no love for Egypt?

[jokazc]

I noticed Egypt are considered lower levels civ.I like to play with them and they are my favourite one with Roma.And I wondered why? I play with Egypt very well.In start I dont rush to wonders and go for production.
Ok lets go back to my question.Why are they considered not very good? And what other production based civ would be intresting to play with in higher levels

 

[joshua43214]

I noticed Egypt are considered lower levels civ.I like to play with them and they are my favourite one with Roma.And I wondered why? I play with Egypt very well.In start I dont rush to wonders and go for production.
Ok lets go back to my question.Why are they considered not very good? And what other production based civ would be intresting to play with in higher levels

Its pretty simple really,

Play Egypt
Wonder Whore
Rome covets my land
I built wonders that England wants
Even Gandhi covets my land

Ever been DoW'd by all 7 civs at the same time?
This can happen easily with Egypt
He even gets a special building that gives extra rewards to any civ that captures it.

I mean whats not to love

 

[black213]

Its pretty simple really,

Play Egypt
Wonder Whore
Rome covets my land
I built wonders that England wants
Even Gandhi covets my land

Ever been DoW'd by all 7 civs at the same time?
This can happen easily with Egypt
He even gets a special building that gives extra rewards to any civ that captures it.

I mean whats not to love

Though AI coveting lands system is based on proximity only, not the quality of cities.

 

[Matthew.]

20% wonder production bonus doesn't scale well. e.g., if the AI is going to finish a wonder before you even get the tech researched, it doesn't matter how much of a bonus you get, you lose out on the wonder.

Chariots are not favored among many players. Usually because if you mass a bunch of them and upgrade later on, you are stuck with a ton of knights and no range.

No complaints about burial tombs. They are great.

In short, the Civ just doesn't scale well with difficulty. I don't think I've ever seen them rated as bottom-tier, but they just don't compare to some of the stronger Civs.

 

[drjones]

I noticed that Ramses was always on top of the AI in my Marathon/emperor games with the latest expansion so I tried playing as them. I kicked some major ass and it was the first winning game I had with the expansion (not reaching a win condition which is not hard, but being on top of the leader-board and dominating in several areas). Also, on Emperor you basically have no chance to get more than handful of wonders, you have to have an engineer ready to sacrifice and spike into an unpopular tech area and even then I have lost them despite just needing one turn. With Ramses I ended up with several good early wonders, which made the rest of the game a lot easier.

I was heavy into culture to play with the new policies so that might have helped.

For me, the thing is that the economy can get hard in this game at high difficulty but the combat and AI never really do. Japan is the only warfare oriented civ that gets a real hardcore benefit but even against them a pansy human civ can win most every war just by basic tactics. I love Civ V but the more complicated combat just bamboozles the AI so a civ with an economic benefit (which wonders can be with some luck) will do better than one with a military benefit in my experience.

 

[drjones]

Its pretty simple really,

I mean whats not to love

I dunno, to me "WAR DECLARED" is Latin for "Please, take some of my cities!".

 

[Vathris]

Don't forget that their Chariot Archers don't need horses. Firaxis correctly modeled the real-life trait that made Egypt such a dominant and feared power in the Ancient world, namely the ability to pull horses out of their ass.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

I thought covet lands was when the AI capital demands a resource I have in my territory? And what's all this about having no military? How does getting a 20% discount on wonders make it harder to have a military to defend the ones you choose to build?

Anyway, Egypt is flexible. You can go tall and have your pick of the wonders, or go wide and take advantage of the burial tomb happy boost. The war chariot can be ignored, much like the unit it replaces.

 

[duende29]

- 20% WW doesn't really scale that well with difficulty. You'll still lose those early WW, get the key WW in the middle game if you focused and if you played your science game well, you'll get any late game WW you want.

- Chariots promotions are lost once they turn melee and they're not like Camel Archers that let you dominate everything.

 

[Alzadar]

Don't forget that their Chariot Archers don't need horses. Firaxis correctly modeled the real-life trait that made Egypt such a dominant and feared power in the Ancient world, namely the ability to pull horses out of their ass.

Oh man this made me laugh out loud, well played.

Have to agree with others though, Egypt UA just never really makes a difference on higher difficulties, most Ancient/Classsical wonders can't be reached without huge sacrifices regardless (except Pyramids and Oracle now, BNW AIs don't like those two as much anymore), and Renaissance+ wonders can mostly be reached without if you really want them.

 

[dexters]

You also cannot have all Civs be awesome because people will complain about previously awesome Civs being less awesome.

I've come to accept the tiered nature of Civs, though it doesn't mean we can't suggest things to improve Civs, especially the weakest ones from vanilla to update them.

 

[I_qua_I]

Don't forget that their Chariot Archers don't need horses. Firaxis correctly modeled the real-life trait that made Egypt such a dominant and feared power in the Ancient world, namely the ability to pull horses out of their ass.

 

[otaman1]

Why are they considered not very good?

Because they are in a Revolutionary Wave right now

 

[livsbrand]

Don't forget that their Chariot Archers don't need horses. Firaxis correctly modeled the real-life trait that made Egypt such a dominant and feared power in the Ancient world, namely the ability to pull horses out of their ass.

I needed that!

 

[Catan_Settler]

I think it's that Egpyt is just viewed as kind of a cheesey civ, and it always seems to get played by noobish types. Spam some wonders at the beginning, build up what appears to be a decent score, then get crushed because all they did was spam wonders. War chariots are actually awesome if you know how to use them, but the wonder spamming and burial tombs just make Egypt such a tempting target for everyone else.

As to the cheesey thing of course that's a matter of opinion, but I do share it. I mean, as Egypt you can indeed get multiple early game wonders without really having to do anything. Other civs have to prioritize the crap out of Great Lib or Stonehenge, chop a bunch of forests, waste a pantheon belief on monument to the gods, or just get lucky with marble and take tradition. Meanwhile Egypt just queues them up and beats everyone to them.

So, in the hands of a good player who knows which wonders to prioritize and what to do after building them (aka: build an army and defend or attack) they are actually very very strong, which is why they'd be called cheesy. But most of the time, you just lose all the wonders to some noob playing them and then when you go to invade them you get the most boring 'roll over play dead' defense you've ever seen and they quit before you even get to Thebes.

As you can see, this is a clearly biased and personal opinion so do to take it with a grain of salt.