Monument to the Gods vs. God of Craftsmen and Guruship versus Religious Community

[GKShaman]

Hey Everyone,

Was just wondering which set of beliefs provided the best/most useful boost to production
Pantheon:
God of craftsmen +1 Production in cities with Population of 3+
Monument to the gods +15% Production of Ancient/Classical Wonders

Follower:
Guruship - +2 Production if city has a Specialist.
Religious Community - +1% Production for each follower (max +15%)

I always used to choose Monument to the Gods and then follow up with Divine Inspiration since I used to get a lot of wonders. Also it stacked with Aristocracy and Marble boost. But now Im wondering whether God of Craftsmen is more stable/relevant in the mid and end game.

Also never tried Guruship or religious community. How are those? At what population city with followers does community overshadow guruship?

Also building wise between Cathedrals, Mosques, Pagodas, and Monasteries - Unless u have wine and/or incense isnt it better just to get Cathedrals every time for the art /artifact slot?

 

[notyourtypical]

Monument to the gods is a trap. For early wonders on a great start—say 2 plains wheat w/Grainary two mined hills and a hill city—you'll have 10 hammers from 4 citizens, 11.5 with the pantheon. Or you could take +1 on everything for the whole game. Even at the end of classical it's 3 hammers at most.

Religious community is the opposite; it starts slow but by mid game gives 5+ hammers. By modern it should net you around 15 in a capital or high production city. Guruship gives you a quicker benefit, but 2 hammers is pretty insignificant by the industrial era.

 

[les berceaux]

I always go with Religious Community, especially if I'm going to be a wonder whore

 

[_invy_]

It depends a bit, here are some thoughts.

God of Craftsmen is nice since every city will probably have 3+ pop, its similar to one of the policies from Liberty tree. Early bonus for whole game - very nice. This is maybe the most solid choice, getting hammers early is very important. When 3 pop city has 3-4 hammers only this translates to 33% - 25% production bonus which leads to faster libraries, colosseums and everything.

Guruship is actually very decent since later on every city will have specialist (scientists at least, or one of the culture GP). It has stronger bonus than God of Craftsman but comes a bit later and requires setup. I used this once for late religion when I didn't have other better option, it helped to pump production certainly.

Monument of the Gods. Probably not worth it, if you can get 20 hammers early on, which is a lot, it translates to +3 hammers for capital. And this bonus is only for wonders and only early in the game.

Religious community has the most potential late game, but early on is weaker than most of other options. For tall civ with some decent production this should be best choice overall. City with 10% bonus (10 followers) and 20 hammer production will net +2 hammers. Its not easy to get 10 followers until a bit later in the game (since other religions interfere) and its also not that easy to get 20 hammers in all cities. It looks like its well balanced with other beliefs.

Cathedrals are fine for slots, IF you need them - if you go culture then it probably should be first pick. Mosques give some extra faith, Monasteries are cheapest to buy and situational a bit (Wine and Incense bonus - but has no happy), and Pagodas are great overall. Pagodas are most common choice for best bonuses (+2 happy).

 

[A Rabid Dopsis]

It can't be emphasised enough how much of a trap Monument to the Gods is. It's boost is comparable to God of Craftsmen which isn't that great itself and lasts forever.

 

[bcaiko]

An issue with Guruship is that the first buildings with specialist slots come so much later than most Civs can get their religion going. So Guruship really is a long-term benefit, and won't help you much in the early game.

If I'm thinking of Guruship (I often select it and Religious Community for a hyperproductive religion), I'll select it when I enhance and not when I found my Religion. It's useless to me before then.

 

[triheptyl]

I personally feel that Religious Community (and God of the Sea in the right situation) is the only production belief that is worth it, but is a very powerful belief. Craftsmen, Guruship, and (shudder) Monument of the Gods, are all terrible. Like, completely awful. Quoting myself from another website.

Spoiler :

"Monument of the Gods really doesn't provide nearly enough production to waste a belief on. It only works for Ancient and Classical Wonders, the early game ones. During this time, your cities will have little production, so a +15% boost doesn't do much. If you have 10 production, you get a bonus +1.5 production a turn. You wont be getting much more than 20-30 production by the end of the Classical Era.

If you really feel you need the instant production boost, Craftsmen is better than Monument (but they both suck). It will give you the same or more production towards the earliest wonders, doesn't disappear in the middle of the game, and lets you build everything faster, not just wonders. But still, don't take Craftsmen, +1 production isn't very much.

But if you took something like Fertility Rites or Goddess of the Hunt, your city would be larger, maybe letting you work another mine or something, which would give much more production then either of those beliefs. It's a slightly more long term strategy, but even before the Classical Era ends I think just about any food belief would grant you more potential production than Monument or Craftsmen."

I also see you left out God of the Sea from your production beliefs. God of the Sea is one of the best production beliefs, in my opinion, but it does take a while to get it off the ground, and you need to have the right circumstances for it.

 

[Miravlix]

If a patch hasn't changed the up to 15% bonus, since I last tried it, it doesn't buff wonders and unit production, only normal buildings.

 

[GKShaman]

Yeah I didnt include Goddess of the Sea because it depends on where u spawn and the area around it.

I was just looking at whether these production boosts are worth it. It seems out of guruship, craftsmen, and monument - they all either suck or take some set up.

I usually like the jungle path or desert folklore. Personal favorite when it works is religious idols +1 culture and +1 faith for gold and silver - so tons of culture and faith which is sweet. Or oral tradition when that works.

Is fertility rites noticeable? I'm curious if anyone has been able to notice the degree of its usability. I mean sure when I use it my cities seem to grow fast but I play tradition so I farm a lot anyways.

Basically im looking for a "Go to " Pantheon belief. If a special broken one applies I'll take but otherwise what to do?

Messenger of the Gods used to be my go to. But it seems with the 5% science penalty the use of it is limited.

Also the most one can add with religious community is 15 % of the cities' production rite? So a 100 production city - RC would add 15 hammers? That seems good for my play style.

 

[Brassnbricks]

Yeah I didnt include Goddess of the Sea because it depends on where u spawn and the area around it.

I was just looking at whether these production boosts are worth it. It seems out of guruship, craftsmen, and monument - they all either suck or take some set up.

I usually like the jungle path or desert folklore. Personal favorite when it works is religious idols +1 culture and +1 faith for gold and silver - so tons of culture and faith which is sweet. Or oral tradition when that works.

Is fertility rites noticeable? I'm curious if anyone has been able to notice the degree of its usability. I mean sure when I use it my cities seem to grow fast but I play tradition so I farm a lot anyways.

Basically im looking for a "Go to " Pantheon belief. If a special broken one applies I'll take but otherwise what to do?

Messenger of the Gods used to be my go to. But it seems with the 5% science penalty the use of it is limited.

Also the most one can add with religious community is 15 % of the cities' production rite? So a 100 production city - RC would add 15 hammers? That seems good for my play style.

Commenting specifically on fertility rites, religions, and going tall: If you get the Temple of Artemis (15%), Fertility Rites (10%), finish Tradition (10%), and can meet the requirements for Swords Into Plowshares (15%), that adds up to a 50% bonus to food production, empire-wide. That can snowball out of control pretty quickly--when I play with that strategy, I end up having to build a bunch of happiness buildings in the middle of the medieval era because of the explosive population growth. On the bright side, that means that I'm never really hurting for people to work tiles or serve as specialists, and if you go Religious Community, it's fairly simple to max out the 15% bonus. If you're looking to make a game where you're the ruler of the Four Towering Spires of Wonderspam, it's a pretty decent way to go about it.