News: BOTM 100 - Starts 1 Feb - Prince, 100th Anniversary Game!

[Seraiel]

I read speed is Normal, by the way, not Epic.

Thx for that info, I have mis-read, the original game was on Epic and this one is on Normal.

My question however was, and I hope that someone will answer it, because he won't get any advantages from me by not doing so because I'll play out 1-2 test-games otherwise, if a Chariot-rush is needed or if even a Warrior-rush is feasible. With a Warrior-rush, settling on the Marble becomes a very good option, with a Chariot-rush however anything except SIP would be stupid. SIP also has the very strong option of the GLH in the capital and I assume that Prince AIs are simply not able to construct any World Wonders so one could capture them so we probably will need to construct everything ourselves. These are very important questions. Ofc., Marble is the better spot, but if the trade-off is, that one could have an extra capital spot when SIPing + the GLH earlier, then Marble + Settler may become very unattractive. I wish we had info on how far the nearest AI is, because this is probably what decides about this early, maybe game deciding gamble. I really like that we're able to see that much of the mainland, but what it actually does is, that it makes the earliest decision + luck the most important factors, and that's not good imo. . Maybe, the info on the nearest AI should be published therefore.

If you go for culture btw., don't forget that SIPing may be the only chance for you to get Buddhism or Hinduism, whichever you prefer. I don't think that we can rely on getting any religionspread in this game and if we do again it's luck.

I hope that someone will spare me playing those 1-2 test-games or that we'll get the info on the nearest AI, because I don't like playing out test-games for anything but will have no chance, because this is the 1st time I play Prince since I know CFC (so the 1st time I ever play CIV with at least partly knowing what I'm doing) and I'm not willing to play several hours on a game that I lost in T0.

 

[Pangaea]

This is Prince and you regularly beat the AI on Deity. Pretty sure you won't lose on T0

It's one of the things I like in the very brief experience with GOTM so far. It's only one map and everybody have the same starting point. You can't just reroll maps thousand times until you get that "perfect storm". You have one chance, and need to go with it, and make the best of whatever choices you made in the beginning.

One can try to warrior rush, and if the AIs are close by, it can have huge benefits. But it can also mess you up pretty badly if it fails. Therefore I like to play these games a bit more traditional. It's one of the reasons I don't like the Challenge games, especially the short conquest type maps. Just take ridiculous risks until it pays off.

Not decided whether to SIP or go for Marble. Given it's Prince, we probably have some time to get up the GLH in a 2nd or even 3rd city, and Marble does look strong. But SIP isn't bad either, and has other benefits. Chariot rushing would be easier for instance, and that's a good deal less risky than a warrior rush, particularly because we know there are horses in 3rd ring.

 

[Jastrow]

Anyone have a clue what typical GLH dates are on prince?

I am thinking of building it in city 3, which likely brings it in around turn 75 (1000 BC). Will it still be around by then on Prince? My instinct says yes, but I am feeling uncertain...

 

[Seraiel]

Anyone have a clue what typical GLH dates are on prince?

I am thinking of building it in city 3, which likely brings it in around turn 75 (1000 BC). Will it still be around by then on Prince? My instinct says yes, but I am feeling uncertain...

I got GLH in city 3 at 1120BC iirc. in the Frederick game and somebody else got it even later and that game was Monarch.

Hth and still hoping somebody will answer my questions (and DynamicSpirit will think about giving the information that I asked for) before the game starts tomorrow aswell .

@ Pangaea: I didn't write that I could lose on T0 against the AIs ^^ .

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Anybody joining me on revealing which kind of victory condition he might go for? I've given that info aswell, anybody using it as a motivation against me will fail . No, simply would be interesting to know, against whom I'm probably playing . It was Mitchum that told me, that GOTM players sometimes give away that info, and that this creates one of the most interesting situations in GOTM. Imagine WastinTime would state, that he's also going for Space, would I change my plan and go for diplo or try to get revenge for GM-134? What if Jastrow would decide that he goes for Space, because he wants to beat his master and shoot his 2nd goal against me? What if nocho, who now knows how much time I'm willing to spend on a game spends 10 times as much time on his game, and owns WastinTime, Jastrow and me? What if Kaitzilla secretly reads WastinTime's mind again, when WastinTime states that he goes for Diplomatic and Kaitzilla knows that this means Domination?

At least be so kind and write that you're competing in this game, but don't leave us with nothing because you're afraid for a more open competition. Nothing is less interesting than somebody winning something without making any appearance and with saying nothing .

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I'll probably go for Score/Domination but may backtrack into a Space Race if the conditions are favourable.


@ What distance are the closest AIs ? Is a warrior rush better than a chariot rush ?
It's the role of the Scout unit to answer that question.
Up to the player to make his own decision, not the mapmaker.

 

[nocho]

@Seraiel, I certainly think DS shouldn't give any more info than he has given. We already have more map info than usual and know about horse and the non-existence of iron/bronze in the visible area, that's already waaaaay more info than usual. What's next, just revealing the whole map? Just play the map with the knowledge that you're given. If somebody wants to warrior rush, well, that's a high risk/reward decision. I'm certainly not going to do it, warrior rushing is way to gimmicky to me anyway. Maybe on chieftain/warlords level it's always viable, prince, well, you may pull it off, maybe not. If somebody ends up with 2 AI capitals by 2000BC fine for them and it may win some laurels, but to me that'd be basically irrelevant and I won't compare the rest of my game to theirs. I'm much more interested in comparing "normal" approaches, not freak results.

Also, remember this is GOTM, not HOF. We're here to play an interesting game to the best of our abilities and of course anyone likes beating the others, but let's not pretend it's "important" if somebody with a lucky fluke has a marvelous opening. He might as well just screw up this month's game (although as of 2016 another one will come soon enough ).

What if nocho, who now knows how much time I'm willing to spend on a game spends 10 times as much time on his game, and owns WastinTime, Jastrow and me?

With all due respect, I might one day own you and Jastrow, but I know I won't own WastinTime, ever, hehe. I'm not totally useless at this game, but I find it fascinating that, like in many other aspects of life, there are some people that are just in another league (anyone can fill in whom). They themselves probably just shrug about it, which make it all the more intangible -and fascinating.

As to what my VC will be, dunno. If I wanna work on my 3rd eptathlon it might be conquest, religious or culture, but if it looks like a great space map, which could very well be the case, might just try that, especially after all the interesting discussion in BOTM97. Or dom, or UN, really, the good thing about GOTM is that you can decide as you go.

 

[elitetroops]

Regarding warrior/chariot rushing, it's not only about how far the closest AI are, it also depends on who they are. If you start next to a leader with militaristic flavor who starts with hunting, he might go straight for archery. If the neighbor doesn't start with hunting and has no militaristic flavor/reason to research hunting, it can take very long before they tech archery. In that case, a chariot rush with 2 chariots quite late can work just fine. (Tip for prince and below HoF games: choose AI that are slow to archery and you can get a ton of free capitals.)

I've never played any GOTM, might play this one if I can find enough time. Now seems like a good time to start, so I know the map when BOTM 200 comes up.

And I agree with everyone saying that no more info should be revealed about the map.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

For the avoidance of doubt... I do not intend to reveal any further information about the map.

 

[Jastrow]

I start pretty much every game thinking space, and this one will be no different. Sometimes I change my mind along the way, so no promises however.

 

[WastinTime]

If I have time for it, I'd probably do space and settle on Marble.

 

[lymond]

Should be a great map for Space indeed, so I will cheese an AP victory

 

[nocho]

Should be a great map for Space indeed, so I will cheese an AP victory

That's the right spirit!

 

[ikotomi]

I don't think you get that much out of planning warrior/chariot rush from the beginning. AI still doesn't start with a worker, and their bonuses aren't crazy, so early cities captured aren't going to be that great compared to your own in a traditional start.

I think Prince should give you plenty of time to get writing, see how pathetic they are, and build a few chariots in reaction. Last game I played around that level was BoTM 95 on Noble, and Willem had 2 cities at 1 AD and all warriors.

 

[Seraiel]

@ nocho: (Neither ment arrogant nor anything else) : If you think you can own me, then you can also own WastinTime, because I beat WastinTime's 3M Highscore after playing CIV for about 1y (ok, he teached me on how to do it and scored 4.8M one month later, but it was 1:0 for me ) and he wrote that he didn't compete in GM-137, because I won Space in 695AD and he expected the lowest possible date to be 650AD, and didn't found it spectacular enough to beat me by 20y (which I assume is the truth because he beat me by a large margin in GM-134, but officially, it's 1:0 , 1:1 , 1:2 and 2:2 which is supported by the fact, that my 695AD Spacerace is just in a completely different league than his 700AD one, which were almost the same words that he used to describe it ) . If Jastrow beat me, then Jastrow also has the skill to beat WastinTime, so if you think you can own Jastrow, that also means that you have possibilities of beating WastinTime . I'm also amazed at the results he scores, but Wastin spent the whole last year on SGOTM, he's not trained in playing currently but trained in disagreeing with Lowthercastle, this is an advantage. Also, Wastin is trained on heavy Gold starts, Incans and Marathon, he may still be the better player, but is he also better on these settings?

@ Jastrow & WT: So then it's settled, you go for Space and score 2nd and 3rd .

Nice to see so many answers btw. and nice to also see elitetroops joins us . I'll inform the beast aswell, he already had Jesus with him in his last game (see Story & Tales if interested, very well written story with his usual sympathetic style ) , so I hope he'll be on mine this time .

Thx for the info on the Warrior-rush btw. . It's still a hard call though. Even if taking the Marble to settle on, the Scout would need to find the next CIV until the end of T3 so one could make the decision based on the civ having Hunting or not. I'm a little traumatized, since a certain player beat me by 2 milleniums because he Warrior-rushed on Deity (Marathon, but still ) . This might really be a game-winning all-in option. Get the best possible capital, don't even build a Worker but build a 2 tile and get the 2nd city for as little as 30 instead of 100 for a Settler. Could be, that 60 minimum are needed, but I've even read of Warrior-walk-ins on Prince sometimes (don't think that's possible without a starting Warrior though) .

 

[Jastrow]

BTW, I *might* actually have a very vague recollection of playing this map... I woke up this morning having the feeling that the 3 islands we see in the south of the starting picture are familiar. I dont actually remember anything about them, so this feeling is of zero use, but still, it is a bit of a strange feelings, sort-of like deja-vue, but yet different.

 

[elitetroops]

Seraiel, don't forget that this game is not played with warrior rushing settings (=no "no city razing"). If you rush too early, you don't get to keep the city. I think they often build worker before growth. Then you'd have to wait for the worker to be out and the city to grow before you can attack. If memory serves me correctly the worker usually comes out around t20, so that's the optimal time to attack, providing they have already grown by then. I can't tell now how often they grow before worker, I've always played with the no city razing option when doing warrior rushes on these levels.

Like ikotomi, I don't think I would plan for a warrior rush here. You need the worker yourself first, then you can quite quickly get a couple of chariots out if there is someone nearby worth killing. A couple of warriors by t20 to steal their workers could still come in handy though.

 

[WastinTime]

yea, a rush is no good. You can't even get a worker steal cus they don't start with a worker at this level, right?
Thx for pointing out this game doesn't have 'no city razing' eliteroops. That would have been a horrible surprise if a player went for the rush.

 

[nocho]

@Seraiel, well sure, if the stars align properly even I might beat anyone here on a good day, but beating isn't owning. I beat Jastrow at least once to space in a BOTM, but there's no doubt he's better and more skilled at it. The best soccer team in the world (Barça! ) loses every once in a while, Magnus Carlsen doesn't win every chess game he plays, but still they're from outer space, in another league. I'm not, at least not civ-wise. To me the WTs, Duckweeds, kossins, the mysterious xOTM king Jovan Kukic are, to name a few as example. Maybe you are extra-planetary too, don't know you enough yet to really assess. Your dedication however surely is!

 

[LowtherCastle]

If I have time for it, I'd probably do space and settle on Marble.

In that order? Interesting.

 

[nocho]

In that order? Interesting.

If anyone is capable of that, it must be him!