Naval units sight radius defaults?

[Jacozilla]

Anyone know the default sight radius of each naval unit type? Don't need every unit but appreciate at least the modern ones.

I know for sure base sight radius is 2 hexes for battleship and regular sub. With exploration +1 and great lighthouse +1, my battleships and regular subs were able to see 4 hexes and go undetected against my opponents battleships and reg subs if I was 3 hexes away (e.g. My opponent has only sight radius of 2 hexes and does not have exploration or any other sight bonus so I was having a field day slaughtering his units since the AI always moves by movement order and doesn't "see" my own subs firing the prior turn like a human player would. Long as I end each turn with no AI units within his sight range it seems the dumb AI doesn't react to my own sub having just fired and chase it down with nearby units)

However I got surprised and had pack of my subs sunk because at end of my turn I parked 3 hexes away from enemy city thinking I was safe. But AI built a nuclear sub that appeared inside the city at start of his turn, spotted my subs 3 tiles away and had his bombers sink them.

Another of my subs parkes 4 hexes away, but his nuclear sub spotted me as well. So without any bonuses from exploration or great light house, seems the base sight range is only 2 for battleships and reg subs, but jumps to 4 for nuclear subs. I'm assuming this means when I get my own nuclear subs I will have 6 sight radius (4 base plus 2 from exploration and great lighthouse)

Missile cruiser I think is also only base 2 hex sight range but not 100% sure. Had my wolf pack of 3 subs try and sink one of the AI missile cruisers but the damn thing lived through all 3 of my subs single shots and left me exposed as I ended turn 2 hexes away and the barely alive missile cruiser called in the AI bombers to sink me. Fighting AI tech one age higher than me is mostly fun but its tempting my resolve to break my ironman mode (no reloads) when things like this happen.

 

[Scarpa]

Nuke sub comes with +1 sight, and if they had a barracks in the city they built/bought the unit in they could have immediately had another +1 sight.

The in-game Civilopedia can tell you these initial promotions. I believe base sight for ALL units is 2.

 

[Barghaest]

All units have a sight radius of 2 only impacted by Promotion upgrades. I know Caravel and Nuclear Submarine both have +1 Sight promotions, but unsure what else includes it (the promotions will be listed under the heading for the unit in the Civilopedia).

Was your unit near the border of the city? I believe - could be mistaken as the AI hasn't used submarines against me since pre-G&K - that if you are within or adjacent (1 tile outside) the borders of a city, Submarines are NOT invisible. The city itself basically has "Can See Invisible Submarines" so any tile visible by a city (within borders and 1 tile outside border) also displays all enemy submarines to that civilization.

 

[Jacozilla]

Thanks, I keep forgetting the civlopedia, I found the nuke sub entry and was really helpful to look at promotion badges it gets. Saw what the sight range promo badge looks like and I now hover over each ship in paranoia before ending my turn within its range just in case it has the range promotion.

 

[Ll1442]

also concerning the promotions, on the enemy, you cannot select them to hover over the promotions, but has to learn them all, and that's quite an annoyance

 

[Jacozilla]

Yea the common icons for promos like the triangle one is annoying. For some like the increased sight radius badge it's unique so you can spot that one just by eye.

Seems my game has a reproducible bug re sight radius I was confused about earlier. Without exploration policy or great lighthouse the base sight radius of a sub should be 2, and for nuke sub 3 - since it receives a +1 bonus as part of being a nuke sub.

Therefore a base nuke sub without any other promo should NOT be able to spot your own sub 4 tiles away. However in my game if I encounter a nuke sub by chance just as it is built in a city, then for that one turn it can spot my subs out to 4 hexes (and I later confirm that sub does not have sight radius badge promo).

That same enemy nuke sub after that very first turn of being created on start of enemy turn, reverts back to regular 3 range sight radius

This was why sometimes I thought I was safe parking my subs 4 hexes away from an enemy city only to be killed by bombers when by chance that city built a nuke sub materializing on next turn.

Only mod I am using is the popular unlimited barb xp mod.

 

[Barghaest]

That same enemy nuke sub after that very first turn of being created on start of enemy turn, reverts back to regular 3 range sight radius

This was why sometimes I thought I was safe parking my subs 4 hexes away from an enemy city only to be killed by bombers when by chance that city built a nuke sub materializing on next turn.

You sure that's the issue and not that the city itself spots you? I've had my subs spotted when the AI didn't have Nuclear subs. The city sight radius seemed to be the issue with me. If I was within 1 tile outside city borders, the AI (primarily happens with enemy CS) could bomb my subs.

 

[Jacozilla]

You sure that's the issue and not that the city itself spots you? I've had my subs spotted when the AI didn't have Nuclear subs. The city sight radius seemed to be the issue with me. If I was within 1 tile outside city borders, the AI (primarily happens with enemy CS) could bomb my subs.

Always open to other interpretation or expertise but don't believe right now it's a city sight issue of sub near their borders. I'm spotted, or not, by the known rules of the game except this one bug it seems.

When a nuke sub was not built on that same turn, I can sneak right up to enemy civ cities or enemy CS cities, inside their coastal borders and park as close to 2 tiles away without being spotted.

If there is an existing naval unit inside the city, I can park whatever number of tiles+1 exceeds that enemy naval unit's base sight range plus promos if any.

It's only in the somewhat chancy condition the AI just built a nuke sub on beginning of next turn after I'd parked 4 tiles away in my prior end turn thinking I'm safe from standard nuke sub 3 tile sight radius that this "bug" or whatever allows that nuke sub a one time, that start turn only sight range of 4 tiles even though it has no promotions.

A surface ship getting close to borders will be spotted as you said. Subs are immune to that.

I really only finally noticed this even though I play a ton of naval games because my last game was a rare defeat on emperor. I'm 50-50 on immortal but close to 100% on emperor. However, this game - a huge map with domination victory only enabled - Arabia became such a gigantic runaway he had like 20k gold, endless gpt, and half the map by the time I could engage him. He was building nuke subs like crazy so the chance encounters of having one of his cities build a nuke sub at start of his turn when I'd parked 4 tiles away came up a lot.

At first thought was just bad luck. But then I really tested and confirmed by moving other units to verify the nuke sub that had "spotted" me had no sight range promotion (it's one of the few unique badge icons so easy to view hovering over the unit). And Arabia had no GLH or exploration policy. And on following turns that very same enemy nuke sub was safe to park near at 4 tiles away - confirming it's normal base sight is only 3.

I'm open to maybe this is a mod issue. But don't know. Just started using as my first and only mod the unlimited barb xp mod from steam workshop.

 

[Barghaest]

One thing about them not having Exploration... it's hard to tell (at least default BNW) if an AI has opened a particular Policy tree because they don't show up in Diplomacy Overview until they've unlocked one the child policies (so, if it says the AI has Tradition: 1 it means they've opened Tradition AND picked one the first three policies - there's no Tradition: 0 to let you know they've gotten the opener).

The main way to tell for Exploration is Movement statistic of their naval units (if you have a UI mod that gives that info).