who even said more is better! And had a whole speech about it. Don't get discouraged by the coding drugery. Here is my defenseses ...
Public Pool
This represents aquatic sports during the ancent era all the way up to the industrial revolution. While the outdoor rec center represents grassy sports like golf. And the Water Raceway represents nautical sports like motoboat racing, jet ski, sailing, etc. Please do not disguard this one.
Animal Shrine
First of alli redid the stats a bunch of times and made it now unique enough for you. You even said so. As for the idol shrine vs the animal shrine are not even close. Animals shrines don't even have to have an idol they can have everything from animal sacrifice on an alter to actually having animals live in the shrines such as the rat shrine in India where they leave out food for the holly rat. Animal shrines, or i should say better, animal worship is a huge part of early human cultures.
Tattoo Parlor
Oh come on now your jut making excuses not to do it.
Chinampa's
This is to make up for them not getting a unique building from the domestic animal mod. Plus the icons were too good not to use in civ4. Please put these in.
EDIT: Please add the other buildings. Don't listen to Cykur! He doesn't know what he is talking about. This is my short list of buildings all put together into one pile. Like all the ones you said "sure I will get to that". Plus you have said for a long time that your all for more content. Even content for content's sake.
I have such a big picture of how it could be but if you keep rejecting buildings ... gah. Don' say you will do it and then change your mind. You know they are awesome!
I mean like imagine for example you have a civ and they have a whale resource nearby and then build an animal shrine for it and now they are cool whale worshipers worshiping the sacred white whale.
Or having the aztecs with their Chinampa getting a cultural advantage over the rest of the Native Americans.
Its these little things that can start to simulate how things really happened in human history. All the little things add up. If you keep taking them out then thats one less thing to make RoM more detailed and true to history. And really isn't that what out goal is? To add mods that make RoM more interesting every single game? The more content there is the less likely you will ever play the same game twice.
Who know, building the unexpected building just might give a twist on the games history that expresses itself in a new way.
The poacher becomes available with Monarchy, and back in the day, poaching was all about food. Peasants in feudal societies were often not allowed to hunt big game -- it was considered the right of the aristocrat who owned the land.
In current times there is a lot of focus on poaching for money -- ivory, rhino horns, etc. But I tell you, there is still TONS of poaching simply to fill stomachs. In Africa people go into preserves and kill primates for "bush meat". Even if the poaching is for money, I don't think this is a money stream the government would access.
In my mind, the Saloon is just a variant of a Tavern/Bar/Inn/Brothel type building. They show up in most societies in some form or another, and in the Wild West during the 1800's, it just happened to be called a Saloon.
Anyhow, it is just splitting hairs.
I think the Cryogenic Prison is cool, but it has to be rebalanced / rethought. Regular Prisons serve a dual purpose to punish and reform the individual. The Prison of a Intolerant Monarch is going to be a lot different than the Prison of a Liberal Republic, but they are both Prisons. The Cryogenic Prison probably would only be built by the more Totalitarian Societies as a way of "getting rid" of people. It is unlikely that the more representative governments would have these.
In short I hate you cykur.
Sigh...I don't actually subscribe to more is better. That is the great thing about AND -- I don't install several of the building packs. I find having Petting Zoos, Igloos, Greenhouses, and Slaughterhouses all redundant or unnecessary. Sports is already happening in Stadiums, Arenas, and on TV.
While I was challenging the balance of some of the buildings, my main concern was that I was going to have to turn off buildings I liked because new buildings were popping up that I didn't want, and was concerned would hamstring the AI. I play with Revolutions Mod, and too many buildings that cause unrest or revolution can start a chain reaction and tear apart an empire.
But I digress -- sorry to have annoyed you, I hope your buildings make it in someday...but into a modpack I can choose not to install.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
1. Your talking about "hunting" not poaching. They had poaching during that time where they would kill say the sacred animals that is not suppose to be hunted or killing animals from the royal forest when you were not suppose to. Its not just the modern version. In short this is killing rare exotic animals for profit not killing them as a hunter for food. Note poachers don't have to kill animals they can poach rare plants such as trees, herbs, mushrooms etc.
2. The saloon represents the industrial revolution type of bar where drinking, gaming, and girls could be found. Something unique to the time where shoot outs with cowboys could happen or say miners panning for gold could come to rest. I think it deserves to be its own building. Detail is everything when it comes to AND. And we should not start cutting content. Affforess has even said he is for "content for contents sake". Which i firmly believe in. Because if we can make a game that is more detailed then we should never have the same game twice.
3. I disagree. Perhaps a cryogenic prison could be the most humanitarian way to keep criminals. Criminals no longer have to suffer being locked up for life in the cruel prison systems of old. No more shanking and sodomizing from other prison mates. I could see this used for cruel dictators as well as compassionate governments.
4. If you really want to Afforess why don't you just make all these into a Misc Building pack rather than adding them to existing mods if Cykur is complaining that he doesn't want to play it. And really Cykur you are missing out if you are not playing with all the mods. I have not had one game in which I played the same way thanks to them.
Just what I was saying for #4. It would make us both happy if my "Misc Buildings" were in their own pack so I can be happy and put it in while you can be happy and leave it out.
1. No, I'm talking about poaching...for food. Maybe we need a second poaching building for food poachers if yours is purely to supply the black market with goods? Hey! Do we have a Black Market building yet?
2. Kinda sounds like a redundant building to me ... Detail is great, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go through the yellow pages and figure out all the different types of shops that could be in the game.
3. You might have missed my point -- prisons may or may not be cruel depending on the society -- but the Prison building works just fine for all Societies. Cryogenically storing someone is basically killing them with the option to revive them later. I doubt a liberal democratic society would do this. I suppose the first step to committing a widespread atrocity (forcibly freezing humans) is to convince yourself that it is ethical. Totalitarian regimes have these kind of ethics.
4. I'm not missing anything. I often try the mods or look at what they do before I choose to disable them. I use about 2/3 of the available mods. That is the great thing about AND; people can tailor the game. I get excited about new buildings whenever they add a new area to the game that wasn't covered well. I'm excited to see how the guilds play out.
5. I have tried to be constructive and not just flame the buildings because I don't like them.
6. I bet you want to cryogenically freeze me right about now.
Good Night!
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
6. I bet you want to cryogenically freeze me right about now.
Good Night!
You have no idea. I mean I don't think you realize how hard it is to try to convince Afforess to do any of my ideas. For one he doesn't have to any of them and 2 who am I to tll him what to do. However I try to make my case on my ideas because they could make the game more interesting and detailed. If i did not suck at programing so much I would make them myself. Why do you think I offer to do the icons and text?
Anywho its seems your arguments are more destructive rather than constructive. Anyone can day destructive things such as ..
Why do we need a pinky toe? We already have 10 toes, we would do just fine with only 8. Heck some people have lost all their toes, foot or even leg. Who needs a pinky toe! Lets all chop off out pinky toe. We can eat less and have more room in our shoes!
See how easy that is? I would have given an example with civ 4 but I really like the stuff in it and don't want Afforress to suddenly agree with my fake argument (note I am not responsible if he cuts off his pinky toes) and take something out that I actually liked.
In short the best part about AND is the customization that we can have anything and everything in the mod and everyone can choose which they want and which they don't. Thus I really want to have ALL of those buildings in their own pack so people like you can choose not to, while people like me can still enjoy it and not have to settle for less.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Why do they have to be "governmental"? Why can't they just be "buildings"? And if you want to say they are governmental pretend that the government gave the petting zoo a grant to build the petting zoo.
konradcabral
Prince
I'm with Cykur. I think we should make a poll about that, since there's only one Afforess and he loses time making these buildings. A poll like that:
I'm with:
- Hydromancerx and his buildings
- Cykur and the "Calm Down" petition
I'm with:
- Hydromancerx and his buildings
- Cykur and the "Calm Down" petition
Supercheese
Zeppelin Commander
Hey, no worries Hydro, you can always add these buildings on your own, or if you'd rather, I can do it for ya. The modular XML for these things is really easy...
Afforess
The White Wizard
Don't worry Hydro, you have some pretty convincing arguments there, I'll finish adding all the buildings myself.
os79
Deity
Personally, what I want out of buildings are:
1. Fill in gaps game-wise
2. Stay true to historical significance
3. Balanced out so that you have a chance of losing the game if you choose wrong building.
4. Ultimately, the AI must understand and use them effectively and efficiently.
That's it. No
about "more is better" being bad. I definitely subscribe to it. I only want to be sure it all balance out.
Hydro, I like your ideas a lot but I play on Marathon speed (1500 in vanilla BtS, 1590 in RoM, 1640 in my Revised Gamespeed now) so I need to be sure the buildings can be built quickly and be relevant in the span of the turns I play with.
1. Fill in gaps game-wise
2. Stay true to historical significance
3. Balanced out so that you have a chance of losing the game if you choose wrong building
.4. Ultimately, the AI must understand and use them effectively and efficiently.
That's it. No
about "more is better" being bad. I definitely subscribe to it. I only want to be sure it all balance out.Hydro, I like your ideas a lot but I play on Marathon speed (1500 in vanilla BtS, 1590 in RoM, 1640 in my Revised Gamespeed now) so I need to be sure the buildings can be built quickly and be relevant in the span of the turns I play with.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Don't worry Hydro, you have some pretty convincing arguments there, I'll finish adding all the buildings myself.
Yay thank you. Oh and please do not chop off your pinky toe.
Personally, what I want out of buildings are:
1. Fill in gaps game-wise
2. Stay true to historical significance
3. Balanced out so that you have a chance of losing the game if you choose wrong building
4. Ultimately, the AI must understand and use them effectively and efficiently.
That's it. No
Hydro, I like your ideas a lot but I play on Marathon speed (1500 in vanilla BtS, 1590 in RoM, 1640 in my Revised Gamespeed now) so I need to be sure the buildings can be built quickly and be relevant in the span of the turns I play with.
1. I agree.
2. Yep. Though it can be hard to get the right tech to fit and not make it where too many thinsg appear with one tech. Which is why I am always happy to see more techs so buildings can be spread out. However I know its a pain in the butt to add them to the chart.
3. Yeah that's the fun part. Rather than having a problem of not enough buildings, but too many to choose from and then have to pick which you want to build. I also want to put more events and synergy for building that people normally would not build. Maybe I should write up a cool event for the saloon or something.
4. Yeah this can be hard since I don't always understand the complexity of the interaction of every building with each other. I am still getting use to the new guilds.
5. Yep more, balanced and historical is the goal for me. If we can do all that then the game should keep getting better and better.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@ Afforess
How is the progress on the misc buildings? Also which mod idea of mine will you do next? I would love to start working on the icons and text for it. We have ...
Water Mod (Has Icons Already Made)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=344387
I would really like to get this made as it is. Your whole "infrastructure" idea sound like it would take too much time for too little benefit.
Flammability Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=350255
This should probably be done after the water mod.
Health Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=352876
Transpiration Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=349432
Power Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=343423
Garbage Civics
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dd7wkht7_107f6cpk3fw
Basiclly adds a new garbage category just like how you were redoing your civics with departments.
Science Mod
No Thread Yet
Music Mod
No Thread Yet
How is the progress on the misc buildings? Also which mod idea of mine will you do next? I would love to start working on the icons and text for it. We have ...
Water Mod (Has Icons Already Made)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=344387
I would really like to get this made as it is. Your whole "infrastructure" idea sound like it would take too much time for too little benefit.
Flammability Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=350255
This should probably be done after the water mod.
Health Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=352876
Transpiration Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=349432
Power Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=343423
Garbage Civics
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dd7wkht7_107f6cpk3fw
Basiclly adds a new garbage category just like how you were redoing your civics with departments.
Science Mod
No Thread Yet
Music Mod
No Thread Yet
