Neon Tetras

Ur Mum

Warlord
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Messages
238
Location
UK
Hey all.

For any interested in tropical fish, i am starting a neon tetra fish tank and writing an online diary/journal as i go.

if anyone is interested, please have a visit. only just started it and not managed to do much to the site yet. (just basic text so far) but i will be improving the site as i go.

take a look by visiting the link in my sig.

*awaits flaming for being a sad nerd*
 
Hi

I'm sorry, but I seriously don't like your tank.

Is it right that you have 10 Neons in a 10 liter tank? Thats just wrong!!! Neons need atleast a 60cm tank (about 54l) so that they have enough room for swimming. You should never have fish in a 10 liter tank! 12 the is the minimum for some specialized fish types like Kilis who in nature life in very small areas too. You should get your fish a nice 54l tank.

I think its good that you bought 10 to form a swarm and that you seem to take carre of your fish, but you cannot give them a nice species-appropriate life in a 10l tank...
 
10 liters of water is not very much for a couple of Neons. The standerd is 1cm of fish for every liter of water. Neon's are at least 2 cm, you can't put 10 of them in there.

Why don't you buy a bigger tank? second hands aren't expensive and if you are lucky you'll get a heating element and filter with it.

You could use this small tank for breeding. :)

EDIT- I agree with Tossi. 10 liter is to little for almost all tropical fish. I like the effort you put in it but please get those guys a bigger tank.
 
i was told by the shop that a 10L tank would be ok for 10 neons. i did check and found this:

http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/Pinnesi.html

altho he did use a bigger 50l tank for breeding, i dont intend to be breeding them as i said. i will go to a diff shop and talk to them tomorrow.
i might just get 6 neons instead of the orginal 10. i not really wanna have less than this tho due to the social aspect. i will review my tank tho.

i do have a bigger tank in the loft which i could use, but it has no lid. altho i guess i could make a wooden one for it. only problem is i have no where to put a bigger tank. kinda restricted by my accommadation.

so i guess my options are either get less fish, or find somewhere to place the bigger tank.

Edit: also i dont think my current filter would be suitible to a larger tank.
 
Never trust animal shop owners. They will tell you everything you want to hear just to get rid of their goods. I hate how they don't care about the animals just to make money.

but there is plenty of research material available on the internet, for instance: http://www.aquahobby.com/gallery/gneon.html

Less fish isn't really an option because even a small amount of neons need place to swim. They'll get crazy in such a small tank. Just make a lid on top of the other tank you have, it's quite easy making one yourself. I did in a couple of months ago for my 50*30*30 tank. And your filter can probably handle a little more than 10 liters of water ;)
 
the only info i got on my filter is that it is a 5Watt filter. (240v 50Hz)
can you tell the amount of water it able to filter from it's power rating?
(yes i live in the UK)

i guess i could fill the big tank to about 12 gallons or so (54L). i not have to completely fill it if the filter can not cope with it completely filled.

and, if i get the bigger tak, i could get a small catfish as well to help with algae removal. (small, ie not tetra eating size)
 
A 54 liter tank sounds a lot better. And you could indeed put a few small catfish in there. They are very cool fish. Put a layer of 3/4 cm of sand or small stones (don't know how it's called in english) on the ground. Some real water plants in it. A piece of wood and voila a great tropical fish tank.

5 watts is about the power you need for a 54 liter tank. I think you'll be allright with that filter. And a new one isn't that expensive either. You have a heating element?

I have Coridora Paleatus as catfish, they stay pretty small and aren't agressive. Would go great with the Neons.
 
gravel = small stones.

no heating element as my bulb on my 10l tank keeps the water @ 75'F.

i could probally survive with my filter. if the tank got dirty i could then buy a better one.

heating elements are probally cheap anyways. i might be able to get 1 off of a friend anyways.
 
Avoid any tank capacity less than 10 gallons. Get a nice little shoal of neons in there, with a few Peppered Corys to patrol the bottom. Use Blackwater extract to soften the water, and get some Java Ferns growing.
 
Neon Tetras can grow to 1.75 inches which is probably larger than you expect. They are carnivores and as such, produce quite a bit of mess. They are also mid-water feeders so will feed better on slow sinking food. Sinking their food works well if you decide to mix them with smaller substrate-feeders like Corydoras sp.

Dried food isn't that good for their digestive tracts, and being carnivores, Tetras will appreciate some (very small) live food occationally.

I don't think you are a sad nerd: I think you should pick up a book on fishkeeping. I'm sorry if that sounds insulting :sad:

However, I won't attack your errors because... well, I was once an authority in this very topic, advised companies, and wrote books on it. I, knowingly, did far worse to the fish in my care than anyone would imagine! :cry:
 
Ur Mum, where in the UK are you?

If you are in the West Midlands, and can collect, I can help you out with equipment. I can't list everything I left there but suffice as to say it would stock a small shop :rolleyes:

Bigger tanks are easier to maintain. Larger bodies of water are more stable, in that the temperature changes only slowly, the pH value, nitrate, nitrite and amonia levels all change slowly: any accidental overdose, overstocking, or overfeeding will have less effect on water conditions. The conditions in small tanks fluctuate which causes stress for the fish and weakens their natural defenses.

Tanks with greater surface area can absorb more oxygen and release carbon-dioxide quicker than tanks with smaller surface area. The formula for how many tropical fish can be kept in a tank is very convenient and easy to remember: 12 inches square will provide enough oxygen for 1 inch of fish (excluding tail) - but consider that the fish will grow!

Note that the rules are different for marine and cold water fish.

Airstones have a place but the bubbles of air do little to increase the amount of oxygen disolved in water, but the agitation (waves) caused on the water surface do slightly increase total surface area but don't abuse it as a means of overstocking the tank.

There are many ways to change your water conditions for specific species. Neon Tetras (and many close relatives) come from Amazon tributaries, where the pH value is probably around 6.5 or very slightly acid and the water is soft, but captive bred tetras are very hardy so don't worry about that. Such details are only an issue with wild imports, and that only applies to very rare species. Most of the fish you will encounter are captive bred: either from overseas fish farms, or local enthusiasts.

In your tank, I predict the Amonia and Nitrite levels will rise, but not as much as Nitrate. You will know when the Nitrate levels are too high because the fish will scratch themselves on hard surfaces - and thick algae grows everywhere. Keep this under control by conducting partial water changes and adding fast growing plants. I would recommend Duckweed (not Pondweed) that has been previously treated for parisites.

Duckweed is a tiny floating plant with only one leaf, and it reproduces quickly. It will consume nitrate, and out-compete most types of algae. It will also reduce the amount of light penetrating the water which the fish will appreciate and this will also help starve algae, and keeps the water crystal clear. Just scoop some duckweed out when there is too much of it.

If you have any questions, I probably already wrote the answers. Just do as I say, don't do as I do... :(

P.S. Many plants are harder to keep than the fish ;)
 
I read your page, and I have some suggestions:

The only reason for leaving the water for upto two weeks is to let the poisonous chlorine escape. You can accelerate this by agitating the water with airstones, or by boiling it.

You appear to have misunderstood the causes of rising nitrate levels. Thriving plants will indeed help, but taking that path is difficult.

New tanks normally suffer nitrite and amonia booms, which is completely different.

Judging by their anatomy, I think Neon Tetras would naturally live in open areas of water with slight current. One family of plants worth considering is Valisinaria sp. which is grass-like but grows very tall - you would probably want some kind of cultured pygmy version. In nature, such plants would harbour the predators that prey on small fish like Neon Tetras :p

Many of the plants sold in pet stores are actually bog plants (semi-aquatic), and they will die in a fish tank after a couple of weeks or so... then you have to go back and buy more :lol:

Plants look good in the shop because they have only been there a few days.

Dead plant matter will cause it's own nitrate problems. Remove any damaged leaves before planting.

CO2 can be artificially disolved into the tank water to boost plant growth.

Here's the crunch: Rooted plants will make cleaning the sand or gravel difficult, fish waste and uneaten food left to rot in the gravel will cause more problems than the plants solve. You may need to make a choice between which matters most: plants or fish?

Recreating a natural ecosystem would be very hard, and to put it bluntly: You just don't have the resources to do it! :(

I worked in Icthyology. Plants are outside my area of expertise, but they were used: In my experience, the most sustainable tanks had either a substrate, or many plants - not both! The reason for this was purely maintenance and the needs of fish.
 
Corsair, you never read my Public Profile! How could you? :cry:
 
wow stormblind. thanks for all the advice.

i have already brought some pondweed by the time i read your posts. i have a medium amount in the tank, not sure if this will help things or not however.
i will be leaving the tank for another 4 months to settle down, hopefully balance all the chemicals to a stable level (also cos i not getting anohter paycheck till next month ;)) I've brought a 25W heater in the tank and that's keeping the water quite a stable temperture. and it's keeping water temperature between 75-77F. (i've checked it often during the last couple of days and it's always been between that.)

my filter i have in there is keeping the water surface rippled which is good for the CO2/oxygen. before i buy the fish i'll probaly buy a water test kit. (i think you can get combination kits which test nitrates and amonia)

i am getting spome crushed corel to use for gravel tomorrow. from what i've heard it is one of the best things to use as it contains a benefital chemical in it. altho i'm interested in your opinon on that.

i'll be updating the site later tonight and i'll include a photo of my current setup. (although i blew my bulb last night and now have no lighting. but i'll get 1 tomorrow probally.)

so i might wait till after i get the blub before posting a piccie. i'll be updating the site quite often to let everyone who's interested to keep up-to-date on my progress and see how things are going.

thanks again for all your advice.
 
Re: Test kits. You can buy kits to tests the nitrogen cycle which I shall explain briefly:

All animals produce amonia. Because fish produce it, their bodies have higher amonia levels than the environment around them. Through a process called osmosis, amonia molecules move freely through fish membranes until both the fish and the environment have the same levels. Bacteria in the environment consume the amonia, and so the process continues with the fish continually getting rid of amonia = happy fish :)

If your fish tank doesn't have enough bacteria to consume the amonia, then the fish dies of amonia poisoning. Nitrite is similar.

Nitrate is the end product of the nitrogen cycle. In a natural ecosystem, nitrate is absorbed only by plants. Most fishkeepers prefer to do a partial water change to dilute the nitrates and other foreign substances *

I consider nitrate test kits more valuable, because nitrates are an ongoing concern. In contrast, your amonia/nitrite levels are only going to rise if you kill or remove the bacteria in your tank. You can do this in two ways: 1) Poison the bacteria, or 2) remove the filter containing the colonies of bacteria.

For this reason, you will only want to test for amonia & nitrite when your filter is new, or you added some chemicals to the water. The petstore can probably test a water sample for you, for less than the cost of a kit.

Re: Your plants. There are different species of Pondweed.

Although I wouldn't use it (I already mentioned a preference for Duckweed), your Pondweed will grow very quickly and absorb lots of nitrates. You will want to remove the plants when they grow too big, cut off the old stems, and return the new growth to your tank. It probably looks dark with many leaves atm, but when growing quicker (i.e. in a warm tank under a tungsten bulb) it will look lighter and be less dense.

Re: Substrate - for colonies of bacteria.

Do not use coral: It will disolve calcium into the water making it very hard. This is fine for marine fish, but with the exception of some African species, it will result in undesireable water conditions for freshwater fish. Tetras prefer softer water. You can test your water for hardness (dH) but it's not normally required.

Tetras won't care what the substrate is, and it deprives them of swimming space anyway. Larger pebbles are easier to clean. Most fish prefer a dark substrate that reflects least light.

Substrate feeders (i.e. catfish, many cyprinids, loaches, eels &c.) will care about the substrate because they live on - and sometimes in - it! Substrates with sharp edges can damage their soft mouths, bodies, barbels, or other extensions. They like to move substrate around and uproot your plants. Because your fish would be small, they need a substrate made of smaller particles. I would suggest using very small rounded stones, or sand, but it's harder to clean.

You could try unusual substrates such as wood or zeolite. Zeolite is a porous white ore that absorbs amonia, but you will need to remove the granules from your tank before you can release the amonia trapped in them. Quite useful stuff :)

Some woods and sands release toxins into the water so you cannot take random stuff from the garden.

Whatever substrate used will need cleaning to remove dust: stick it in a clean bucket and run it under tapwater until the water runs clear. I suggest buying a new bucket just for fishkeeping, because you don't want the residue of any household cleaning stuff getting into your small ecosystem, and you will often need a bucket :p

They might think your are nuts, but ask the petshop for a tiny sample of gravel from a tank (containing only healthy fish) because their gravel will be thriving with the bacteria you're hoping to cultivate.

* There are lots of other ways to remove amonia, nitrite, & nitrate from water. Your tapwater may also contain an amount of these substances - but you probably use the same tapwater as the local petshop so the fish are used to it :p
 
i'm going to be doing partial water changes regularly anyways. probally not change too much, just a couple of litres every 2 weeks.

about the sample of gravel, i will do that when i buy the fish. i would not have thought of that, but now u mentionned it, i think it very clever.

i will not use the corel now, i'll get some normal gravel from the shop. i dont think i will get a catfish, i'll manage the algea and plant growth myself. i'll put enough to cover the bottom of the tank and enough to bed the plants in.

about the plants, removing of dead leaves and replanting new stems will be done any time i see it needs it.

you mentionned in an earlier post about tetras being carnivors. i'll probally be able to buy a few bloodworm to give every now and again. also i thought about feeding tiny cuttings of meat. (like beef or lamb). just occasionally to give some variey to their diet.

about feeding, how often should i feed them flake food? i've read 2 times a day which sounds about right, but i thought i'd ask you as well.

also, how vunerable are tetras to water temperature change. the reason i ask this is because it's a 30 min drive for me to get home from the fish shop. i know that as it a gradual decrease it shouldnt be a problem, but i was wondering if 30 mins drive would be harmful.

and about adding the fish to the water. i know they should be left in the bag for about 30mins in the tank to climatize. (to avoid shock due to sudden change in temp) but should i also mix the water between the 2 during this process.
i read some where that pericing the bag with a needle a couple of times when first putting in the tank slowly exchanges the water and so there is no sudden change of water conditions. other places suggest letting water be exchanged bit by bit via dippig the open top in the tank water. whereas other places advise not to exchange any water untill u release the fish.

personally the pierced bag sounds the best idea as it's a slow, but continuous change of water which happens automatically while the water temperature eqates.
 
They are carnivores, and on larger specimens (not the babies seen in shops) you can probably make out the very tiny sharp teeth, but they are only tiny predators and would probably ignore the things you mentioned. Tetras are in the same family as Pirhanas. The Characidae family contains 776 species: their most distinguishing feature is a small jelly-like fin behind the main dorsal fin. There are vegetarian examples aswell :)

Any worms might be too big to fit in a tetra's mouth, and they sink to the substrate, so I would not advise them. Small crustacea such as Daphnids (Daphnidae sp?) would be more suitable for adult tetras - don't add food the fish ignore, as it will die and polute the water. Test them with one or two daphnids and see what happens.

30 minutes won't be a big deal and the store probably has their tanks a couple of degrees higher than normal to accelerate their metabolism - it keeps the fish active & looking their best.

It is sudden changes in temperature which need avoiding. Mixing new water with the old is good, but mixing old water with the new is a bad idea.

Few people care about small easilly replaced tetras, but this is the proceedure I followed for valued specimens:

1. Because your tank is small, you might to remove some water so it doesn't overflow when you put a bag in it. The shop might add chemicals to the bag to boost fish immune systems.

2. Dry the bag to remove residue. Put it in the tank, open it, and roll the sides down - so it floats with a ring of air around it's perimeter. Leave it floating in your tank for 20-30 minutes to let the temperatures syncronise.

3. Replace some of the water in the bag with tank water to acclimatise the fish to new water chemistry. Wait a few minutes. Repeat if desired.

4. Lift the fish out of it's bag and release it into the tank. The protective mucous membranes on the fish allow water to run off - leaving it in the bag. However: because these are small fish, tilting the bag onto it's side to let the fish swim out may be easier :p

5. Because the bag water contains fish waste or may be of otherwise poor quality, and because it may contain paracites, do not add it to your tank.

However, it takes practice to catch and move fish, so the above may not be practical. Also, because the shop probably shares the same water supply, the chemistry issues are less of a concern. It is different for fish which have just been shipped long distances.
 
How often to feed is a tricky issue.

Show fish (yeah - some people do display them for prizes!) are often fattened up to give them a smoother shape. These are fed whatever they will eat within a few minutes, at least twice each day.

Shop fish are often skiny, because (1) they have not been in the shop for long and lost a lot of weight in transport, (2) the shop keeper wants to save money, and (3) fish that are hungry move around more, which looks healthier.

Dead fish are often found in poluted water with uneaten rotting food. Do not add more food than the fish will eat within a few minutes!

Adult fish can go for 2 weeks without a meal. Do not worry about missing a feeding time: it is better that they clean up the environment while looking for food, than be surrounded in piles of hastilly added junk food.

P.S. Do not buy fish that are emaciated or have swollen stomachs. There coud be many causes for this, and feeding isn't ussually it! The common exceptions are specialist feeders which sometimes don't get enough to eat in captivity.
 
All this talk of fish reminds me that I wanted to be a diver in some kind of public aquarium; it's a shame I don't know anything about marine mammals. I'm also petrified of sharks I know to be harmless :lol:
 
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