Next game suggestions

[Sabrina]

Hi,

I guess I will start a new semi-MP today (2 humans plus AI) and I THINK I will play as Elizabeth this time (one of the few leaders I never tried before). Are there any tips you would like to share? I don't have a specific kind of victory in mind so far, all of them will be enabled as usual, and it will be marathon, continents at prince level (or maybe I should give king a try this time). I know Lizzy gets an extra spy, is it available with the normal first spy or is there something I should aim to to get it ASAP?

Despite my 801 playing hours, I am NOT a good player. I suck during wars and don't benefit from CS as much as I should. I like building wonders, but even though I can get a decent amount of ancient and classic ones, I start losing them after that, no matter how productive my capital is, since the tradition bonus only works for early wonders. For SP, I usually get the opener and the wonder one from tradition, then go to liberty all the way (for worker, settler and GP). Once finished, I go back to tradition and complete it.

I can win on single players, but have a hard time beating my husband (though I won twice already, once culturally as Arabia and once diplomatically as Greece). I would love to hear more experienced player's suggestions on how to improve my game. Seriously, all suggestions will be welcome and carefully considered

Thank you for reading and good luck on your current games!

 

[Walter R]

A good choice if you haven't played as Elizabeth before.

I play as England most of the time (‘cos I'm boring!). I start off playing nice and with vague aspirations of SV, (which I have occasionally completed), but usually slip into a domination strategy after a while.

Some key things:
1. You NEED iron and you need to build Ships of the Line as early as you can tech/afford it.
2. You need a map that favours water so that most cities that you will attack with said ships will be accessible from the sea; I often pick small continents.
3. Longbows are useful but I normally tech up the naval side before moving over to machinery.

However, please remember that these comments are based on my experience, and I'm still learning...

 

[Sabrina]

A good choice if you haven't played as Elizabeth before.

I play as England most of the time (‘cos I'm boring!). I start off playing nice and with vague aspirations of SV, (which I have occasionally completed), but usually slip into a domination strategy after a while.

Some key things:
1. You NEED iron and you need to build Ships of the Line as early as you can tech/afford it.
2. You need a map that favours water so that most cities that you will attack with said ships will be accessible from the sea; I often pick small continents.
3. Longbows are useful but I normally tech up the naval side before moving over to machinery.

However, please remember that these comments are based on my experience, and I'm still learning...

Thank you, I read a very interesting thread on how to play as Elizabeth on archipelago, but I don't have any experience at all in maps that are not continent, so new map, new leader and eventually new level would be a nightmare I never won a domination game before, but at least I'm the last to be killed when my opponent goes for that...

 

[bcaiko]

Yeah, the England War Academy article under the Strategies and Tips forums still holds water. (heh.)

England lends itself best to the Domination Victory. Longbowmen are great defensively and offensively (just be aware in heavy rough terrain areas, Longbowmen won't be much help...they can't shoot over rough terrain until highly promoted). Ships of the Line are indeed amazing offensive units, and you'll want to bee line the naval techs as England (conveniently, Education is also along that tech path). Any coastal capital is in serious danger when England is on the map. Just make sure you have enough money on hand to upgrade your Galleasses into Ships of the Line. (It's an expensive upgrade, though the Honor Policy tree can help with that.) You'll amost certainly want to build the Great Lighthouse to power up your naval advantage.

It can be tough to win a domination victory against a human player, but if you're not playing competatively, you can agree to deal with AI players first.

 

[Sabrina]

Yeah, the England War Academy article under the Strategies and Tips forums still holds water. (heh.)

England lends itself best to the Domination Victory. Longbowmen are great defensively and offensively (just be aware in heavy rough terrain areas, Longbowmen won't be much help...they can't shoot over rough terrain until highly promoted). Ships of the Line are indeed amazing offensive units, and you'll want to bee line the naval techs as England (conveniently, Education is also along that tech path). Any coastal capital is in serious danger when England is on the map. Just make sure you have enough money on hand to upgrade your Galleasses into Ships of the Line. (It's an expensive upgrade, though the Honor Policy tree can help with that.) You'll amost certainly want to build the Great Lighthouse to power up your naval advantage.

It can be tough to win a domination victory against a human player, but if you're not playing competatively, you can agree to deal with AI players first.

Thank you! We are setting up the game now, do you think it is still good if we play in a continents map?

 

[Ninakoru]

If you don't have any victory in mind, you shoud have clear if you will go for a wide or tall empire (at least once you have scouted the near lands). If you want to have a shot of any victory you should go full tradition first, plus is the easiest first branch to manage.

To get more CS benefit, just pledge to protect every CS, and say "You will pay for this" when AI civs bully them. If you get religion and patronage things get much much easier. Also remember to watch for quests, sometimes you get a road connection quest for nearby CS, and the early barb quests are very profitable.

You get a little weak because you focus too much on wonders, there are lots of ancient wonders. If you like wonders so much (so do I) I would go for one-two per era at most. Is important to get basic infrastructure (specially granary, then library on capital) pretty early to not lag behind too much.

Something I've learned over time: Growth is priority. Growth = science and production investment. I had the habit of focusing too much on production and culture, but growth will pay better on the long run.

On England: The strong moment is medieval, witch also is a great moment for conquest. Try to focus on getting a decent army for medieval if you plan any conquest. If not, England is OP at defending once on medieval, as you can place a ship of the line and a 3 range archer per city. Alone with that you can kill a lot of units from the safety of the city.

 

[szcott]

In combat range is everything, promote your Ships of the line with either 2 Naval Bombardments or 2 land bombardments, then on the 3rd promotion you can get plus 1 range, allowing to stand off cities and bombard them down without getting hit. As for your Archers, you need 3 of either the rough terrain or flat terrain promotions (can't mix them), as England though you will want to take logistics (double shots) due to the fact that you automatically get plus 1 range with Longbows. If you can get a safe early war going and just use your Archers to pester them with till they get promoted you'll be golden.

 

[Sabrina]

If you don't have any victory in mind, you shoud have clear if you will go for a wide or tall empire (at least once you have scouted the near lands). If you want to have a shot of any victory you should go full tradition first, plus is the easiest first branch to manage.

To get more CS benefit, just pledge to protect every CS, and say "You will pay for this" when AI civs bully them. If you get religion and patronage things get much much easier. Also remember to watch for quests, sometimes you get a road connection quest for nearby CS, and the early barb quests are very profitable.

You get a little weak because you focus too much on wonders, there are lots of ancient wonders. If you like wonders so much (so do I) I would go for one-two per era at most. Is important to get basic infrastructure (specially granary, then library on capital) pretty early to not lag behind too much.

Something I've learned over time: Growth is priority. Growth = science and production investment. I had the habit of focusing too much on production and culture, but growth will pay better on the long run.

On England: The strong moment is medieval, witch also is a great moment for conquest. Try to focus on getting a decent army for medieval if you plan any conquest. If not, England is OP at defending once on medieval, as you can place a ship of the line and a 3 range archer per city. Alone with that you can kill a lot of units from the safety of the city.

Tall, I always go tall Your advice is very good... I can't play as Ramesses because I simply start building all the wonders available and don't build an army to defend myself. This game I will try to build less wonders. I will finish the great library in 2 turns and MAY try to build the Petra on my 2nd city, let's see. That huge desert with the Mt Sinai, full of hills and gold is too tempting, but I won't bee-line for it. If I get it at my normal pace, good. If not, I can deal with the frustration of losing the Petra. So far, no CS met and my neighbors are Gus and Bismarck (don't know where Bismarck borders are yet, though). The location seems great to defend: I have coast at east, north and west of London.

 

[Sabrina]

In combat range is everything, promote your Ships of the line with either 2 Naval Bombardments or 2 land bombardments, then on the 3rd promotion you can get plus 1 range, allowing to stand off cities and bombard them down without getting hit. As for your Archers, you need 3 of either the rough terrain or flat terrain promotions (can't mix them), as England though you will want to take logistics (double shots) due to the fact that you automatically get plus 1 range with Longbows. If you can get a safe early war going and just use your Archers to pester them with till they get promoted you'll be golden.

Thank you! The +1 range is great (tried it with my japanese frigates the last game and kept on bombarding cities until I could promote them to shoo TWICE at +1 range. Unbelievable I will try to upgrade my longbowmen as much as I can too, because it seems they don't lose the original extra range when upgraded to gattling guns

 

[Herfelt]

Thank you! The +1 range is great (tried it with my japanese frigates the last game and kept on bombarding cities until I could promote them to shoo TWICE at +1 range. Unbelievable I will try to upgrade my longbowmen as much as I can too, because it seems they don't lose the original extra range when upgraded to gattling guns

It gets even more ridiculous with battleships: 4 range!

 

[bcaiko]

Yup, England is just fine on Continents, so long as you don't turn off Starting Bias. Do be careful, though, not to build entirely into a navy and have nothing to defend yourself from a land assault.

In combat range is everything, promote your Ships of the line with either 2 Naval Bombardments or 2 land bombardments, then on the 3rd promotion you can get plus 1 range, allowing to stand off cities and bombard them down without getting hit. As for your Archers, you need 3 of either the rough terrain or flat terrain promotions (can't mix them), as England though you will want to take logistics (double shots) due to the fact that you automatically get plus 1 range with Longbows. If you can get a safe early war going and just use your Archers to pester them with till they get promoted you'll be golden.

This is great advice. Since you're playing with AI, I would focus on Land Bombardment, since the AI traditionally won't have much of a navy and your Ship of the Line are superior to most anything the AI will build anyway. Then you can take pot shots at land units for free XP.

Logistics is a VERY powerful promotion, and one you certainly want your SotLs to get. Just remember that the only way you can get to Logistics is by taking 3 of the same time of promotion (Land Bombardment 1, 2 & 3, for instance). You can't mix and match. I agree with szcott, though, that you should take the extra range promotion when it's offered.

 

[pilot00]

Dunno about England specifically, never had them drawn in my random selection. But I know this: Whatever your plans revolve right now tradition has an advantage over liberty. A capital with full growth can outscience and out produce three regular cities.

I too like wonders too much but in a hotseat/multiplayer you cant take them all. Best beeline or plan ahead for which ones to get. If you go tradition you need the Temple of Artemis. That thing with tradition and one of the food beliefs from religion (worse still all of them) is outright broken. You can produce more science with your capital without any farms as your opponent will produce with the Great Library and NC (actually more because you will build the NC yourself eventually). I suggest you go Pottery and then Archery, build the ToA as fast as possible and in the interim either buy or steal a worker to improve lux and mines (for faster building). Open legalism first (don't cry over the monument it will give you a better building later) and immediately landed elite. Then choose oligarchy. The idea behind that is to have a super fed up capital so by the end of the BCs to have at least a 14 size city. That will deal with any science and production gaps and will surpass all but the most well placed civs. If you feel like adding the final nail to the coffin you can make a run for the hanging gardens. That will seal the deal. I usually buy my first settler around this time and go for education/crossbows/navy depending on map.

If you play a naval map its all the more important to have high food yields.

 

[Sabrina]

Dunno about England specifically, never had them drawn in my random selection. But I know this: Whatever your plans revolve right now tradition has an advantage over liberty. A capital with full growth can outscience and out produce three regular cities.

I too like wonders too much but in a hotseat/multiplayer you cant take them all. Best beeline or plan ahead for which ones to get. If you go tradition you need the Temple of Artemis. That thing with tradition and one of the food beliefs from religion (worse still all of them) is outright broken. You can produce more science with your capital without any farms as your opponent will produce with the Great Library and NC (actually more because you will build the NC yourself eventually). I suggest you go Pottery and then Archery, build the ToA as fast as possible and in the interim either buy or steal a worker to improve lux and mines (for faster building). Open legalism first (don't cry over the monument it will give you a better building later) and immediately landed elite. Then choose oligarchy. The idea behind that is to have a super fed up capital so by the end of the BCs to have at least a 14 size city. That will deal with any science and production gaps and will surpass all but the most well placed civs. If you feel like adding the final nail to the coffin you can make a run for the hanging gardens. That will seal the deal. I usually buy my first settler around this time and go for education/crossbows/navy depending on map.

If you play a naval map its all the more important to have high food yields.

Thank you, pilot! My growth yield was pretty good in the beginning (survivors in ruins), I got a very early worker to work the 3 wheat tiles around my capital and build 2 gold mines. So I had to decide between the ToA and the GL. At that point, I think the great library was a better deal (still think it is, since I got an expensive tech for free and didn't lose too many infra-structure turns building a wonder... It just costed me a few more turns I would need to build a library) but I managed to build the HG too, at least that. Despite of all my hopes of not having a nearby desert, I do. So I did the obvious: settled my second city on the middle of the desert, got desert folklore and the mt Sinai and bee lined for currency for Petra and mints (both cities have gold). Now I'm going for iron working because this will tell me where to settle next (hope this time I have iron). Then I will finally concentrate on my navigation techs

 

[pilot00]

Thank you, pilot! My growth yield was pretty good in the beginning (survivors in ruins), I got a very early worker to work the 3 wheat tiles around my capital and build 2 gold mines. So I had to decide between the ToA and the GL. At that point, I think the great library was a better deal (still think it is, since I got an expensive tech for free and didn't lose too many infra-structure turns building a wonder... It just costed me a few more turns I would need to build a library) but I managed to build the HG too, at least that. Despite of all my hopes of not having a nearby desert, I do. So I did the obvious: settled my second city on the middle of the desert, got desert folklore and the mt Sinai and bee lined for currency for Petra and mints (both cities have gold). Now I'm going for iron working because this will tell me where to settle next (hope this time I have iron). Then I will finally concentrate on my navigation techs

Sounds like a plan. I too chose GL most of the time since I play science focus. The ToA vs GL is a strugle between long term effects vs short term gain. The first allows you to grow a monstrus pop in short time, while the other allows you to kick some science afterburners and effectively choose you wonders
Seems you settled for middle ground which is again a viable strategy

Good luck on your game. So its England then?

 

[Walter R]

Just to echo what has already been said: promote your SOTL with LAND UNIT BOMBARDMENT promotions for 1st two, then RANGE, then 3rd LAND UNIT BOMBARDMENT, then LOGISTICS. It works.
In my current game Hiawatha's capital was down a horrible bottleneck creek with forests and hills either side - but as I had three ships with logistics I moved them in turn into the only firing position, fired two salvos and moved away. It took me three turns to conquer an 80 strength city this way.
Good hunting!

 

[Sabrina]

Just to echo what has already been said: promote your SOTL with LAND UNIT BOMBARDMENT promotions for 1st two, then RANGE, then 3rd LAND UNIT BOMBARDMENT, then LOGISTICS. It works.
In my current game Hiawatha's capital was down a horrible bottleneck creek with forests and hills either side - but as I had three ships with logistics I moved them in turn into the only firing position, fired two salvos and moved away. It took me three turns to conquer an 80 strength city this way.
Good hunting!

I'll definitely do that! By the way, my human opponent is playing as Hiawatha Probably declare war on Gus or Bismarck when I have the ships just to attack a coastal city until I get the promotions. I did it last game as Japan, by building my frigates in the city with the military buildings and doing some "target practice" and they got the +1 range and firing twice promo pretty fast (plus, they had morale too). But I don't know if I will be able to have the promotions buildings before building a good fleet, but I will do my best. I will build barracks in London as soon as I finish bronze working. Then I just hope I have iron this time!

 

[Walter R]

Yes, being sad I like to name my ships so I need to build a barracks anyway hence they always start at 15 xp. I try and get the Commerce policy that gives a GA if I can manage without something else - couldn't do that in current game so the first few engagements were pretty bloody. Funny thing - in the early game you really need GAs and can't get them, whereas now I'm tripping over them - before I built the carrier I had one sat in London because there was no ship free for him to sit with.
One other thing: once I have SOTL I fire at something/anything every turn if possible. If I can't go in and capture a city because I'm way too low on happiness I fire at workers and commit other war crimes until I can. The AI often bizarrely floats some targets like cannon nearby, so it would be rude not to.
Speaking of the mad AI, after the early stages of the game my workers are on auto - and I usually know when I'm going to get a DOW because it's preceeded by multiple Bong! as several workers embark right into the path of the oncoming units; that being the case I'm expecting a DOW from my good friend GK in my current game, as the scenario just described is occurring!

 

[Sabrina]

Yes, being sad I like to name my ships so I need to build a barracks anyway hence they always start at 15 xp. I try and get the Commerce policy that gives a GA if I can manage without something else - couldn't do that in current game so the first few engagements were pretty bloody. Funny thing - in the early game you really need GAs and can't get them, whereas now I'm tripping over them - before I built the carrier I had one sat in London because there was no ship free for him to sit with.
One other thing: once I have SOTL I fire at something/anything every turn if possible. If I can't go in and capture a city because I'm way too low on happiness I fire at workers and commit other war crimes until I can. The AI often bizarrely floats some targets like cannon nearby, so it would be rude not to.
Speaking of the mad AI, after the early stages of the game my workers are on auto - and I usually know when I'm going to get a DOW because it's preceeded by multiple Bong! as several workers embark right into the path of the oncoming units; that being the case I'm expecting a DOW from my good friend GK in my current game, as the scenario just described is occurring!

I was literally tripping over Great People last time I played as Austria, I understand your pain I also agree it is rude not to attack embarked units (don't know why, the AI is always doing that!). But I can't put my workers on auto... I am the queen of micromanagement But that's a good tip, good luck on your war.