consentient
Domination!
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- Jul 7, 2014
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Please submit it when you can. There are lots of us that would be very interested in it.
Monthly Deity Challenge #3 - France
- Thread starter vadalaz
- Start date
Please submit it when you can. There are lots of us that would be very interested in it.
I've been fiddling around with these settings a bit, and unfortunately it feels pretty random. Continents means it's harder to wipe out a culture leader, so you don't have a lot of control over what your tourism target will be. Cultural city-states can also make a big impact -- what if the other continent has four Cultural city-states? And you don't get to find this stuff out until halfway through the game.
It seems like ideally you'd want to have a mixture of peaceful and warlike AIs -- having warmongers on the other continent to take down culture leaders seems very valuable. But at the same time, you'd also like peaceful AIs on your own continent for the early game. So mix 'em together, and you end up with a lot of variance in what your AI environment looks like.
I've been playing high sea levels and experimenting with a 3-city Tradition --> CompBow rush. Trying to clear my continent as fast as possible while also growing, then get a ton of tourism from dirt later.
My current game just gave me one the most tilting events I've ever experienced playing Civ. I'm on a 3-civ continent with Assyria and Sweden. Not the greatest combo. One of the worst ones, I think. But I had an amazing start with Salt, a culture ruin, and 4 Workers stolen by ~t20. Really awesome, but I wonder... How much does it matter to have an amazing start if those are my AI? I'm not sure.
In this case, they both massed on my borders pretty hard. I paid a hefty price to Sweden (2 unique luxes +4 gpt) to send them to war on Assyria, then DOW'ed Assyria myself in the hopes of liberating the Zurich he'd captured. I succeeded in fighting off Assyria, then pushed for the ex-city-state. I was a turn away from liberating Zurich, when in between turns... it happens. Assyria makes peace with Sweden, GIFTING ZURICH TO SWEDEN. Zurich is liberated. Zurich is now an ally of Sweden. Sweden is no longer at war with Assyria, and within a couple turns his troops are clearly marching on me. Just brutal.
It seems like ideally you'd want to have a mixture of peaceful and warlike AIs -- having warmongers on the other continent to take down culture leaders seems very valuable. But at the same time, you'd also like peaceful AIs on your own continent for the early game. So mix 'em together, and you end up with a lot of variance in what your AI environment looks like.
I've been playing high sea levels and experimenting with a 3-city Tradition --> CompBow rush. Trying to clear my continent as fast as possible while also growing, then get a ton of tourism from dirt later.
My current game just gave me one the most tilting events I've ever experienced playing Civ. I'm on a 3-civ continent with Assyria and Sweden. Not the greatest combo. One of the worst ones, I think. But I had an amazing start with Salt, a culture ruin, and 4 Workers stolen by ~t20. Really awesome, but I wonder... How much does it matter to have an amazing start if those are my AI? I'm not sure.
In this case, they both massed on my borders pretty hard. I paid a hefty price to Sweden (2 unique luxes +4 gpt) to send them to war on Assyria, then DOW'ed Assyria myself in the hopes of liberating the Zurich he'd captured. I succeeded in fighting off Assyria, then pushed for the ex-city-state. I was a turn away from liberating Zurich, when in between turns... it happens. Assyria makes peace with Sweden, GIFTING ZURICH TO SWEDEN. Zurich is liberated. Zurich is now an ally of Sweden. Sweden is no longer at war with Assyria, and within a couple turns his troops are clearly marching on me. Just brutal.
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Such is the life of those seeking cultural victory. You are absolutely spot on- On large/segmented maps, your ability to win early hinges on location of culture runaways and the #/location of Cultural CSes to some degree.
Ouch. That is as brutal a turn of events as they come! Are you attempting to slug it out or did you consign your French Empire to the dustbin of history?
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I bailed on that game. Decided I didnt need any warmongers as extreme as Assyria. After a bit of fiddling, I settled on an opponent list of: America, Austria, Morocco, Netherlands, the Ottomans, Sweden, and Venice. Between America, the Ottomans, and Sweden, I have three AIs that should be receptive to being bribed into wars. This should be enough to make it highly likely that at least one is on the other continent, and none is so scary that spawning by them could seriously hamper a game. Having Austria and Venice in the game is nice theyre both pretty weak and manageable if I spawn next to them, and if either is on the other continent and eats some cultural CS before I meet them, thats great!
I had several false starts (a bit rusty at Deity warmongering . I forgot how much of a struggle it can be sometimes), but managed to eventually get a good map. Austria, Morocco, and Venice all on my continent, which is pretty much ideal. Also a nice selection of city-states.
I declined to Composite Bow rush this time, instead giving Morocco time to spam a few wonders. I then went for Machinery right after National College, starting Crossbow war around t100. Had enough gold to instantly upgrade nine Bows. It took about 40 turns of back-and-forth, slowly cutting into Moroccos troops, but I was finally able to take his capital. And a beautiful capital it is Alhambra, Chichen Itza, Great Library, Hanging Gardens, Globe Theater, Leaning Tower, and a glorious Petra. Amahd was nice enough to finish both of the Printing Press wonders in the five turns before I took Marrakech.
My tech detours mean that Ill be slow to Scientific Theory, but Ive got a strong empire and should be able to turn in a good result. It looks like there isnt a real culture runaway on the other continent, and the AIs are weak in general. I am somehow the tech leader already.
The World Congress hasnt been founded yet, putting me in a difficult place for timing the important proposals. I think the Third Congress is going to be too late to matter, so Ill need to pull the trigger on International Games in the Second Congress. Well see whether I manage to make it to Internet by then. Winning with Radar but not Internet may also be an option. I think I can do it -- I've tried winning on the Second Congress before, and came up short. But that game had a very early World Congress founding. With a late founding, I think I should have enough time to get the necessary stuff done.
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I have tried to start this one about 5 times now. I only managed to found a religion 1 time out of 5 even when making it a priority. It is a good start with 4 decent cities, but it has quickly turned into a blood bath on my continent. So far I am holding my own (which is to say I haven't lost any cities), but I am currently at war with 2 civs (out of 3) on my starting continent at turn 100. Luckily, my religion and the other 2 on my continent all have faith bought buildings on offer, and I managed to get Sacred Sites. Not sure that I can survive the slugfest though.
BTW, while rolling starts for this one, I think I found the worst start I've seen (no I didn't play it).
BTW, while rolling starts for this one, I think I found the worst start I've seen (no I didn't play it).
Spoiler :
I could have won one turn earlier by building exactly one more tile of Railroad, but otherwise everything came together beautifully. Won International Games on t216, finished Rationalism for Internet on t220, got two Great Musicians (one spawned, one faith bought), and that was that.
After taking Marrakech, I had to make peace with Morocco, as his total lack of troops defending his capital was partly a function of the large number of troops he had attacking MY capital. I did DOW again ASAP to liberate a Maritime CS that Morocco had eaten. After that it was all peaceful all the way -- with the treasure trove of wonders I'd acquired in Marrakech, I was confident that I would be able to get my tourism high enough to do the trick.
I went for Plastics immediately after Scientific Theory. Research Labs may not be necessary if you think you can win with just Hotels + Airports (definitely possible, but definitely not all the time). Plastics seems safer, though. I don't think it can hurt THAT much to get the extra science. Note that if you have International Games and can only get one of Internet or Airports, I believe the latter is better. Internet gives +100% base tourism, so it's only a 50% increase during International Games. Airports basically give double Hotel tourism. Hotels aren't going to be 100% of your tourism, but they'll be most of it. Doubling Hotel tourism should almost always increase your tourism by more than 50%.
This doesn't factor in National Visitors' Center, though. Getting Internet gets you access to the NVC, which is a benefit to that approach. Another interesting option that I didn't consider until after the game is NVC + Airports with no Internet.
I ended with 681 tourism. Hotels and Airports in all cities + Internet. I didn't bother with any tourism bonuses from Ideology. I had 20 Chateaux in my four cities (this is above average -- I'd peg it at 3.5-4 Chateaux per city on Continents), meaning 60 base tourism from Chateaux. Throw in multipliers, and that's 180 tourism, or 26% of my total. Put another way, having Chateaux gave me 36% more tourism than a Civ without Chateaux would have had. That's a good chunk. I also gained 12 base tourism from the French UA, for 36 with multipliers. Much less impressive, but not nothing.
Wonders I built: Oracle, Machu Picchu, Sistine Chapel, Statue of Liberty, Eiffel Tower, Cristo Redentor. The Sistine Chapel was really late -- like t160. Wonders I stole: Alhambra, Chichen Itza, Globe Theater, Great Library, Hanging Gardens, Leaning Tower of Pisa, Petra. That's 13 wonders total, meaning 39 base tourism from the Cultural Heritage Sites proposal. With multipliers, that's 117 tourism. Also a good chunk. This proposal is really strong, but sometimes timing it can be awkward. There's definitely a window where you're just giving culture to the AIs with this.
Policies: Full Tradition. Left-Patronage to science from allies. Rationalism to Secularism. (Unlock Freedom). Open Aesthetics. Universal Suffrage. Rationalism to Free Thought. Three in Aesthetics. Gold bonus in Rationalism. Finish Aesthetics. Finish Rationalism.
The most important thing in this type of game is to plan ahead on International Games timing. Figure out when that is going to be, and play to maximize tourism in that window.
After taking Marrakech, I had to make peace with Morocco, as his total lack of troops defending his capital was partly a function of the large number of troops he had attacking MY capital. I did DOW again ASAP to liberate a Maritime CS that Morocco had eaten. After that it was all peaceful all the way -- with the treasure trove of wonders I'd acquired in Marrakech, I was confident that I would be able to get my tourism high enough to do the trick.
I went for Plastics immediately after Scientific Theory. Research Labs may not be necessary if you think you can win with just Hotels + Airports (definitely possible, but definitely not all the time). Plastics seems safer, though. I don't think it can hurt THAT much to get the extra science. Note that if you have International Games and can only get one of Internet or Airports, I believe the latter is better. Internet gives +100% base tourism, so it's only a 50% increase during International Games. Airports basically give double Hotel tourism. Hotels aren't going to be 100% of your tourism, but they'll be most of it. Doubling Hotel tourism should almost always increase your tourism by more than 50%.
This doesn't factor in National Visitors' Center, though. Getting Internet gets you access to the NVC, which is a benefit to that approach. Another interesting option that I didn't consider until after the game is NVC + Airports with no Internet.
I ended with 681 tourism. Hotels and Airports in all cities + Internet. I didn't bother with any tourism bonuses from Ideology. I had 20 Chateaux in my four cities (this is above average -- I'd peg it at 3.5-4 Chateaux per city on Continents), meaning 60 base tourism from Chateaux. Throw in multipliers, and that's 180 tourism, or 26% of my total. Put another way, having Chateaux gave me 36% more tourism than a Civ without Chateaux would have had. That's a good chunk. I also gained 12 base tourism from the French UA, for 36 with multipliers. Much less impressive, but not nothing.
Wonders I built: Oracle, Machu Picchu, Sistine Chapel, Statue of Liberty, Eiffel Tower, Cristo Redentor. The Sistine Chapel was really late -- like t160. Wonders I stole: Alhambra, Chichen Itza, Globe Theater, Great Library, Hanging Gardens, Leaning Tower of Pisa, Petra. That's 13 wonders total, meaning 39 base tourism from the Cultural Heritage Sites proposal. With multipliers, that's 117 tourism. Also a good chunk. This proposal is really strong, but sometimes timing it can be awkward. There's definitely a window where you're just giving culture to the AIs with this.
Policies: Full Tradition. Left-Patronage to science from allies. Rationalism to Secularism. (Unlock Freedom). Open Aesthetics. Universal Suffrage. Rationalism to Free Thought. Three in Aesthetics. Gold bonus in Rationalism. Finish Aesthetics. Finish Rationalism.
The most important thing in this type of game is to plan ahead on International Games timing. Figure out when that is going to be, and play to maximize tourism in that window.
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Nicely done. Are inland capitals common on Continents? I was thinking about a Frigate rush to grab a bunch of cities and wonders around T130-160, with the intent to stagnate growth afterwards and focus entirely on Chateaux and Archeologist spam. I think it'd be cool to finish Exploration as well, but that's a lot of extra policies to get.
Been a bit burnt out on Civ lately, but I'll try to finish a game in time for this.
Been a bit burnt out on Civ lately, but I'll try to finish a game in time for this.
Inland capitals are pretty common. You could probably get all coastal capitals by selecting all coastal start-bias AI, but a lot of those Civs actually build ships, so it's tricky.
I think that approach would work, though. Since the World Congress tends to be founded a bit late on Continents, a strong game will probably win with International Games on the second Congress more often than not. That's plenty of time to get your tourism up one way or another, and if you win right after the Games start then it might not matter too much which particular path you take to get your tourism. Conquering a bunch of capitals should be a pretty consistent approach.
Results:
1.
Manpanzee - T223
A shame that there was only one submission this time. I couldn't manage to find the time to play myself, I suppose that lack of time was the problem for most people here. Or maybe these settings just aren't particularly fun to play?
Still, congrats Manpanzee, very good game. It's now the fastest non-SS Deity CV that has been submitted to HoF.
1.
Manpanzee - T223A shame that there was only one submission this time. I couldn't manage to find the time to play myself, I suppose that lack of time was the problem for most people here. Or maybe these settings just aren't particularly fun to play?
Still, congrats Manpanzee, very good game. It's now the fastest non-SS Deity CV that has been submitted to HoF.
Bleidraner
King
- Joined
- May 23, 2014
- Messages
- 640
Results:
1.
A shame that there was only one submission this time. I couldn't manage to find the time to play myself, I suppose that lack of time was the problem for most people here. Or maybe these settings just aren't particularly fun to play?
Still, congrats Manpanzee, very good game. It's now the fastest non-SS Deity CV that has been submitted to HoF.
Well done Manpanzee. Great game!
In my case, I got completely consumed by the GMajor and could not find the time to play this especially considering that I would have to learn how to play long culture competitively practically from scratch. I thought the challenge was great.
Yes, the challenge was a very good one (Gaining a culture victory without mosques and monasteries is great to shoot for!), but time was tough this month with the interesting major and the summer upon us. Very few submissions of any kind as the weather warms, it seems! Too bad Ironfighter wasn't able to get in a good game of this to see how he would differ from Manpanzee's style.
