Ninja Attack Questions

utahjazz7

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I'm putting together the model for the ninja request, which won the Unit Request Tournament. I've been brainstorming about the attack sequence, and I ran into a problem: I don't know how a ninja uses his sword.

Do ninjas use a one-handed or two-handed grip? I would lean toward guessing two-handed, but I thought I'd better ask.

Also, what kind of attack motion is normal? Slashing, stabbing, something else I've never even heard of?

If I could get a little feedback, I'd appreciate it. Thanks. :)
 
Well imho a Ninja would either use a on handed Grip or a "1 1/2" handed, like a Katana was usually used. I would decide upon the weapon you gonna giv him. Possibilities are:

1. The Ninjato: Straight Blade Between Katana und Wakazashi in length -> one handed
This is more the hollywoodversion, less historical, give him two Ninjatos and you get the perfect hollywood-badass-Ninja

2. Katana and Wakazashi: Same as the Samurai used, more historical. Possibilities are:
- Katana 1 1/2 handed, that means you use two hands, but they are not always both on the grip. This Style is faster than a pure two-handed Style which wouldn't suit a Ninja.
- Wakazashi one handed, possible another weapon in the other hand (shuriken, blinding powder, another mele weapon).

I would prefer either the Ninjato ore the Wakazashi because I think it would underline the Assassin/Spy character.
 
Yes, Ninja used all arrays of equipment, not only standard swords. A Ninjato is perfect for him :D

They would use them in all manner of ways, one handed, two handed, hand and a half. Their style was to be unorthodox and surprising, so whatever you have him do, it will have no doubt been done before by Ninja :D
 
Ninjas used Ninjatos- straight bladed swords with tanto style tips. The swords are short, light weight and very strong. The Ninjas used them to aid in climbing for example and these swords were more easily carried on the back, allowing for more agility.

Two Ninjatos and Shurikens would make for some Cool Attacks. The Swords should be carried on his back and he should appear as very agile and stealthy in movement.

If you want to add a "Special Effect", a Ninja Gunpowder Smoke Bomb would be a nice touch and only needs the Smoke Shades in the Palette :)
Attack 1- Ninja Smoke, Attack 2- Shurikens, Attack 3- Ninjatos.

...Due to Shurikens being a bit small to see effectively at CIV Scale I recommend Attack 1- Ninja Smoke Bomb and Attack 2- Two Ninjatos.
 
Or he could also wield Kunai, which are short, single-bladed knives with a large loop in the back (the entire Kunai is made out of metal) of the handle.... The kunai could be used to stab, slash and be thrown, which is why many ninja used them (they were versatile weapons).
 
http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/ninja-swords.html
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=74014
http://home.no.net/sanshin/dokumenter/The Historical Ninja.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninjatō (ninja-to is under fictional swords)

I have never seen a real "ninja-to", a straight blade with a large square handle is not very historical. And I have been to many weapon museums, and many sword shops in Japan, and here, you can only have authentic historical swords, or modern swords made in traditional ways. Ninja-tos are not real

I think for a ninja, it should be about surprise, a sword hidden in an umbrella, or a throwing knifes, a dart in a flute pipe. Throwing a Manriki-gusari
But if for a sword, it should look like a normal katana, but with a shorter blade. But it should not be straight.

Maybe the default he should be hiding under an umbrella, and on the attack throw down the umbrella, to pull out a sword. Since in this way, he will look like he is trying to hide or not be noticed.

His death should be like in Tenchu haha a cloud of smoke, and then only a log with a paper talisman.
 
Found this for you.
The ninja sword (ninja-to) was different than that of the samurai. The long sword that the samurai carried was made of high-carbon steel, and took months to have made. They were hand made specially for each samurai, taking great care to make a very high quality sword. It was so sharp that it could easily cut a man in two, even through their armor. The length of the samurai swords averaged around 26 1/2 to 37 inches.

The ninja sword was considerably shorter, only 24 inches, and the quality of the swords was much poorer. The reason for the poorer quality was the way they used the sword as opposed to the way the samurai used theirs. Samurai would swing their sword, severing limbs and slashing at the opponent. Ninja, on the other hand, used the sword more in a stabbing motion. To use the blade of the ninja sword effectively you would have to use a sawing motion when the blade came in contact with the opponents flesh.
 
Definitely give him a ninjato as the main weapon, at least in the sense, a slightly shorter katana which the ninja used (that also means it SHOULD have a slight curve in the blade)...you could also have him use a chain-like weapon (there are various chain weapons they used, so it's your call) and throw the weapon at the enemy for a secondary attack. And for me personally, I would prefer to see the smoke "attack" used as an escape method, i.e. using it as the "death" animation. Would be very fitting in my opinion and the unit disappears as well.
 
His death should be like in Tenchu haha a cloud of smoke, and then only a log with a paper talisman.

Ah, yes, the old "Art of Substitution"... I, also, second this motion! :D
 
Not sure if you use Poser but I have Smoke that you could use if you do....Just send me a PM or E-mail if interested.

"Artistic License" allows you to take what Opinions and thoughts you gain here and do as you prefer.
I understand the Chore concerning the various effects and animations involved so Please yourself and that enthusiasm will carry over to all that enjoy your Final Unit Creation :)
 
Found this for you.
The ninja sword (ninja-to) was different than that of the samurai. The long sword that the samurai carried was made of high-carbon steel, and took months to have made. They were hand made specially for each samurai, taking great care to make a very high quality sword. It was so sharp that it could easily cut a man in two, even through their armor. The length of the samurai swords averaged around 26 1/2 to 37 inches.

The ninja sword was considerably shorter, only 24 inches, and the quality of the swords was much poorer. The reason for the poorer quality was the way they used the sword as opposed to the way the samurai used theirs. Samurai would swing their sword, severing limbs and slashing at the opponent. Ninja, on the other hand, used the sword more in a stabbing motion. To use the blade of the ninja sword effectively you would have to use a sawing motion when the blade came in contact with the opponents flesh.

please find me a historical "Ninja-to" photo. Or one made before 1900s.

or please read the links from my other post.

"The typical ninjatō carried by a ninja would most likely have been a wakizashi or shortsword fitted with a katana-length handle and placed in a katana-length saya (scabbard). This may have been used to deceive one's opponents into miscalculating how quickly it could be drawn, allowing one to use a battoujutsu strike faster than expected."

"Modern ninjato are often straight with a square tsuba (hand guard), but this is not historically accurate. According to the same book by Masaaki Hatsumi, the ninja ken was straight, but only in contrast to the average sword of the period which were much more curved."
If this "period" is the Sengoku-jidai, then it may be the tachi, which is the typical long sword of a samurai. Tachi have a very deep curve because they are for horsemen.


Also, the sword's saya should be on his back, not at his hip, this is so a ninja could get into tight places without the saya hitting the wall and making a noise.

If you give him a shorter sword he should hold it tip down, if it is larger than a wakizashi it should be tip up
 
please find me a historical "Ninja-to" photo. Or one made before 1900s.
Wow single me out for attack.
Ninja Swords differ from Samurai swords in that they were not passed from generation to generation. Most Ninja swords (ninja-to) were cheap, disposable multi purpose tools.
I think that would explain why you will have a hard time finding a pre-1900 Ninja-to.

Where a samurai would never consider even drawing his sword unless it was to further his spiritual ideals, a ninja might use his sword as a disposable step ladder (standing on the guard), as a crowbar, or whatever was necessary to accomplish his mission. As such, there are no traditional, ninja - to ninja swords.
Modern blades are far superior to the poorly constructed blades in the days of the ninja warrior.The samurai swords (katanas) are much longer and of different quality. Traditional katanas were very long and usually exquisitely made. The samurai held a high degree of respect for the spirit of the sword. The ninja used their swords for whatever was necessary at the moment.

The attack:
The grip for ninja-to can be either 1 or 2 handed. The most common was the two handed stance, but there are many 1 handed strikes for distance or speed. Steven Hayes says that the sledgehammer grip is completely incorrect. Instead a grip where a small gap is between each hands, and the upper (left) hand is not pressed tightly against the tsuba (hand guard) is preferred. The sword is gripped firmly with the lower 3 fingers, so the upper 2 fingers of each hand can control the subtle angles of moment.The essence of the ninja sword fighting technique is to cut down the enemy quickly, not to engage in a prolonged sword battle. A swordsman does not simply chop like a crude axe. The blade is drawn across the attacker so that the entire blade ideally is touched to the target. I think that explains things more precisely than my previous post which stated a sawing motion.

Also I agree with the death suggestion it would be very unique.
 
but why don't we see the "ninja-to" in Koga or Iga ninja houses today? Swords were still made of iron, and since you say there were so cheap that the ninjas didn't care about them, then there should be 100s found around Japan, just left by ninjas. However, we do have many other iron weapons from ninjas in museums, and I am sure those were more cheaply made than a sword.

I don't know any real ninjutsu school in Japan that uses the hollywood style ninja-to

agian please read:"The typical ninjatō carried by a ninja would most likely have been a wakizashi or shortsword fitted with a katana-length handle and placed in a katana-length saya (scabbard). This may have been used to deceive one's opponents into miscalculating how quickly it could be drawn, allowing one to use a battoujutsu strike faster than expected."

"Modern ninjato are often straight with a square tsuba (hand guard), but this is not historically accurate. According to the same book by Masaaki Hatsumi, the ninja ken was straight, but only in contrast to the average sword of the period which were much more curved."
If this "period"

"The Bujinkan dojo currently contains one school, the Togakure ryu, which teaches the use of the ninja ken. Typically, this is a wakizashi-length sword (or slightly longer) that has been outfitted with katana sized koshirae (fittings). The idea behind a shorter sword is that it is much easier to fight in close quarters with a shorter sword, as would be necessary for a ninja acting as an intelligence-gatherer."


correct:

Wakisashi or Ko-katana, sometimes called "ninja-to" or "shinobi-gatana"
incorrect:



ninja-tos, and shinobi-gatanas did exist, but they do not look like what people call "ninja-tos" today.

And the idea that ninjas had straight swords, because they were so cheap, is also wrong because, the ashigaru, the poorest samurai, who were just farmers made into soldiers did not have a straight sword. But if a straight sword is so cheap they should have it right? But ashigaru had wakizashis, uchigatanas, and sometimes katanas. An uchigatana was straighter than the katanas and tachi at the time, but it still looks like a smaller edo-style katana. Ninjas' "ninja-to" is more like an uchigatana.

Ninjas are supposed to be very secretive, so if they were in disguise but they had a straight sword with a large square tsuba, everyone would know he is a ninja. This is another reason why it would be better for a ninja to just have a sword that looks like everyone else's. Even if it is not (shorter blade than usual, in a normal size scabbard). So they can carry around their sword without people knowing he is a ninja.
 
Is there really going to be a great deal of difference between the "correct" one and the "incorrect" one at civ scale?

I say give him an Ethiopian sword!

Oh no.. the difference is knowing that it is the "correct" sword!
 
Is there really going to be a great deal of difference between the "correct" one and the "incorrect" one at civ scale?

I say give him an Ethiopian sword!

not really, but my hobby is history and weaponry especially from Japan
 
II say give him an Ethiopian sword!
"... what is today known as an 'Ethiopian Sword' was, in fact, a simple, common butcher's tool cused for severing tendons and separating bones at the joint per Dhabīḥah Halal." - ZebraWiki :p

not really, but my hobby is history and weaponry especially from Japan
Shiro knows more about Japanese weapons than I do about India. He's presented evidence, not assertion. Whether or not it would show at civ-scale, at least concede that his descriptions are accurate, everybody.
 
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