New Orleans descends into anarchy. NO official: Federal efforts "a national disgrace"

zulu9812 said:
This might have been said before, but I'll say it again. The reason that there aren't enough military + home guard personel & transport to cover the relief effort is because... they're all in Iraq! :crazyeye:

Enjoying the misery I see zulu. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Oh and BTW LA had 75% of it's national guard troop in the state. :rolleyes: There are rules stating that the Pentagon will Federalise no more then 50% of national guard troops. :rolleyes:
 
Azadre said:
Actually, you are incorrect. Do you know anything about psychology? There is Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs. In order to satisfy the tops ones, you must satsify the one below. A person will strive to establish a method of sustaining his or her physiology before they are concerned with the security around them. In essence, if we lose our foundation we will crumble into a primal state of being. The situation is similar to Lord of the Flies. Civilization does not exist when you cannot survive without killing another person, only anarchy.

True, but the idiots in question are not shooting at helicopters or stealing DVD players because they are starving. Where does "personal electronics" fall on the Heirarchy of Needs?
 
IglooDude said:
True, but the idiots in question are not shooting at helicopters or stealing DVD players because they are starving. Where does "personal electronics" fall on the Heirarchy of Needs?
There IS organized crime in New Orleans, just as there is in any major city. Also, individuals strive for happiness in one shape or another. When left to die, they get this happiness by taking lost electronics for themselves. I am just happy they are alive after this.
 
Who cares if they're stealing DVDs? Let them waste their energy doing that while we go after the people that need help.
 
Turner_727 said:
Yup....you're underestimating the power of an idiot. Especially a scared, hungry hurt one.
But give an idiot a gun, and you turn him into a killer...
 
IglooDude said:
True, but the idiots in question are not shooting at helicopters or stealing DVD players because they are starving. Where does "personal electronics" fall on the Heirarchy of Needs?

Well, it isn't so illogical as it seems. They have nothing. After they leave the ruins of New Orleans, they will have nothing. No place to go, no money, no clothes, no food, nothing. So if they loot some jewellery and get some valuable stuff, they hope they will have at least something to start with.

In short: they have nothing to lose except their own lifes.

BTW by this I don't advocate their behaviour. Just trying to understand the logic of a looter.
 
You guys seem to be giving no thought whatsoever to the people that theyre stealing from. If it was your property being stolen, youd feel differently Im sure.
 
"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." He added, "Now we're having to deal with it, and will."

Then why did I here for like two days before the hurricane struck that levees could break, from numerous people from meteorologists to engineers? Sickening...he lies even now...
 
Bozo Erectus said:
You guys seem to be giving no thought whatsoever to the people that theyre stealing from. If it was your property being stolen, youd feel differently Im sure.

nope I wouldn't. first of all, it's insured, and I would have written it off anyway in a city that's almost completely destroyed......

I find it a appalling that you're so fast pointing the finger at the NOers when lootings are pretty normal in any major city during a long blackout. and in NO the situation is even worse, since a large part of the law enforcement infrastructure has been destroyed/disabled.

as someone said earlier in one of these threads. disasters like these tend to bring out the best in some people and the worst in others. that's the same everywhere in the world, be it New Orleans, New York, Basel or Baghdad....
 
Bozo Erectus said:
You guys seem to be giving no thought whatsoever to the people that theyre stealing from. If it was your property being stolen, youd feel differently Im sure.
Assuming it survived all the flooding, I'd be pissed yeah, but we can't just listen to those that evacuated and are having some necklaces taken and to try to stop looting before we even bother rescuing.
 
Because they can. Why else?
 
Bozo Erectus said:
You guys seem to be giving no thought whatsoever to the people that theyre stealing from. If it was your property being stolen, youd feel differently Im sure.

If it was my home they were breaking into, then yes I'd care. If it was my store, and I figured (as I do right now) that the store will be a complete loss anyway, I don't think I'd care - I'd have already taken the cash out of the safe. Them stealing from stores IS stealing, and it is wrong, but to worry about it right now smacks of arresting jaywalkers while someone is getting raped 100yards down the street.
 
IMO there'd be a lot less lawlessness if there were any signs of progress or promise of restoring order on the part of FEMA officials and the federal government. I'm pretty much outraged at this point that we're pouring billions of dollars into FEMA and homeland security so that they can hand out Keynesian pork-barrel construction contracts hand over fist, and then they react this impotently when a catastrophe actually does occur (let alone that a hurricane to NO has long been one of the worst-case scenarios of the south, and that they were supposed to be preparing for such an event years ago).

To add insult to injury, FEMA director Mike Brown did an interview last night where IMO he came across as an uncaring elitist jerk (and also echoed the ridiculous 'unpredictably adding flooding to a hurricane made it a double' excuse): link

The part where he blames the victims:
And on top of that, even though there were mandatory evacuations and voluntary evacuations called for, literally hundreds of thousands of people for whatever reasons-- I'm not going to second guess - but for whatever reasons --chose or could not evacuate.

The part where he admits that the victims were ignored beforehand:
The second part of my answer, Jim, which, I think, again, the American people understand how fascinating and unusual this is -- is that we're seeing people that we didn't know exist that suddenly are showing up on bridges or showing up on overpasses or parts of the interstate that aren't inundated, and that now we're trying to get to them by Coast Guard helicopter to at least get them some immediate relief so we can start airlifting them out.

From those two, I take away that:
A) In its wisdom, a massive emergency agency never considered the fact that any major city would require concerted, large-scale, pre-emptive evacuation efforts for its poor.
B) FEMA, in watching billions of dollars change hands, never allocated even .01% of that for even reasonably accurate population estimates of major population centers.

IMO, given A and B, FEMA is either grossly incompetent or downright unconcerned with those without the means to help themselves.
 
Winner said:
Well, it isn't so illogical as it seems. They have nothing. After they leave the ruins of New Orleans, they will have nothing. No place to go, no money, no clothes, no food, nothing. So if they loot some jewellery and get some valuable stuff, they hope they will have at least something to start with.

In short: they have nothing to lose except their own lifes.

BTW by this I don't advocate their behaviour. Just trying to understand the logic of a looter.

I see what you mean, but man, I just gotta think that trying to escape an area that must fast be turning into an open sewer would be higher on the list than staying and getting a cart full of Nike sneakers.
 
KaeptnOvi said:
nope I wouldn't. first of all, it's insured, and I would have written it off anyway in a city that's almost completely destroyed......

I find it a appalling that you're so fast pointing the finger at the NOers when lootings are pretty normal in any major city during a long blackout. and in NO the situation is even worse, since a large part of the law enforcement infrastructure has been destroyed/disabled.

as someone said earlier in one of these threads. disasters like these tend to bring out the best in some people and the worst in others. that's the same everywhere in the world, be it New Orleans, New York, Basel or Baghdad....

Kaeptn, I'll try to make you understand where Im coming from: Whether youre in the US or Switzerland or wherever, doesnt matter. The only thing that maintains the nice lifestyle we all enjoy is law and order. Law and order is what allows you to work, or go to school. Because of law and order you can go to a store and buy things, and also thanks to law and order, you dont have to worry too much about being killed on the way home from the store. People who have no respect for law and order, who would take advantage of their own neighbors after a major disaster, and steal from them, rape them or kill them, are your enemy, just as surely as theyre mine, whether you realise it or not.
 
Sneakers could be practical, given all the glass and everything else that must be laying around.
 
IglooDude said:
Them stealing from stores IS stealing, and it is wrong, but to worry about it right now smacks of arresting jaywalkers while someone is getting raped 100yards down the street.

my thoughts exactly :goodjob:
 
IglooDude said:
I see what you mean, but man, I just gotta think that trying to escape an area that must fast be turning into an open sewer would be higher on the list than staying and getting a cart full of Nike sneakers.

Well, I don't how is the situation there, but I guess they simply can't leave by foot. Entire area is devastated. So they wait in the streets for help. Some of them loot to get some water and food, some to get money. And some of them are bastards and rape, shoot at police etc.

I think we should make a differences between these groups.
 
@Yankee and Igloo, sure all that stuff is ruined anyway, but thats not the point. You cant sit back and watch law and order break down like that. Youre just creating a much bigger fight for yourself later on if it isnt nipped in the bud right from the start. The people you watch breaking store windows with sledgehammers to steal sneakers, later they'll be doing other things, like breaking into gun shops.
 
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