News: BOTM 10 Pre-game Discussion

[Lexad]

About fort - can't test now, but I believe that if you find a river on the landmass with stone and connect it with a road to the river and see all the shore from your city to river's mouth (unoccupied by hostile culture or blockade), you can connect stone w/o building a city on its landmass.

DS - did you have Sailing when testing? Was the fort onshore?

 

[Gosha190]

He must know culture tresholds in that case.
at epic speed
15 - 1-st expansion
150 - 2-d
750 - 3-d...

I think he just wanted to see culture expansion in a progress.

 

[blastoidstalker]

For tectonics map script, I played it a couple of times a long whilke ago back when it was not standard map script but a user download.

The idea of it is to try to create mpore realistic landmasses and atmospheric patterns basic on plate tectonics and to a lesser extent global air circulation. The map will most likely have at least 2 continents maybe more. these continents will usualy have mountain ranges on one edge of them (the leading edge of the plate and may have other linear hill changes on other mareginc or mid plate. Tile types tend to be more clumped than a typical map with larger expanses of hills, mountains, grasslands, deserts etc. I seem to recal resources bieng clumped to like the clams in the opening picture. I remeber the maps bieng fairly big for the map size.

 

[Yamps]

@Stone connecting

It seems to me from looking at the maps DS posted that if we settle 1N of the starting position that we'll get the stone with second third culture expansion after all. EDIT: third is a bit late...

If we build the fort where the scout now is and have Sailing I'm pretty sure that we'll get the Stone in the capitol!

This is only theoretical, somebody cares to post a test map?

 

[karmina]

Third culture expansion is too late for the Great Wall; furthermore it only works if it's not a separate landmass, and if there are rivers.
So I'll probably settle in place and build the 2nd city near the stone. Still wondering if I should take the adventurer bonus...

 

[JerichoHill]

I'll take the aforementioned Gauntlet condition. I figure if I survive long enough it'll be worth it.

It would seem that, for a contender start, the best bet would be to research fishing, use the clams to spam a few settlers, maybe get 4 cities, use the golden wall strategy.

I'm bothered by the lack of any happy resources...hereditary rule?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

erm, you can edit the city culture in citi menu in WB

I don't trust Worldbuilder so I wanted to make sure what I was seeing was culture growing outside Worldbuilder. (As Gosha190 correctly guessed).

 

[azzaman333]

I think a fort needs a road to be able to send the resource across water.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

About fort - can't test now, but I believe that if you find a river on the landmass with stone and connect it with a road to the river and see all the shore from your city to river's mouth (unoccupied by hostile culture or blockade), you can connect stone w/o building a city on its landmass.

DS - did you have Sailing when testing? Was the fort onshore?

That does all sound plausible and possible but I don't know for sure. I didn't have sailing in my test - which is a good point, that would've invalidated my test anyway, which means Gosha190 may have been correct.

I'll leave it for somone who's actually playing this BOTM to test it if anyone is sufficiently interested

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Here's an excellent summary (clearly showing the imba of it) by vale:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=218272

OK thanks. Reading it, I think I'd see it as an unfortunate exploit but it's not something it would be realistic to ban in the competition. It's a way of micromanaging your forest chops and whips that lets you convert hammers into cash at a very favourable rate. You can do that anyway by building and not completing double-production-speed wonders (although with less predictability for when you'll actually get the cash). By using the exploit you get a lot of cash, but it does cost you valuable forests and/or the having to use a whip on your population, plus a certain amount of tedious micromanagement. I don't particularly like the exploit, but if people want to use it they are free to do so.

 

[Gnejs]

OK thanks. Reading it, I think I'd see it as an unfortunate exploit but it's not something it would be realistic to ban in the competition. It's a way of micromanaging your forest chops and whips that lets you convert hammers into cash at a very favourable rate. You can do that anyway by building and not completing double-production-speed wonders (although with less predictability for when you'll actually get the cash). By using the exploit you get a lot of cash, but it does cost you valuable forests and/or the having to use a whip on your population, plus a certain amount of tedious micromanagement. I don't particularly like the exploit, but if people want to use it they are free to do so.

When I asked Ainwood (or was it AlanH? I can't tell them apart... ) during SGTOM6 he told me that it seemed a clever use of traits and resources and would be allowed since it didn't give something for free. Basically, the cost is worker turns and forests that could be used to give more long-lasting benefits than a one-time bag of gold. I believe we used it once or twice during SGOTM6 but not more than that. We simply didn't have the worker turns to spare. Though perhaps in a longer lasting game on a forest-rich map it could be exploited.

 

[kcd_swede]

10: stone +100%, defencive +100% to the real hammer amount. Limit? How many tiles you can chop per single turn? I think you'll find limit there

Thx... I get it. Sounds like a reasonble thing to try for... if I live that long.
@Lexad: Thanks for bringing it up, and for the link!

 

[srad]

Climate: Cold?
Can't modify this option when choosing map type Tectonics. What about the "Aridity Level"?


Hm, this is not an easy start for me. What to do first? Building a scout or warrior or a worker?
Techpath: Fisching, AH, Mining, ...?

Anyone knows when the AI tends to build the pyramids on deity? 1500BC or earlier?

 

[Lexad]

@Gnejs - please, read the link, esp about lategame. It really is imbalanced, but currently not fixed. I hope they will nerf it, e.g. by giving only base hammers overflow.

 

[Gnejs]

@Gnejs - please, read the link, esp about lategame. It really is imbalanced, but currently not fixed. I hope they will nerf it, e.g. by giving only base hammers overflow.

A map without forests would also work...

 

[Lexad]

I've made a little study on forts. You do not even need Sailing (or even Fishing), but you do need Masonry. If the resource on a separate landmass is in your culture, has fort and is connected by road or river to the shore fort, it is available to you.

Note: the road is a must, even if it is a 1-fort system, like the stone on the screenshot.

 

[karmina]

Here's a test game with the correct settings and starting location (btw to choose "cold" you need to choose it on a different map script, then switch to tectonic. It seems to have some effect, given the large amount of ice I spotted.)

For the worst possible wonder scenario I took (at least) 3 industrious civs.
First impression: Impossible to get access to the stone in time for early wonders, even with the Adventurer bonus...

2750 Stonehenge
2650 Hindu Shrine(!)
2525 Great Wall
1850 Great Lighthouse
1575 Oracle
1400 Pyramids
Two of the AI I met have 9 cities in 1000BC, the others 5.

Barb Archers at 2225 BC, 3 Galleys plundered my clam around 1500 BC.
Tokugawa got Alphabet at 2000BC, probably from a goody hut.

Good luck everyone

P.S.: to make it ultra-clear, none of the above wonders was built by me

/EDIT: On second try, I managed to whip the Great Wall in 2400 and chop the Pyramids in 1650. I concentrated on founding my 2nd city right on the stone as soon as possible, researching AH afterwards. (Adventurer)

 

[srad]

Here's a test game ....

Thank you for the test game and the infos!

Btw, I miss the challenger save

 

[Yamps]

@Forts

So strange that you don't need Sailing...

@Karmina

Thanks for the saves! I just hope I don't get an early DoW again...

 

[reuster]

Anybody sees any reason not to settle in place?

What about settling 1E? You give up 1 ocean, 1 coast, 1 clam/coast, and the defensive bonus, but you get 1 grassland, 1 plain, and 1 forest/plain (maybe hill?). I would give 1 ocean + 2 coast for 1 grassland + 2 plains any day, not just for the base terrain but also on the off chance there's some copper/iron lurking there. Also, with 2 other clams and a cow in the BFC, the loss of the third clam shouldn't be a problem (if you settle a city on the stone, it will get the lost clam anyway). I don't like giving up the defensive bonus on deity, which is the only reason I would consider settling in place.