Name Your Top 5 (Restricted) Leaders.

[Peasley]

I was fascinated by the discussion on the worst BTS leader. So I felt like this thread might be neat. And don't give me a hand-wavy "I depends!" answer. That's no fun.

Here are my top 5, in no particular order:

Pericles of Greece - Pericles has the fastest great scientists in the game, and this is only amplified by your cheap universities. Combine this with Phalanxes, which are basically Civ 4 vanilla axemen, and you have a blazing-fast start which can win you the game in the classical era. Cheap super-colesseums are pretty nice too.

Julius Ceasar of Rome - A near-perfect combination of assets. Organized and Imperialist let you expand fast and pay for the inevitable empire you will conquer with Praetorians. The extra great generals help even more for pumping out highly promoted legions.

Huayna Capac of Tawantinsuyu - A ridiculous combination of economic traits combine with a powerful UU out of the gate and a granary that pops borders help you start fast, which, as we know, is the biggest factor in victory.

Mansa Musa of Mali - The AI god of tech will be overflowing with gold even if you play him. Forges are cool, and mints are even cooler. Skirmishers would be more convenient if you started with Hunting, but they will nonetheless make your classical era cities invincible - which, shockingly, lets you get a fast start.

Willem of the Dutch - Fast expansion and a strong economy let Willem get of the ground. He's not as great on Pangaea or land maps, but on Terra, Continents, or Archipelago, East Indiamen rule the seas, devastating Galleons and Caravels and allowing for cheaper and faster amphibious invasions and colonization. Colonization is especially fun thanks to the flavor it adds to the Dutch.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

1. HueHueHue Capac: Not that I like using them, but they're obviously the strongest civ in the game.
2. Mansa Musa: One of the best UU in the game, great traits.
3. Darius: Another top tier UU with tremendous traits.
4. Hatty: Traits are good, UU is one of the best in the game and typically easy to access.
5. Pacal: UU is good anti-barb and allows consistent fast BW without archery, UB is solid enough



Dutch lose out of top 5 because their uniques are less consistent and come later. Julius loses out despite noobtorians due to a slightly weaker trait set and more importantly, difficulty in consistently securing iron (Rome is at serious choke/early rush risk) AND having a target who doesn't spam skirmishers, aggressive axes on hills, or other problems associated with the delays on a sword rush (the forum blows too).

Really #6 for me is India, missing the cut only slightly on Maya since Maya has slightly better traits and a more consistent early game. On quick game speed India easily pushes into #2 or maybe even #1.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Here's my five votes for best:

Huayna Capac - the Cheesemeister. Very unusual to find a leader where everything is excellent
Mansa Musa - UB is OK and everything else is great. Skirmisher may not be as glamorous as Prats but are probably better.
Gandhi - Below average UB but everything else is great. Drop him from the list if you play Marathon. You won't go wrong with Asoka either
Hatty - Weak UB unless you like AP victories. Top flight UU and best early-game trait. I like Spiritual (3 spiritual leaders in my top 5). I might enjoy Ramses more but I think Hatty is a bit better. Ram is great too.
Zara - 2 great traits and easy access to Drill IV Rifles. I probably upgrade units too much.

If you're on a water map then Willem has to be top 5.
If Giggles wasn't Protective he'd be top 5 for sure. He might be anyway.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Can't find 5 votes... Huayna, Willem and Rome I am somehow reluctant to play. Rome because Praetorians. Huayna and Willem mostly because of the FIN trait which (is great but) shapes the early game in ways I don't necessarily enjoy.

So Hatshepsut, Pacal and Gandhi are sure picks for me. Well-rounded and versatile leaders with great shots at early wonders.

Louis XIV, Suryavarman,Wang, Mansa, Suleiman, Catherine, Isabella, Shaka are all contenders I like. Also Montezuma, Asoka, Gilgamesh, Cyrus, Elizabeth...

 

[Drakarska]

Cupac- no matter what mod I play, he's always top tier
Henry the VIII- SCI/IND, a really good combo that does well on HRW and ROM AND mods
Elizibeth- can't really go to wrong there, and good ren units.
Willem- put any large bodies of water near him, and he rocks.
Licoln- PHI/PRO is a nasty combo if you just want to build (great for diplo/space games).

 

[lymond]

My take:

1) Pacal - My personal favorite leader. May not technically be number one due to starting with Myst. If it was TW or Ag it would be certain. My love of Expansive is well documented.

2) Mehmed - Great traits and starting techs and a more than worthwhile UB. Mehmed gets discounts on a lot of important buildings with his traits. Like Pacal, he has the potential to grow very large cities early in the game and, well, that equals power. Arguably one of the most flexible leaders in the game and surprisingly very strong on watery maps. UU is throw-away IMO but UUs hold little value for me with the exception of a couple.

3) Gandhi - Two great and compatible traits and the best UU in the game...'nuff said (Asoka is pretty darn good too)

4) Hatty - A UU that actually matters with starting techs to match and strong traits. Ram could go here too, but I value Creative more than IND. Obelisk is junk, but has a purpose in certain strategies.

5) Sury - This is my underdog pick. Like Pacal and Mehmed, Sury is all about growth, although he has more concern about happiness than the other two. Two great traits and an underrated UB. Balista is deservedly one of the worst UUs, but Phants aint a bad unit anyway. (As a note, Mansa could go here)

Overall, I think France and its leaders are all very strong. Throwing out uniques, France has great starting techs and all the leaders have strong traits. Fast Pottery can often be a very good thing. (Although I'm not fond of muskets in general, the Musketeer does have great synergy with the best unit in the game - the Cur)

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Pacal buddy

Mehmed... Arf! I could have picked him, too. Cheap workers, granaries, lighthouses, courthouses, super aqueduct... He's loaded for sure and super flexible.
Sury (I like too but), I'm not sure should make the cut into a top5.

 

[Fippy]

Come on peeps, Ramsy HAS to be on that list..SPI and IND works just awesome together, and his UU and starting techs..there are no 5 leaders better than him, i know that much about this game

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Come on peeps, Ramsy HAS to be on that list..SPI and IND works just awesome together, and his UU and starting techs..there are no 5 leaders better than him, i know that much about this game

Sorry, I pick Hatshepsut for a more explosive early game and I can't conceivably pick Egypt twice
Ramesses is a very strong leader, yes. He's surely on par but one has to make choices. And if I were to pick an IND leader... the presence of Huayna Capac and Augustus Caesar makes it a little difficult to choose Ramesses. IMP, especially, strikes me as a better support trait to IND than SPI. IMP = drastic decrease of the opportunity cost of wonders.

I guess that's why I only made 3 picks.

 

[lymond]

Come on peeps, Ramsy HAS to be on that list..SPI and IND works just awesome together, and his UU and starting techs..there are no 5 leaders better than him, i know that much about this game

Hey, I did mention him! In my view, Hatty and Ram are a tossup really...just say Egypt in general.

IND is great for the Forge, which IMO is the second best building in the game next to Granary. You always want those two buildings. The rest are all situational.

Ram is a quite popular HOF leader

Pacal buddy

Right on, brotha!

Sury (I like too but), I'm not sure should make the cut into a top5.

That's why denoted him an underdog. Technically there are probably better leaders (I don't even mention Capac and Lizzy for my own reasons), but I find Sury to be very strong. Growing large cities early can't be underrated.

 

[Fippy]

I don't think IND is situational at all, there are also national wonders and fail gold.
But if you can get Pyramids with Spi (and Ind obv. helps a lot)..meh stuff like Fin or Cre doesn't even come close to what you can do with that.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Hey, I did mention him!

Oops... Fippy mentioned the list: it is the poll that doesn't mention Ramesses (nor Augustus, for that matter). Strong IND leaders are lacking, that's right.
24 poll options... 50-something leaders.

 

[lymond]

I don't think IND is situational at all.

You aren't referring to something I said, are you?

 

[lymond]

Ah..I see...yeah Ram should definitely be on that list.

You know, De Gaulle rarely ever gets mentioned in anything except as a whipping boy AI , but he actually is a pretty strong IND leader. Not Top 5 for sure, but still quite good. Louis certainly is.

It may be a matter of space on the poll, but if that is the case then leaders like Alex and Rags shouldn't be anywhere near this poll.

 

[Fippy]

Gaulle would be in my top 5
But then again, Cha is top 3 for me, so..

Maybe most play different than me, but Ramsy made for the easiest games i ever had, hands down.
If you have these Civics available (Rep. PS) and are SPI, you really must try hard to lose games even on Deity.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

It may be a matter of space on the poll, but if that is the case then leaders like Alex and Rags shouldn't be anywhere near this poll.

Right, whereas Shaka should be in!

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Maybe most play different than me, but Ramsy made for the easiest games i ever had, hands down.
If you have these Civics available (Rep. PS) and are SPI, you really must try hard to lose games even on Deity.

Well, if you play mostly on Deity... your assumption is reasonable.

Would your top5 look something like:
1- Huayna
2- Ramesses
3- Augustus Caesar
4- Gandhi
5- De Gaulle

??
Not sure who else but Gandhi could fill that 4th spot.

 

[lymond]

I think Fippy would probably have Izzy in their somewhere and I don't think she values fast workers as much, although she still might like Gandhi regardless. that's just my guess

Don't know about Capac either. Obviously he is brokenly strong, but I'm just not a fan of Q warfare.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I think Fippy would probably have Izzy in their somewhere and I don't think she values fast workers as much, although she still might like Gandhi regardless. that's just my guess

Don't know about Capac either. Obviously he is brokenly strong, but I'm just not a fan of Q warfare.

Maaybe. Although dropping Philo trait for Conquistadores (as awesome as they may be), I wouldn't do myself.
@nameless Qs: yes, same sentiment on that one.

 

[Fippy]

lol
Well HC screws this up, he's good but i never play him that's for sure..oh well he has to be on a strongest leader list anyway.

So something like..HC, Ramsy, Gaulli, Izzy (how did you know, Lymo?!?) and Lizzy
You could replace Izzy or Lizzy with Gandhi for sure, i rate fast workers high but not as overpowered as certain rush UUs. I don't like his starting techs thou, and i will forgive everything for Conquistadors..but Izzy has strong traits too, it's really just the starting techs if they would be better she'd be my n1.