National Park and Globe Theater combo

[§L¥ Gµ¥]

I was playing a game while under the influence a few days back [the best way for me to come up with creative civ solutions], and I stumbled across this combination. No unhappiness, and no pollution from population. This ideally takes away both caps on population and can create a massive city for producing specialists or drafting/whipping.

Has anyone here tried this out? Or use this regularly? Or is it too late in the game to be viable? Thoughts?

 

[Dragonxander PR]

I was playing a game while under the influence a few days back [the best way for me to come up with creative civ solutions], and I stumbled across this combination. No unhappiness, and no pollution from population. This ideally takes away both caps on population and can create a massive city for producing specialists or drafting/whipping.

Has anyone here tried this out? Or use this regularly? Or is it too late in the game to be viable? Thoughts?

I use it when I make duel OCC scenarios, or when I'm making Civ experiments that require tremendous populations (i.e. testing out if my Great People name hacks worked). Other than that, my cities usually reach their food cap before hitting happiness or health problems.

 

[DaveMcW]

You don't want to draft from a massive city, because it costs too much food to grow back.

Specialists are possible if you get 5 seafood.

@Dragonxander, just give yourself GPs in worldbuilder.

 

[Deckhand]

Memory is a blur, I might have done this the first time I built the National Park.
But the Globe Theatre is REALLY UNNECESSARY in the National Park city. You get plenty of happiness from the Forest Preserves. And having a lot of forests usually means you aren't going to grow too big.

 

[DMOC]

I comboed the National Park and the Globe Theatre for fun in one game.

 

[Dragonxander PR]

Memory is a blur, I might have done this the first time I built the National Park.
But the Globe Theatre is REALLY UNNECESSARY in the National Park city. You get plenty of happiness from the Forest Preserves. And having a lot of forests usually means you aren't going to grow too big.

The Globe Theater makes Forest preserves unnecessary for happiness in the city.

 

[CarlH]

The Globe Theater makes Forest preserves unnecessary for happiness in the city.

That may be the case, but you are then missing our on all of the free specialists from the National Park, which is the best feature of that wonder IMO.

 

[bestsss]

You get happiness and health w/ the nation park (happiness from the preserves) so basically you dont need the globe theater to grow big.
I built 'em together in OCC games if I have to defy AP/UN, then even 40+ happiness means squat for 22-23 city. National park comes naturally to allow scientists w/o growing in size and when defy unhappiness comes there is no other way.

 

[Gorey]

national epic and national park is better IMO.

 

[JTMacc99]

national epic and national park is better IMO.

True, but that is a really odd combination. Normally, you would like to get the National Epic up and running ASAP, and it seems unlikely that you would build it in a city that would eventually make a great National Park city. I suppose you might have a scenario where you could save 4-5 forests in your National Epic city and not be working them for centuries, but I always find myself needing those trees for either farmland or to replace with mines to make the NE city more efficient.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I once had a nice city on the tundra with a deer and a couple of seafood resources, some grassland - I put Nat epic and national park there.

Usually, though, I put nat epic in a late tundra city or a city I take from the AI..

 

[futurehermit]

someone (unconquered sun?) introduced this combo to the forums awhile back. the idea is biology farms everywhere and one of the food corps. then grow the city as huge as possible and run specialists. i've done it a few times and it works good. i wouldn't suggest it everytime, but when you don't have a good national park site or a good early GT site (e.g., for drafting/renaissance war) then it can be good.

 

[Fluxx]

It is only good, as stated before, when you got acces to a high food city surrounded by forests.

Lets say you got 4 big food resources in that city lets say 2 hills and for the rest forest, you can decide to make it a drafting city.

The city will sustain itself pre globe.

During Draft ages, it is pretty obvious what to do with the city, make it a huge draft city with Sawmills.

The moment the biology era enters you can transform this into a huge GT/NP city.

If you find such a city, by all means use it, else it is much better to use the wonders seperate form eachother.

 

[Gorey]

True, but that is a really odd combination. Normally, you would like to get the National Epic up and running ASAP, and it seems unlikely that you would build it in a city that would eventually make a great National Park city. I suppose you might have a scenario where you could save 4-5 forests in your National Epic city and not be working them for centuries, but I always find myself needing those trees for either farmland or to replace with mines to make the NE city more efficient.

i dont find it odd at all.

my GP farm is always going to be one that naturally has good food resources, so saving 4-6 forests aint that hard. it doesn't happen every game, but when i see it i exploit it. 4-6 free speciailists is always a good thing. lets me tear down a farm or two for a cottage post caste system.

whats more common for me lately is Wall Street / Nat Park. for some reason lately the city i decide to save my forests in will wind up as a holy city. so those free specialists from the nat. park wind up as merchants.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Has anyone here tried this out? Or use this regularly? Or is it too late in the game to be viable? Thoughts?

LoL, I actually posted this in a thread about a year ago and got crucified for it! . I was trying to explain how awesome it was to have 10-14 free specialists and a bunch of farms (late founded city surrounded by forests). Drafting/whipping troops every 3 - 4 turns on marathon while keeping the 10 - 14 free scientists or merchants(assuming Caste System still) sounds like a great hybrid city.

 

[JTMacc99]

i dont find it odd at all.

my GP farm is always going to be one that naturally has good food resources, so saving 4-6 forests aint that hard. it doesn't happen every game, but when i see it i exploit it. 4-6 free speciailists is always a good thing. lets me tear down a farm or two for a cottage post caste system.

Fair enough. I guess I'm undervaluing the National Park in my mind, as I would rarely think about it early enough in a game to see the synergy with the GP farm.

I've always thought of the National Park as something to do with a tundra city or a filler city that had lots of forests but no resources that made me want to settle there early. Ideally, I'd have a tundra city that I settled to grab a silver resource and a crab relatively early in the game, and then I could turn it into a solid National Park city (often fueled by corps) late in the game.

It certainly makes a lot of sense to just save 4-6 forests in my GP farm, as long as I don't need those tiles to feed the city. Heck, they could even be lumber mills long enough to build the NP, and then turn them into preserves.

 

[AmazonQueen]

I once got a start with half a dozen forested plains furs in my capital BFC. OU and NP worked very well there. Never happened since but I keep hoping.

 

[§L¥ Gµ¥]

LoL, I actually posted this in a thread about a year ago and got crucified for it! . I was trying to explain how awesome it was to have 10-14 free specialists and a bunch of farms (late founded city surrounded by forests). Drafting/whipping troops every 3 - 4 turns on marathon while keeping the 10 - 14 free scientists or merchants(assuming Caste System still) sounds like a great hybrid city.

this is exactly the role I saw it in when creating this thread. I could care less about forested tundra tiles and free specialists, the simple fact that it eliminated pollution by population makes it so attractive to a late-game biology fed, caste-powered GP farm.

I've just never grown a city to that massive a size before, and have no idea on how much it could or would change my civ's output in GPP, gold or science.

Oh and one more question about the national park wonder. When computing forest preserves and free specialists, are we talking empire wide forest preserves? Or only in the national park city's BFC?

 

[capnvonbaron]

There have been several times now where my Nat'l Park city ends up being an enemy's former capital Usually in these situations, a huge amount of forest surrounding the city hurt the enemy's growth in early game, allowing me to easily axe- or chariot-rush them (a raid-style war early to steal their first workers is usually recommended. I am typically very mean to my nearest neighbor...)

However, being a capital site, its usually on a river and has a couple of food bonuses. I just let the former-capital grow naturally without chopping until biology. Then build the park, and the city becomes a very flexible powerhouse depending on the ratio of lumbermills to preserves you wish to have. Settled Great Merchants are a great boost also.

 

[Deckhand]

Oh and one more question about the national park wonder. When computing forest preserves and free specialists, are we talking empire wide forest preserves? Or only in the national park city's BFC?

Only those in the city's BFC.

Forest preserves in the BFC of two cities will provide happiness (and health) to both.