need advice on blocking

[vanillasine]

I have a dillemma. I want to block shaka from expanding west, while at the same time grabbing the floodplanes area, and the copper.

north copper city:
Problems include: I want to get a city with the fish, but thats not in range of the copper, and im sure shaka will settle a city on it if i let him. I thought about placing a city SW of copper but it wasted the fish. but i can hook up copper early.

Also thought about 1S of corn. same problem -- wastes fish, copper not in inner circle, but it will grow fast. and hae the copper in the fat cross evenualy.

now that im writing this Im thinking actually 2S of the copper -- although it wastes 1 floodplain, and has 4 desert in it, it will still grow fast, and will let me use the 1N of pigs place to create a GP farm potentially.

South floodplains city
When i first explored E, i wanted to found a city 1N of the stone. it will be crappy in production, but will serve as a cottage city. when i explored further N, i now want to block shaka, maybe by settling on the hill in reach of clams. but thats alot of dead land around. What the AI is suggesting with the blue circle I guess isn't all that bad. But I can see 1NE of that to be decent. doesnt' waste any FP but does have 4 unworkable tiles. (If i go with that then a city south, to grab the stone would be 1E of the pigs near capital maybe)

where would you place the cities?

 

[Ghpstage]

Don't worry about having a few unusable tiles in a city, it won't need to, nor be able to work them, for hundreds of turns at best, if ever.

 

[theratman]

I would go for the north copper city,let him have the desert plains.Find out if he has access to copper,that would be an extra bonus.

 

[ben-jammin]

I'd settle 1 SW of the copper and forget the fish. You get the copper (which can make an early rush on shaka realistic) and a floodplains to start you out and more than enough food in the BFC. Many a game will force you to settle for less, you're getting your resource, your block, and both in a fairly solid location. It's a no-brainer, really. If you try to squeeze the fish in there its almost guaranteed that Shaka takes your copper, your block is ineffective, and any war against Shaka is delayed and more expensive.

Even if Shaka has another source of copper this is still the best location. Id say that even without the copper that's the best second city location you've found. Instead of the fish and coast you gain 3 floodplains tiles and two grassland hills, plus extra forest. Gives you a lot of flexibility with that city. Fish are nice but not THAT nice.

2S of the copper gives up two food resources for floodplains that are going to cause you early grief with the health penalty, plus the fact that you 'waste' the floodplain tile youd be settling on. When you settle on a desert tile you turn an otherwise useless tile into a standard 2f/1h city tile.

 

[Nick Carpathia]

I'd personally settle 1S of the copper, that's a hill city in anticipation of when Shaka comes a-knocking at his nearest land border target. There's nothing stopping you from farming those floodplains, and a city 1N of the westmost pigs would become a GP farm. Shame the corn can't be irrigated unless you settle 1SW of the copper.

Another city 1NE of the rightmost blue circle should seal Shaka off, though it won't be hillside. Alternatively, settle another hill city 1SW of the eastern pigs, though that's just asking for a DoW.

 

[theratman]

I'd personally settle 1S of the copper, that's a hill city in anticipation of when Shaka comes a-knocking at his nearest land border target. There's nothing stopping you from farming those floodplains, and a city 1N of the westmost pigs would become a GP farm. Shame the corn can't be irrigated unless you settle 1SW of the copper.

Another city 1NE of the rightmost blue circle should seal Shaka off, though it won't be hillside. Alternatively, settle another hill city 1SW of the eastern pigs, though that's just asking for a DoW.

And he will come knocking

 

[vanillasine]

Ty for the fast responses -- most of you are saying to get the copper right away.

Don't worry about having a few unusable tiles in a city, it won't need to, nor be able to work them, for hundreds of turns at best, if ever.

i tend to forget this... >< im always looking at cities in the modern age, but usually they are still good cities.

Find out if he has access to copper,that would be an extra bonus.

I know that shaka has gone to slavery, sadly idk if he has copper.

You get the copper (which can make an early rush on shaka realistic) and a floodplains to start you out and more than enough food in the BFC.

The SW placement is so tempting. It is a monster city as you say. But a potential problem could be the short term -- with only the FP (farmed) I don't think i have enough food there to have a solid early production city. It'll be size 3, with 2 mines. idk if thats enough to pump out some axemen for a war.

I'd personally settle 1S of the copper, that's a hill city in anticipation of when Shaka comes a-knocking at his nearest land border target. There's nothing stopping you from farming those floodplains, and a city 1N of the westmost pigs would become a GP farm. Shame the corn can't be irrigated unless you settle 1SW of the copper.

personally I was inclined to do this option and get the GP farm. still, an axe rush on the dangerous shaka is less certain with this setup. and as u say i won't irrigate the corn later. or actually for the GP farm i would want all those tiles farmed right?


ugh, as u can see this was going to be tough. i think im gonna go SW of copper, forget the fish, and prioritize mysticism to expand the city into its full potential.

 

[Golden Hawk]

I'll second Carpathia, although if you have the time, consider settling 1N of copper instead of 1S to use the corn for quicker growth, then two more cities to get all those floodplains under your control. You'll net 2 great commerce cities, with one decent production city for the future. You'll also block off a lot of land that can then be backfilled.

Also, a city 1N of the northern pigs seems decent.
The middle FP city would be 1S of the plains hill, in order to borrow the grain for faster growth.
The lower 1NE of the blue ring like Carpathian suggested.

The only thing I'm doubting is whether or not you'll have time to pump out 3 settlers fast enough. but if you go on a chopathon with whipping, it might just be doable...

 

[vanillasine]

It'll be size 3, with 2 mines. idk if thats enough to pump out some axemen for a war.

wait.. im forgetting the 2 original food, oops

 

[backthief]

Start doing axeman ASAP and either:

1) attack his city rightaway
or
2) attack his resources, fortify nearby, dont let him improve tiles (completly cripple him).

IMPORTANT:
Scout ASAP the north part above Shaka. Is he has Iron/Copp and you cannot destroy and fortify it, be very carefull, the Impi has TWO moves.

He will war you very soon, you must be pro active in IHO.

 

[vanillasine]

I'll second Carpathia, although if you have the time, consider settling 1N of copper instead of 1S to use the corn for quicker growth, then two more cities to get all those floodplains under your control. You'll net 2 great commerce cities, with one decent production city for the future. You'll also block off a lot of land that can then be backfilled.

Also, a city 1N of the northern pigs seems decent.
The middle FP city would be 1S of the plains hill, in order to borrow the grain for faster growth.
The lower 1NE of the blue ring like Carpathian suggested.

The only thing I'm doubting is whether or not you'll have time to pump out 3 settlers fast enough. but if you go on a chopathon with whipping, it might just be doable...

hmm interesting --- i probably could get 3 out - im portuguese so i would have a little easier time of it. I am worried about hte maintanance costs tho -- i would be limping towards writing for the libraries (i don't have wheel or pottery yet)

 

[vanillasine]

Start doing axeman ASAP and either:

1) attack his city rightaway
or
2) attack his resources, fortify nearby, dont let him improve tiles (completly cripple him).

IMPORTANT:
Scout ASAP the north part above Shaka. Is he has Iron/Copp and you cannot destroy and fortify it, be very carefull, the Impi has TWO moves.

He will war you very soon, you must be pro active in IHO.

good news!! he doesn't have copper! his cities are still at 0% culture, and he only has a few CGI archers!

edit: crap he has walls tho

 

[fathertuck]

Start doing axeman ASAP and either:

1) attack his city rightaway
or
2) attack his resources, fortify nearby, dont let him improve tiles (completly cripple him).

IMPORTANT:
Scout ASAP the north part above Shaka. Is he has Iron/Copp and you cannot destroy and fortify it, be very carefull, the Impi has TWO moves.

He will war you very soon, you must be pro active in IHO.

I was going to give the exact same advice, but I didn't bother since the OP asked for blocking advices. Shaka is someone you don't want as a neighbour, so I'd definitely try an axmen rush.

 

[CaF]

I'd personally take 1N of copper and 1NW of clams as front blockers and one somewhere in the middle, but on the west side of the river. It won't be his priority target but still place it on the save side. Later we'll see where he expands to and can shift units + walls into that city. That will probably be the copper site.

After those blocks I'd settle 1N of pig and perhaps another city somewhere, then see what's in the west part of the map, how much space Shaka has etc. If he will stay small because he is boxed in, use him for Great Generals. He will deliver.
Shaka is pretty boring in the sense that he just always goes immediately into war mode and attacks the player no matter what. At least in my games he has NEVER declared on someone else than me. Give him some hills to chew on or rush him.

 

[ben-jammin]

Ty for the fast responses -- most of you are saying to get the copper right away.

i tend to forget this... >< im always looking at cities in the modern age, but usually they are still good cities.


I know that shaka has gone to slavery, sadly idk if he has copper.



The SW placement is so tempting. It is a monster city as you say. But a potential problem could be the short term -- with only the FP (farmed) I don't think i have enough food there to have a solid early production city. It'll be size 3, with 2 mines. idk if thats enough to pump out some axemen for a war.

Short term you have 2 forests within the first border. I would not farm the floodplain, I'd cottage it. If you rush Shaka asap it will be an all offense war, you wont need to worry about being pillaged, and that city is going to have a ton of food. Chop a monument, by the time the border pops you'll be working a mined bronze grassland hill and a cottaged floodplain. By the time you're ready to rush this city will be ready to whip axemen and chop the remaining 4 forests in between. The third city i would settle 3w of the clams, monument then library whipping appropriately, this city starts running two scientists asap while your other two pump axemen, save time and forests by not having to build as many settlers. IMO this has all your tiles and population being used as efficiently as possible, plays the locations to their strengths. I dont think you need to worry about Shaka attacking you if you're quick, so choosing weaker locations for a hill efense bonus doesnt make sense, and actually delays your rush. As Portugal both cities with floodplains will have the health penalty canceled out, your settlers can be ready super fast while leaving plenty of trees around your capital for whatever (axes if you think the rush needs it, otherwise pyramids with stone never hurt anybody.

 

[backthief]

good news!! he doesn't have copper! his cities are still at 0% culture, and he only has a few CGI archers!

edit: crap he has walls tho

Thats very good. Just Axe rush him before he finds copper/iron. His archers wont be match for your axeman with Raider I. Watch for Horses as well.

So, whats better, blocking or destroying him and have the whole area just for you?

 

[Nick Carpathia]

Also, do you have a 4000bc save?

 

[michmbk]

Don't forget that Shaka builds lots of units, so you may need more in an offensive war than usual.

If I had time, I'd probably settle 1S of the copper because it's on a hill, so I could get the GP farm later. I'd then probably try to settle 3S of the first site (sharing corn with my capital, which has loads of food) and then 1E of the southern blue circle. The issue then becomes protecting those three cities from an inevitable Shaka war declaration - the hill site is easy to protect, as is the one that's across a river, but the southern city would be a bit more risky.

That would maximize my ability to use floodplains and have a fair amount of overlap, but I never worry about overlap in my cities as long as they each have good tiles.

 

[Mec AntiKythera]

I like 1SE of copper and 2N of stone first, if you want to block, and 1N of pig later.

 

[vanillasine]

So alot has happened in this situation. I went for only 2 cities, which I placed 1S of copper, and then 2N of stone. I then proceeded to produce axemen like crazy for the rush against shaka. Everything was fine except this:

Don't forget that Shaka builds lots of units, so you may need more in an offensive war than usual.

He didn't have copper, but he had a ton of archers, and they were behind walls. He kepts spamming the archers, and at the same time expanding to his east like crazy. I built a force of around 6 axemen or so, with more on the way, and scouted ahead. The north city, not only did it have walls, he had extra archers there, in anticipation of a settler spawning. maybe 6 archers(!) 4 of them with city garrison 1.

I scouted the southern city, and it was better - only 3 defenders, only 1 of them with CG1. I moved my stack into position, and was right about to declare war when all of a sudden on the map, he suddenly had bronze. i believe the 2% or w/e to discover metals/gems etc on the mining hit for him... ARRGHH. At this point he had 5 cities, and spamming more archers and settlers, and about to create his first axemen.

So, whats better, blocking or destroying him and have the whole area just for you?

I really wanted this, but I had to call the rush off. I used 2 axemen each to fortify the 2 border towns (I was considering 3 like many of u suggested) and proceeded to scout the rest of my continent with the rest of the axemen.

here is a SS of the continent--

Spoiler :

At the point where I decided to call off the attack, I switched to building pyramids, and researched writing. It unfortunately took a while. But, i did manage to get the mids and now I am currently growing all my towns to happy cap, running 2 scientists each. Thanks to the city sites I have loads of food. ive already begun building cottages around 3rd city especially. I researched alphabet b/c niether cyrus or shaka had it, and traded it for mathematics from cyrus. shaka doesn't want to trade . im considering converting to budhism to maybe get more out of him (does he trade at pleased? )

I have a fishing boat that has scouted all round the persians to a little island but has not found anyone else. its just me shaka and cyrus. Now that I have explored, this situation for the rest of my empire looks alright. I have lots of land to expand into. So now I have to manage my power meter vs shaka, build some walls in anticipation of attack (im pretty sure, like the rest of u, it'll happen sometime).

So now its time for choosing some sites for the rest of my empire: I want to grab the marble, and potentially get the GL. The south barbarian city is alright i guess: the fish i can use in another city at the very tip, and the clam I can combine with the horses.

Spoiler :

Last for Nick --

Also, do you have a 4000bc save?

I hope I correctly attached the original save. If you do play through it, post some SS! for those that suggested 3 blocking cities to make use of the plains here's your chance

Thanks all for the advice so far!!!