News: WOTM 17 First Spoiler

[Thrallia]

WOTM17 First Spoiler

Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in WOTM17, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER

• You must have reached at least 500 AD in your game, OR
• You have submitted your entry

Posting Restrictions

• Please do not discuss anything post 500 AD.
• Please do not name any civs or discuss any events in any locations that are not reachable by galley.

How are you doing? Do you find this game easier or harder than a typical Immortal game? Are you still alive, or did the mean Immortal AI eat you for breakfast?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

How are you doing? Do you find this game easier or harder than a typical Immortal game? Are you still alive, or did the mean Immortal AI eat you for breakfast?

Nah, I think they're saving me for dinner.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

How are you doing? Do you find this game easier or harder than a typical Immortal game? Are you still alive, or did the mean Immortal AI eat you for breakfast?

I've really enjoyed this game so far. The game is still in progress

I definitely found it easier than a typical Immortal game. Thrallia, you removed the starting archers and workers from Egypt and Zululand?

I'll start with a short spoiler - just looking at my first 3 cities. Specific details and dates are omitted because I'm working/remembering off the top of my head.

I moved northeast to the plains hill and was delighted to find the 2nd plains cow after settling!

My warrior quickly found Rameses and the "paradise city" location just to the west of Thebes. I really really wanted this site for myself but did not fancy my chances of beating the AI to a settler, but slowly began to realise that maybe Egpyt had been handicapped in order to give my fledgling Civ a chance.

I sent the first couple of warriors towards Egypt just to have them there if the opportune moment came. I had two warriors next to his border when he sent out a settler with a warrior escort and a 2nd warrior just one tile behind. I decided to ambush the settler but both warriors lost. Doh. However, Rameses was wise enough to settle his city in the perfect place to capture all the good resources; a boost for me if I could one day capture it.

I settled towards Egypt, next to the clam and the gold and continued making warriors. Rameses started building archers in his nice new second city - that I really really wanted. I was losing grip on our starting land, with Rameses's archers building up in his cities and knowing he would soon get war chariots. My break came when he sent out an archer pair and settler from his second city and left it with one archer defender. I moved 8 warriors in and Memphis was mine!

This city capture made all the difference and I started feeling good about where this game could head.

 

[blastoidstalker]

I will post more details later but I had a similar start to Jimmy Thunder, except I waited till after the second city was founded to warrior rush it. in my case he had two warriors in it and one cycling around. I took out the cycling warrior and with 7-2 at the city location captured memphis. My third city was placed with the gold to fish and I never opened borders with Ramses, boxing him in.

 

[Thrallia]

I didn't remove anything from the AI...not sure why they are missing, if they are.

 

[JerichoHill]

The marathon speed really got to me.

My basic details was that I delayed my start, but I forget where I settled. Probably similar to Jimmy Thunder. I met Rammy real quick, but my second city was founded in such a manner that he unable to expand past the northern ice. His two big cities were monsters, and he was a research fiend. He was also my bestest friend. I did not get any cities from him though I had wanted to, by the time I could act he was much more stronger militarily than I. I built 2 warriors and then a workboat, worker, and was generally a peaceful builder.

I expanded westward and southward, meeting Shaka. I built a few cities. I ran a specialist economy, popped a GS and bulbed Math. Around zero AD i started building an army. Shaka was weak, and I needed land. I take a barbarian city in the west at 20 AD. I declared on Shaka in 130 AD, and immediately took a city on the connecting penisular. I captured another unpronouncable city in 230AD.

I had 7 cities, and I was running a specialist economy to keep up in research by teching and trading. I was able to keep up, but my research rate was horrible. However, at 500 AD, I had a solid base, a solid tech trading partner, and Shaka was on the ropes.

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

I didn't remove anything from the AI...not sure why they are missing, if they are.

I'm probably mistaken then...

I just couldn't figure out why I didn't face archers for so long and why Egypt wouldn't improve their horses.

 

[JerichoHill]

I'm probably mistaken then...

I just couldn't figure out why I didn't face archers for so long and why Egypt wouldn't improve their horses.

You would be happy to know that Egypt had alot of archers and war chariots in my game very quickly. Im glad we were buddhist buddies or else I was dead.

 

[blastoidstalker]

I wondered where the egypt worker was to. I never saw them, and I got wariors up there early to steal it. I wonder if it drowned at the start

 

[Gnejs]

There is definitely something unusual about the AIs in this game. My exploring warrior had to wait forever at Shaka's border before the first worker appeared. And Ramesses didn't have archers when I found him, unfortunately very much later than when I found Shaka.

Thrallia, did you by any chance create this game from a multiplayer start? I seem to recall a 2 vs 2 game that Erkon and I played against two deity AIs, and in that game they started without the usual extra settlers for some reason. I might be wrong though, that game was probably late at night after a new years party...

 

[Lehm]

I wondered where the egypt worker was to. I never saw them, and I got wariors up there early to steal it. I wonder if it drowned at the start

I was wondering about that too. But as all tiles around Thebes were forest I thought that maybe Ramses doesn´t want to build roads on them and researched Bronze very late.

I built my second city near the clam and the gold too, like Jimmy Thunder. I lost the battle for that paradise city location only by 5 turns or so. This was the moment when I thought there could be something wrong with "Immortal" - difficulty.

But Shaka was very friendly towards me when allowing me to take several of his workers coming out of Ulundi. He was never able to improve more than 2 tiles around Ulundi. I lost only one worker to a lion but 3 or 4 other workers managed it to reach Paris safely.

So all in all I had a nice start but began warmongering too early and once again my research stuck at 0% with still a negativ income when I had 12 or so cities around 1AD (IIRC). From that moment I tried to recover but it should take a very long time. At 500AD I still tried to recover but I had didn´t even have galleys to move on to other continents. So we´ll see where it ends...

 

[JerichoHill]

Ah, I did manage to snab that 2 gold and clam city before Rammy got it. It was a struggle to keep it mine against his concentrated culture the whole game. At 500 AD, I still had the fat cross

 

[Lehm]

Ah, I did manage to snab that 2 gold and clam city before Rammy got it. It was a struggle to keep it mine against his concentrated culture the whole game. At 500 AD, I still had the fat cross

This is very cool. When Ramses founded Hinduism in Memphis in my game I already resigned and was pleased to have at least one gold. He also built the oracle in Memphis so there was no chance for me to keep the fatcross.

 

[JerichoHill]

In my Game Rammy founded Buddhism in whatever his capital city was, but I spread it out through my empire. My two gold city had a temple, monastery, library, and I popped a random GE so I built some culture wonder there. I struggled with that city past 500AD, but Ill go into that in a few weeks.

It was great having Rammy as a research partner, and I was mostly keeping up by bulbing with GS's and trading. However, it would have been more ideal to wipe him out, but I was not powerful militarily.

Around 400AD I opened borders with Rammy and he went ALL THE WAY over to the frozen ice to my west and settled two cities on the ice. I cant believe that. Awful, Awful cities

 

[mboza]

I settled in place, and wished I had gone north as soon as I saw the second cow.

I was (far) too late for the Memphis site, so Orleans went on the gold/clam site to the south (2290 BC). Lyon was on the plains hill on the isthmus to the west (1810 BC). Rheims (1600 BC) was built on the island SE for copper, and axe production started.

Hinduism was founded in Memphis, which built the oracle and colossus. Shaka founded Buddhism, then Egypt founded Judaism. Thebes built Stonehange, and Memphis built the Oracle, and the Colossus.

My wars started with the barbarian city of Minoan, at the floodplains NW of the Zulu capital, captured in 510 BC.

I started my attack on Egypt stealing a pair of workers. Alexandria fell for a couple of axemen, reconnecting Lyon to Paris. Next was Heliopolis (cows and deer N of Paris), then marching on Memphis with 7 axes against 3 archers, and losing. I regrouped, and took it at a second attempt with about 11 axes, with the economy going down the drain. A short peace was signed in 140 BC.

Another wave of axes let me take Thebes in 110AD, but I had to move all my citizens from productive tiles to working coast, and pillage Egyptian land that I was about to conquer, to keep me from losing units to strikes. (Carelessly lost one just as it was about to attack Thebes). When I made peace, Egypt was reduced to tundra/arctic cities to my north-west.

City-razing would have made this game much easier, but instead I left Egypt in peace, while I set about rebuilding the economy.

Discovered Alphabet in 140AD, but having made almost no attempt at the Oracle, I still had lots of catching up to do before going for CoL. Some quick trading later, and I started CoL (251 turns remaining). So with two holy cities and no shortage of great prophets, I started building missionaries.

If I had CoL by 500 AD, I would tell you about it, but the rest of my tale of economic stagnation must wait for the next spoiler.

 

[greatbeyond]

I was (far) too late for the Memphis site, so Orleans went on the gold/clam site to the south (2290 BC). Lyon was on the plains hill on the isthmus to the west (1810 BC). Rheims (1600 BC) was built on the island SE for copper, and axe production started.

I assume that you researched Fishing and then Sailing. I wandered for a few turns before settling on the coast just NW of the start. I had tried several different Research paths in my test games and hoped that with a quick war and worker steals I would get off to a good start and eliminate the closest enemies before they got too many cities. That way the maintenance cost wouldn't kill my economy. Soooo, I researched Mining and at the same time built several Warriors. Some went towards Egypt and some exploring, finally finding Shaka. Neither Civ had Archers and I found both fairly soon. I also had to wait for Workers to appear. Eventually stealing some from both. In between wars, Ramses built a City in the best spot on the Continent. I assembled a force of 8 Warriors and attacked Memphis. I took it with a loss of just two Warriors and then moved on Thebes. Guess who got Archery as I approached. I lost a couple of Warriors and declared peace. About this time, Mining was done and I was completing BW, and had taken a city that Ramses built just south of Memphis. He had an Archer and Warrior here and it took about 6 Warriors to do the job. By now Ramses was pinned into his corner and I turned my attention on Shaka. I finished BW only to discover that The only source of Copper on the continent was just south of Shaka's capital. Previous to finishing BW I had my army of Workers mining every hill in sight hoping that when I got BW, copper would already be done. I spent many turns there with Warriors and then Archers declaring war, stealing Workers, pillaging his mine, to deny him Axemen. I then Researched Fishing as I sorely needed the gold. Still hoping to conquer everyone early, I researched IW ASAP and was pleasantly surprised to find several sources of Iron near my cities but not on any of the 14 already mined hills. Once I got IW I built Swordsmen and DOW on Ramses who had been fortifying Thebes with about 7 Archers. I sent 7 Swordsmen with 6 Archers and attacked, only to realize that Thebes was on a hill and all of my CR1 Swordsmen died with out a loss to Ramses. I know I should have stopped and waited for reinforcements and had to put up with Ramses for a long time. After getting peace, I moved all my Swordsmen toward Shaka, taking several cities and running my economy into the ground. I'll save the rest for the next spoiler.

 

[blastoidstalker]

The only source of Copper on the continent was just south of Shaka's capital.

true, i guess

but then i guess you did not look hard enough?

 

[greatbeyond]

true, i guess

but then i guess you did not look hard enough?

I didn't even research Sailing until much later, so I had no means to explore the island, if that's what you mean, and it wasn't visible from my continent.

Now I have also seen Copper and Iron be "discovered" during the game that wasn't visible at the start. It must be a random event. This can really skew side by side comparisons. I remember the Xotm a couple of months back that had the large desert area all the way through the center of the rectangular map with three civs on each side. The only source of iron was in the center of the map and I went almost all the way through the game without it. When I replayed the game, Iron "popped" in my BFC after about 20 turns, and let me tell you that makes quite a difference. IF your enemy doesn't have it and then it "pops" in his lands, the outlook for your game can change in a hurry.

 

[Erkon]

I'm probably mistaken then...

I just couldn't figure out why I didn't face archers for so long and why Egypt wouldn't improve their horses.

I stole a worker from Shaka in 3205 BC. At that time, he had two warriors in Capital, and no archers.

Then I stole (and disbanded) a worker from Ramesses in 2380 BC, and he had archer(s).

 

[chunkymonkey]

i started off on the plains hill and soon found the tasty site to west of thebes. unfortunately a few turns bfore my settler was to reach there, ramesses sends a settler and warrior escorted towards it. feeling lucky, i took a gamble and managed to defeat the party with my lone warrior, only to have him killed by another egyptian warrior a square behind.

unfortunately this warrior also managed to kill my second warrior out in the field and the third one protecting my wheat farm. game over 2920BC

well that's one way to finish a marathon game quickly!