No idea what to do next

[Timo33]

Hey guys =)

I started an Emperor game and i now need some advice o what to do next. And of course, if you can give me advices, critisms etc, about what i did wrong or well, it would be even better


I'll post the save below; let's summarize what happened till that point (500AD):

I started boxed in between Gilgamesh and Gengis, who settled very fast towards me. Other leaders: Monty, Toku, Shaka, and Hatchepsout. (poor Hatchy, she's hated by everyone xD)

I got 6 cities, 2 of them settled only to get more land and were full of jungles.
I teched to Aestetics so as to trade for Alpha and eventually get IW to clean up jungles. Unfortunately, i should have known that Alpha wouldn't be discovered until very late, with those bad techers :/ i got IW/Alpha at around 400BC.

So then, with only 6 cities and next to Gengis (who was in WHEOOHRN against Hatchy or me), i decided to DoW Gengis with a mix of Elephants and Catapults (i had Jumbos in my BFC). I attacked fairly late (100AD i think).
Gengis took me one city i wasn't paying attention of, i took it back; He then bribed Toku on me, I bribed Shaka on Gengis.
Now, 500AD: I took all Gengis' cities (6 in total), I'm still in war with Toku, but my teching is poor :/

So i'd need advices now.

Regarding techs, should i continue teching Music? It has already been discovered by Monty so i wont get the GA, but i'm 2 turns away from it and it would be a nice trade tech.
If not Music, what should i research? CS for Buro?

Also, should i keep waring or should i just play peacefully now and attack later?
I still have a nice army size, but my neighbours arent the ideal targets (Gilgamesh has longbows / Shaka is pleased with me and i was planning to bribe him on Toku with possibly Music).

Here's the save. All critics, ideas, help, advices, everything's welcome and appreciated =)

 

[CaF]

Hey guys =)

I started an Emperor game and i now need some advice o what to do next. And of course, if you can give me advices, critisms etc, about what i did wrong or well, it would be even better


I'll post the save below; let's summarize what happened till that point (500AD):

I started boxed in between Gilgamesh and Gengis, who settled very fast towards me. Other leaders: Monty, Toku, Shaka, and Hatchepsout. (poor Hatchy, she's hated by everyone xD)

I got 6 cities, 2 of them settled only to get more land and were full of jungles.
I teched to Aestetics so as to trade for Alpha and eventually get IW to clean up jungles. Unfortunately, i should have known that Alpha wouldn't be discovered until very late, with those bad techers :/ i got IW/Alpha at around 400BC.

So then, with only 6 cities and next to Gengis (who was in WHEOOHRN against Hatchy or me), i decided to DoW Gengis with a mix of Elephants and Catapults (i had Jumbos in my BFC). I attacked fairly late (100AD i think).
Gengis took me one city i wasn't paying attention of, i took it back; He then bribed Toku on me, I bribed Shaka on Gengis.
Now, 500AD: I took all Gengis' cities (6 in total), I'm still in war with Toku, but my teching is poor :/

So i'd need advices now.

Regarding techs, should i continue teching Music? It has already been discovered by Monty so i wont get the GA, but i'm 2 turns away from it and it would be a nice trade tech.
If not Music, what should i research? CS for Buro?

Also, should i keep waring or should i just play peacefully now and attack later?
I still have a nice army size, but my neighbours arent the ideal targets (Gilgamesh has longbows / Shaka is pleased with me and i was planning to bribe him on Toku with possibly Music).

Here's the save. All critics, ideas, help, advices, everything's welcome and appreciated =)

You should have bribed Shaka on Toku and not on Genghis. That way neither of them could have interfered in your war against Genghis (vassal nonsense) and they will be waring even after Genghis is dead.

As for your save: I would just go on conquering the whole world from here. Starting by whipping around 15 catapults.

Tech: finish music -> trade feud with giggles -> CS
use feud and music to bribe shaka on toku, then either kill toku, backstab shaka or seek peace and take out giggles.

 

[z0wb13]

build a bunch of workers and build up. try warring again with cannons or cuirassiers.

 

[Htadus]

Continue music only if it will provide you with a tech to trade. Else use those two turns toward another useful tech. CS is a great tech and I hope you have Currency already. It seem that you do not have currency, and that may be more useful since you can always build wealth.

You are in a war and have units. Go after Toku and take some cities. City capture gold will keep you afloat. But with 12 cities already, you have any choice of VC available to you. Good luck.

 

[Timo33]

@ Caf
Yeah, you're right i should have bribed Shaka against Toku. The thing is, i still didnt know where Toku was when he's been bribed on me, i didnt know that Shaka was actually between Toku and me. Also, i didnt even think about bribing Shaka on Toku because i "needed" help against Gengis. I said Gengis took me one city, it was the northern one and my army was at the south at this moment. When i realized Gengis' stack was north (however i had scouted his land some turns before declaring), i bribed Shaka on him with the hope that Gengis would turn his stack on Shaka instead of me. It didnt work though xD but i think Gengis still sent some units to Shaka, i might have avoided some more trouble to the north of my empire anyway.

About your next advices, i'm ok with all you said about techs.
As for the problem of attacking or not, I think everyone is gonna get longbows pretty soon: already 2 guys got them and everyone likes everyone (especially since everyone except Hatty is on the same religion). I'm very scared about facing longbows, especially coming from Protective guys like Gilgamesh and Toku.
In that case i'd naturally want to backstab Shaka. But his army is as huge as mine, and there's still the problem of longbows coming soon.
I think that's the reason you adviced me to whip 15 catapults, i need more siege; but in that case, wouldn't it be less risky to tech to engineering (after CS) and attack-destroy-vassalize everyone with trebs?

Out of topic: I discovered your Youtube videos 2 or 3 weeks ago and i pretty much love them =) you're a great player and Youtuber dude. Yo deserve way more views on your videos but keep posting them, i'm your fan! =)


@ z0mb13
I'm ok with the idea of attaking later with cannons/cuirs (im still not decided yet, as Caf adviced me the contrary; im hoping i could have more answers to get a precise idea but i doubt i'll get more anyway).
However, why should i build tons of workers? I mean, maybe you said that as a general advice and not on this precise situation; I thought i had enough workers now (i have 13 for 12 cities, with almost all Gengis' land already improved). How many more do you think i would need if i dont have enough right now?


@ Htadus
Did you open the save? xD
I do have Currency, and i could use Music to get Feudalism from Gilgamesh. That was Caf's advice, i'll most likely follow it.
I like the idea of going after another target immediatly, even if without your advices i'd have naturally done what z0mb13 adviced me. However, if i keep attacking, are you sure Toku would be a good target?
I mean, ok we're already a war, and he's one of the weakest in terms of power. But he's pretty far away, compared to Shaka or Gilgamesh. Also, if he gets Feudalism, from someone or just by teching it himself, i'll get screwed by his protective Longbows. I'd rather wait for Engineering in that case.
Or do you think catapults/elephants would be enough? I gotta admit that i maybe are too much about protective longbows, but i've had many bad experiences against them xD

Thanks for your answers guys =)

 

[CaF]

@Timo:

In case you are worried about longbows, there is no shame in just sitting back until trebs. I mainly looked at the power ratings and your remaining army, noticed your relative strength (1.2 of everyone?!) and the missing siege units (i guess they all died). All you really need is a couple of fresh siege units and you can roll on.

Longbows are annoying, but I don't see a reason why you shouldn't move on. You have the best army out there, you are not going broke and your neighbourhood will be harassing you at some point anyways. Unless they all jump on Hatty.

You can go for Toku, but you should do that with the intention of vassaling him quickly. You probably have to wait some 7-8 turns for your reinforcements. In the meanwhile you can kill stacks that he might send and see what kind of a peace deal he would like to have. I bet he will already be willing to give stuff after losing a couple of units.

 

[Htadus]

@ Htadus
Did you open the save? xD I am home now and just looked at it
I do have Currency, and i could use Music to get Feudalism from Gilgamesh. That was Caf's advice, i'll most likely follow it.It is a good advice.
I like the idea of going after another target immediatly, even if without your advices i'd have naturally done what z0mb13 adviced me. However, if i keep attacking, are you sure Toku would be a good target? I mean, ok we're already a war, and he's one of the weakest in terms of power. But he's pretty far away, compared to Shaka or Gilgamesh. Also, if he gets Feudalism, from someone or just by teching it himself, i'll get screwed by his protective Longbows. I'd rather wait for Engineering in that case.
Or do you think catapults/elephants would be enough? I gotta admit that i maybe are too much about protective longbows, but i've had many bad experiences against them xDFirst he is not that far and you can go after his cities untill the LB show up right? Nothing changes. You can send stacks with shakas troops too and wait for a chance. If you are having bad RNG once/if the LB's show up, then do what you must. But your other real target is not going to make your life easy either.

Thanks for your answers guys =)

BTW your capital need to grow. And next turn after MoM I would trade marble for some happy.

 

[Timo33]

@Caf

Yeah, i miss siege units xD
I lost some against Gengis, of course. But the main reason why i lack them so much is because i failed during the war. I built too many elephants and not enough catapults.
My plan, before declaring war, was to tech Construction, build some catapults while waiting for HBR and then switch to Elephants. So i got 10 catapults before being able to make elephants, and at this point i totally stopped producing catapults. Forgot to make new ones after i lost some of them. :/

I think i'll follow your advice and attack Toku. I might gift his cities bak after having vassaled him, unless they're good cities. Then i'll turn against Shaka and then the rest of the world.
Thanks for the advices


@Htadus

Yeah, my capital has a pretty low pop :/ i whipped maybe too much during the war, as my land is hammer poor. The problem is that i dont really know what to do with this capital, there's some cottages, somemines, resources, but other than that there's some useless tiles i dont know what to do with. Cottages seem obvious since im Financial, but i'm starting to consider moving my Palace, probably to one of Gengis' ex cities. I might watch the save again and decide from here.

About marble, i can even trade that away right now. I started the MoM mainly for the failgold. The MoM is always nice of course, so i dont mind finishing it, but the only GA i could get would be from the Taj, and it's going to be late if i go for the Engineering route so as to conquer more civs after Toku and Shaka.
So I think the Mom will be only for failgold and as a result, i can trade marble immediatly. I didt realize i needed happy resources that bad. Thanks =)

 

[z0wb13]

@ z0mb13
I'm ok with the idea of attaking later with cannons/cuirs (im still not decided yet, as Caf adviced me the contrary; im hoping i could have more answers to get a precise idea but i doubt i'll get more anyway).
However, why should i build tons of workers? I mean, maybe you said that as a general advice and not on this precise situation; I thought i had enough workers now (i have 13 for 12 cities, with almost all Gengis' land already improved). How many more do you think i would need if i dont have enough right now?

...Thanks for your answers guys =)

actually, that does sound like enough workers. but i'm of the same mind that warring against longbows with classical units doesn't seem like a winning strategy. with as much land as you have, and the diplo bloc seemingly favoring the religion you are already in, i think it would be easier to turtle and tech.

cannons are my particular favorite unit. they are strong in general against anything during it's own time (except cavalry on the defense), and they take down city defenses much faster than trebs and especially catapults.

besides cannons, with that many cities and enough farms, you can also take advantage of nationalism and drafting. the point of drafts isn't that you are getting especially good units, just that you are getting enough for garrison and clean up after cannon attacks.

i'm always skeptical of being able to effectively plan enemy vassalizing. the mechanics are not well understood. still, i would generally approve of Htadus's tech path.

 

[Timo33]

@ z0mb13
I'm not use to attacking with cannons, i know they're powerful but i never really used them. I might give it a try in this game; i think i'll play as Caf and Htadus adviced me, and then i'll replay the game using cannons using my 500AD save. I doubt i'll have the time needed though, i'll be busy for 2 weeks or more.


Well, i just continued the game and attacked Toku with my army + whipped catapults.
The exact same turn i reached Toku's land, Shaka & Monty Dowed Hatty, and Gilgamesh backstabed me and taked me one city. Can't bribe Shaka against Gilgamesh since he declared on Hatty.
I dont know where i failed on diplo, Gilgamesh wasn't even on WHEOOHRN and all of a sudden this backstab...Didnt know he could attack at cautious either, i though he declared only at annoyed.
Anyway... I'll replay that later, i'm done for now xD

EDIT: At first i thought Toku bribed Gilgamesh on me using Philosophy and/or Compass, but that's not even the case. No bribe and no WHEOOHRN mode the turn before it.
Im getting confused on why he attacked me :/ I even revolted to Hereditary Rule, his favourite civic, some turns before. No idea where i messed up on diplo

 

[Htadus]

How may unit did you have in your shared border city? AI usually see opportunity and will attack. Replay the save and leave several phants and any spear defensive unit in that city to see what happens.

Giggles has 30% chance of DoW while being cautious so he is a backstabber.

 

[Timo33]

Well, that's the point then xD
I had only warriors in my border cities :/ I know that's not enough and i should have cared more about it, but i really didnt think Gilgamesh could attack at cautious. Maybe that's because i had never had any problems with him before.

Thanks for making it clear =)