[MOD] The Western World

A lot of their territory gain was associated with inheriting thrones - making much of the empire the direct property of the Habsburg emperors. Yes, they beat up the Turks, but the Turks got all the way to Vienna and then they needed help from the Polish just to push them out. They were a dominant power in Europe for a time, mostly when Spain was under a personal union, but all they really did that was significant was unite the HRE and keep the Turks out of Europe. They even had a battle in which they fought themselves due to a leadership/communication mistake, and lots of times were they defeated by forces they should've crushed. The Austrian military was incompetent. Especially in more recent history, needing help from Germany constantly, losing the front against the Italians (albeit barely).

Don't get me wrong, I admire Austrian history, their formation of the Grenzer units against the Turks, their role in the coalition against Napoleon, etc. but I don't think them being 'militaristic' as its depicted in the game would really suit them. If there was some kind of 'cultural' trait or something, then that would work (maybe I could rename the religious trait?) along with Scientific.
 
I think we mostly disagree on definitions. Ohwell.

In that case I think the best sollution would be to make them Rel/Sci. In gameplay terms that also gives them a real cultural advantedge, so it makes sense in more than one way.
 
Sci? what did Austrians invent between founding the first German university in Prague in 1348 and the Mannerschnitte in 1898? :D

I believe Habsburg-Catholic Austria after Rudolf II was quite the least Sci nation in the world ;)

that said, make them whatever you find fits your game. just wanted to jump in when there is a nation mentioned of which i happen to know the history quite well...

t_x
 
Sci? what did Austrians invent between founding the first German university in Prague in 1348 and the Mannerschnitte in 1898? :D

I believe Habsburg-Catholic Austria after Rudolf II was quite the least Sci nation in the world ;)

that said, make them whatever you find fits your game. just wanted to jump in when there is a nation mentioned of which i happen to know the history quite well...

t_x

The Austrians were one of the first countries to use a triple heavy gun turret on their first Dreadnought battleships, the Viribus Unitis/Tegethoff class, and also were one of the earliest users of the Whitehead torpedo. The Austrian Army actually used an air rifle around 1800 that was reasonably good. They also were one of the first countries to experiment with nitrocellulose or smokeless powder for weapons. Then there was this character named Freud that lived in Vienna as well in the late 1800s and the first part of the 1900s.
 
Schrödinger is a good example of why i esteem historic Austria as non-scientific. like many other Austrian scientists, he only became famous and successful abroad. in his case, due to his works in Switzerland and Germany. in most other cases, in England and the US.
other examples are Wolfgang Pauli (physics), Friedrich August Hayek (economy), Sir Karl Popper (philosophy), etc.
one of the few areas where you could make scientific progress in Austria was medicine, where you find that Karl Landsteiner, Konrad Lorenz, and others were able to do good research within the country's borders.
Freud... is a difficult case. despite his enormous popularity, it is not even clear whether he could be called a scientist by modern standards at all. however, his thinking was revolutionary, even if he did not come up with a durable theory or solution.

situation for students and sciences are still pretty poor. i studied in New Zealand and Austria, and i can tell you that scientific cultures in comparison were like 1st world and 3rd world.

timerover's examples do not sound "scientific" to me at all. and for most early adaptions and uses of military equipment you could find many more cases of the typical late adaption of new militaristic developments into the very conservative Austrian army. not to forget that they managed to lose nearly every war they engaged into... :)

but here it is about civilization and not history. and if you find REL/SCI is a neat combination, there you go!

t_x
 
I'm not sure why the popularity and how famous a scientist is would reduce their contribution to science, but, very well.

Plenty of scientists are relatively obscure but have contributed great things to science and our world. It seems silly to not downplay Austrian scientists because, as you said, they only became esteemed abroad, and not because of their contributions to science.

Regardless, I think Rel/Sci is a great combo :)

EDIT: Just want to say that I really appreciate the criticism and suggestions I've received over the past page or so. It's been a source of many ideas as well as changes, for the better, for a country I had overlooked. Keep it up guys :D
 
Just stopping by to say that this project isn't over or dead or anything. I've been having some computer issues, and now that those are fixed, Steam is refusing to launch Civ3. This is all, understandably, frustrating.

The mod has nonetheless made progress since August, mostly in finding and giving some people their proper units and a lot of fine-tuning for the Ancient World (especially iron age) and some experiments for how certain things in the Dark Ages can be represented.

A lot of work, particularly in ideas, has come to being in the form of doodles and notes in my notebooks as opposed to actual data, due to the nature of my now-resolved computer issues.

I hope to get to my favorite time period (The Age of Discovery) soon enough. Being the shameless Hispanophile I am, I will find it very fun to model Spain's rise, dominating Europe... and eventual decline. Portugal too. Playing with naval warfare and my colonial ideas will be really awesome. I look forward to it, but I still got 2 more sub-eras of the middle ages to finish, that deserve equal attention.
 
So is there an arbitrary turn limit on the game, or is the number of turns infinite? I've heard both accounts and I want to be sure before I do something with the dates.
 
You can have up to 1000 turns in a game to play towards a victory, after that infinite but there are a few things you don't get (background music or something? Also, cash from princesses)
 
You can have up to 1000 turns in a game to play towards a victory, after that infinite but there are a few things you don't get (background music or something? Also, cash from princesses)

That works for me. I thought the game would completely stop after 1000 turns.

I've been playing with some ideas discussed by Civinator and I think a couple others for having invisible cities and city units with the resource being the name and such... which also gave me some ideas to, for example, some Wonders can only be built in the city where they were built in real life. So for example to build the Colossus, you would need to own Rhodes.
This takes out the 'wonder racing' aspect of the game but I think its worth a trade-off as it will make some cities in particular very valuable and can cause wars and stuff like that. There are still wonders that can be built anywhere - although those have other requirements. The Senate wonder (unique for Republican governments) requires the Palace and so can only be built in your capital, for example.

Sea trade is mostly disabled, but there will be some sea trade routes for balancing purposes. The capital city, for example, will always have overseas trade, and some wonders you can build (both great wonders and wonders you get with a certain government type) can create overseas trading areas. I hope this will have the effect of reducing turn times while also allowing for resource trades, which is extremely important in this mod for balancing purposes, among other things.

In real life, military might is complicated. It was more than technology and tactics, it was also discipline, morale, and leadership. To add another dynamic to military power on land as well as to model the military decline of some countries (such as Spain or Poland) there will be a new type of Barracks in every era, or every other sub-era, where it suits. The tech giving the new barracks will make the old type obsolescent. In a way, this will operate like in Civilization 2 where you had to build new barracks everywhere all the time.
Being Veteran and Elite units is going to be a BIG deal. Veterans will be at least twice as durable as Regulars, and this'll make reforming your army necessary if you wanna keep up. There will be some wonders available to certain countries that do this reforms instantly for you (basically just putting the new barracks type in all your cities). For example, after Gunpowder a new Barracks type will come out, and Spain will be able to build the Spanish Square wonder, which will reform their armies to the most modern type. However in the Napoleonic era, Spain won't get any 'instant-reform' wonder which will make them fall rapidly behind, modelling how little organized resistance they mounted against Napoleon's invasion. Of course, the player can manually build all the new Napoleonic barracks stuff, but yeah.
Russia will get Suvorov Reforms, Scandinavia Gustavian Reforms, France Napoleonic Warfare, Rome will get Marian Reforms, etc. Which will be done using the unique techs of the country and the invisible city resources.
Of course, being a doctrine behind in military advancement is going to be crippling, although in the end barracks do the same thing, more modern units get increased hitpoints. Generally throughout military history there is a trend that training and discipline improves as weapon technology does. A modern soldier is much more heavily trained than a WW1 soldier, for example.

Speaking of Unique techs, each country will have one now, which will give a unique building. These unique buildings and techs will serve to better model the civilization's traits.
Spain, to use them as an example again, will get the tech 'Flota de Oro' which allows them to build Treasure Fleet Routes in the cities which have colonial wonders, the idea being that Spain would get more money from colonies.
The Austrians get Fugger Banks, which are Banks that also increase production by 25%.
The Romans get Pax Romana and Roman Courthouses, which in combination with the Senate's bonus, will reduce war weariness and corruption significantly. The idea is to model the Romans' still very militant society despite being a Republic (at least, for a little while). It's a bit ironic and maybe misleading that the tech called 'Roman Peace' in Latin makes the Romans even better at killing things efficiently, but it works.
The Polish will get to use the Folwark System, giving them better Forges which increase production by 50%.
The British get the 'Commonwealth' tech, which in the Modern Era allows them to commission fairly cheap, and only slightly worse, units from countries in the Commonwealth like Australia, New Zealand, Canada, India, etc.
Carthage will be able to build Naval Bases right from the beginning of the game. If I haven't mentioned these before, Naval Bases normally become available around the 1600s for other civs. The Naval Base pretty much is the ultimate harbor or drydock, not only making ships into Veterans but allowing overseas trade and can act as a coastal fortress. You also need the Naval base to construct heavier ship types, which works for the Carthaginians because of their unique ancient ship types.

I'm still working on this unique tech idea, I'm sure its been done before and I doubt I'm being really original with it, but I think at least my usage of it is rather creative, combining it with a unique building and the invisible city resource stuff.

Another problem I have to deal with is that in vanilla Conquests, population grows significantly faster than in my mod. I dislike this because in the Ancient World, there were large cities - Carthage for example had around 750,000 inhabitants during the time of the First Punic War, which is actually larger than my home city of Vegas. This would be about a level 12 city in Civ3's scale, but I've yet to see a city grow to that size, although it happens all the time in Vanilla.
Not sure why this happens. Most countries start in fairly good positions for food but even the Egyptians with their Nile River struggle to get more than 8. I'd hate to make grasslands or plains give more food or something as that seems like a really cheap way to go about fixing it, does anyone have any ideas?
 
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