Nobles' Club 288: Julius Caesar of the Romans

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Julius Caesar of Rome, whom we last played in NC 248; we last played the Romans under Augustus Caesar in NC 272. The Romans start with Fishing and Mining.

• Traits: Julius Caesar is Imperialistic and Organized. Imperialistic adds +100% to Great General generation and +50% bonus to Settler production (note that the settler bonus doesn't apply to excess directly converted to ). Organized cuts Civic Upkeep in half, and gives a +100% bonus to Lighthouses, Courthouses and Factories.
  
• The UB: The Forum, a Market with +25% . A minor boost, which only few cities will truly benefit from, tied to an expensive building makes the Forum an overall underwhelming UB.
  
• The The Praetorian, a Swordsman with a show-stopping 8, albeit at the cost of losing it's innate +10% City Attack and costing slightly more to produce (45 rather than 40 on Normal speed). Praetorians can also be upgraded directly into Rifles and Grenadiers, meaning they can be build until you've researched both Rifling and Military Science.

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Inland Sea, temperate climate, medium sealevel, +1 AI to balance the field.

Spoiler edits :

The usual resource swaps, and some fishing resources were moved closer to your starting position.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 288 Julius Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler what is demigod :

The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[AcaMetis]

I think the game has the right of it this time, since I don't see a reason not to SIP. No convenient plains hill to move to, moving away from the coast means moving away from either corn and/or wheat and would be really slow besides with all those forests to chop...yeah. SIP, worker first, Agriculture -> BW, chop workboat, and off to the races.

What do the experts think ?

 

[krikav]

Two strong agricultural resources...
I think if SiP, then worker first and agri is the way to go.
Workboat first got to be slower.

One alternative might be: growing to pop2->half-building a worker while teching BW->whipping the worker out->chopping out a workboat.
But I think just straight agri and slowbuilt worker wins out.

Warrior 1S so get a view from that hill I think.
Settlement 2S of starting position might be an option if some nice stuff is revealed, keeps alot of rivers, keeps both agri resources and claims more land.
Such a settlement enables a good second city 1N of settler starting position.

 

[Nick723]

I would probably settle in place, and go agri -> bronze working. Settler at size two seems likely, with workboat to come after city 2.

Spoiler :

Inland sea is a funny old map script where I have really struggled.
- land outside of capital is often poor
- barbs can be a real challenge

Will therefore try to give this one a go!

 

[Gressulf]

Well, the start has my favorite tile of the game (wet Wheat, and riverside as well!) in the Capital, so I have to give this game a try!
Here we go!

Spoiler T0 :

Moved my Warrior 1S to the hill, saw some Floodplains and some riverside plains....

Spoiler :

I have to be honest, riverside plains in the middle of desert has often proven to be Jumbos, so I decided to move my Settler down to have a look.

Spoiler :

Looks the hunch I had was right... Usually I would settle on top of the Jumbos, however in this case that would mean giving up wet Corn (not the end of the world) and also potentially getting multiple Desert tiles in my Capital. Not sure if that is desirable...

Spoiler T1 :

Rome is founded

Spoiler :

I resisted the temptation of settling on the Jumbos, and I think that was the correct decision. There seems to be more desert to the west, and I get to keep the Corn. I am a bit annoyed by the desert hills to the east, but will manage. Going straight for worker. Worker will be 15 turns, so research will most likely be Agr - Hunting - Bronze, then most likely Pottery... Lets see!

Spoiler T30 :

Looks like we are on the eastern end of the map. Saladin is very close to the south. I also met our good friends Shaka and Genghis, two nice chaps!
I have researched Agr - Bronze - Hunting and will now do a detour into Archery, which I think is OK. I never research Archery tbh. I have already chopped one forest and I am now doing a 3-pop Settler. Not entirely sure where I want to settle, but choice is between 1. Between Copper and Cows to the south, or 2. PH 1W of Elephants to the north. If I go for 1, I will not go Archery I guess and do The Wheel instead.

Spoiler :

 

[konata_LS]

Satan's voice: settle on the Corn! <-- : don't do that. just don't .

Personal experiences may vary. Some people get nightmare scenarios when they start next to Shaka, some people are backstabbed by WvO or Alex, others have bad memories with Joao or Cathy. In my past games, JC declared on me more frequently than Monty and Genghis combined (sidenote: maybe that's why I value SB a little more than other players do, because Dogs are not afraid of Praets). So, for me, one of the biggest advantages of playing as JC is I won't have him as neighbour .

TBH, JC has very good traits for expansion - either peaceful or military.

Monarch from T0 to T97. Sometimes AI is, eh, a little weird .

Spoiler :

Played as JC before in Pangaea and Continents map, but never played Praets in Inland sea. Not sure if I will survive it .

If if was a Continents or Fractal map, I would SIP. But since the map details tell us it's Inland sea, intercontinental TR are almost inexistent. I prefer an inland start in such landmass. So I prefer settling 2S to SIP. 1N of the starting place would be a decent second city... not sure about it, because I might send my second settler to grab Copper .

Settings as below, no huts.


Move the settler 2S and saw Ivory. Hesitated for a while, but didn't settle on Ivory, because settling on Ivory would give too many desert tiles in the capital. So just settle 2S. Agri-Hunting-TW-BW-Pot-IW. Settled my 2nd city near the Copper and my 3rd city near the Iron.

I really didn't understand why Shaka was the first AI to reach Alphabet .

Now I have praetorians, ho-ho-ho.
DoW Saladin in 775BC and bribed Shaka on the same turn (Shaka has Alpha, if I didn't bribe him, Saladin would do).

Captured 3 cities. Saladin disappeared in 575 BC.

Tech situation on T97. I really didn't understand why Shaka researched Alphabet before IW . It seemed Charly oracled MC.


8 cities (captured 3 from Saladin and one from barbs) up to now. All my cities had no Granaries, no Libraries, because I put all the early into units .


There's still 1 unknown AI. I wonder who it is .

After all, building/chopping Granaries and some Libraries seems to be one of the priorities for the next few turns .

 

[Henrik75]

Praets are nice and all but on imm/deity probably better to pair them with catapults and develop your empire a bit before rushing into war at 2000bc.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler Map script: :

Inland sea

is a funny old map script where I have really struggled.

I prefer playing w/o knowing what map script it is, adds abit of suprise. Kindly be more careful in the future.

 

[Araius]

Spoiler T127 Immortal :

Was like 20 turns away from getting Cuirs and of course my lovely pleased neighbour Genghis and my pleased neighbour Shaka two doors down decided to DoW on me 3 turns apart.
I feel dumb for not just gifting a city to Genghis earlier to get him to Friendly but I guess that's just how the cookie crumbles.
I need to remember that when warmongers are pleased that means they're just pleased to come and kill you.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[konata_LS]

@Henrik75

Spoiler :

You're right and it's better to develop the empire a bit before the attack at Monarch as well. It was too hard for me to control myself when my praets saw Saladin built all his cities in flat land .

@krikav
Edited #6 according to your suggestions

 

[NothingBesideRemains]

Spoiler T30 :

I am now doing a 3-pop Settler. Not entirely sure where I want to settle, but choice is between 1. Between Copper and Cows to the south, or 2. PH 1W of Elephants to the north. If I go for 1, I will not go Archery I guess and do The Wheel instead.

Spoiler :

View attachment 612674

Spoiler :

You are imperialistic - slow-building settlers on high food tiles negates the hammer bonus on settlers. You already committed to BW early and are just a couple food away from 4-pop. You should 2-pop whip the settler (settler is just 50 hammers for imp leader, but is still 100 'food hammers).

Overall I like the cap placement; 2 grain resources early on negates the heath penalties from the 5 floodplains; will be a great cottaged city in the early game and can easily share the wheat and/or corn with another city or 2. Just make sure you maximize usage of the whip potential! could even do some 3-pop settler whips to max overflow.

 

[Gressulf]

Spoiler :

You are imperialistic - slow-building settlers on high food tiles negates the hammer bonus on settlers. You already committed to BW early and are just a couple food away from 4-pop. You should 2-pop whip the settler (settler is just 50 hammers for imp leader, but is still 100 'food hammers).

Overall I like the cap placement; 2 grain resources early on negates the heath penalties from the 5 floodplains; will be a great cottaged city in the early game and can easily share the wheat and/or corn with another city or 2. Just make sure you maximize usage of the whip potential! could even do some 3-pop settler whips to max overflow.

That is true, I totally forgot about this. Can't believe I did... Makes me want to restart the game to be honest!

 

[Heathcliff]

Being a nobles club game I'm counting on that we have iron nearby for some early warfare.
AcaMetis use to be nice and give us the resource for our unique unit.

I can usually take out one enemy with Preatorians on Immortal.

 

[AcaMetis]

Ensuring that the UU strategic resource is "reasonably nearby" is part of the map creation guidelines, and I see no reason to challenge that, so yes .

 

[konata_LS]

Monarch from T97 to T144:

Spoiler :

Some turns later, met Ragnar's scout. It seems he DoW once on Zara. In 275AD, Ragnar and Zara made peace.


After Currency, went to Masory-Construction, then beeline Feudalism. DoW on GK in 300AD:


After losing most of his cities, finally GK capitulated in 600AD


Ragnar started plotting for a while, I wondered who was his target


Had 15 cities on T144 (gifted one captured city back to GK). But I was too busy building units, so I only had 7 workers for 15 cities. I should have built more workers .


The religious situation was bad: everyone converted to Charlie's Buddhism . Sury founded Confu but didn't convert yet. I had to build Buddhist missionaries so that I wouldn't lose the game when someone built AP .
Tech situation on T144:


Must take a break now. It seems building 10+ workers will be the next task .

 

[konata_LS]

@Gressulf

Spoiler :

IMHO slow-building the 1st settler is not a big mistake, since you usually adopt Slavery when your settler is in transit. Perhaps you prefer put that 1 turn Anarchy after your first settler is out, as JC is not spiritual. When building your 2nd or more settlers, whipping certainly becomes more tempting than slow-building.

@Araius

Spoiler :

With IMP and Praets, you had 5 cities in 300AD. Did you get disturbed by barbs?...

@Heathcliff

Spoiler :

Since you're an Immortal player, maybe you could give some advice or constructive criticisms to #9 ? He/she only had 5 cities in 300AD at Immortal, which is unusual when playing as Rome + Iron nearby.

@AcaMetis
Having UU strategic resource is much appreciated by many new players . Yes, playing as Rome without Iron is surely challenging and fun, but for people who are still learning the game, they want to know how the UUs perform in the game. Some noobs have never used some UUs until they open their NC saves, for example I tried Egyptian WC rush for the first time in NC 274.

 

[Henrik75]

I will try this on deity soon, but for the above point, yeah you really need more land by 300AD, getting dow'd with your pants down is your own problem they love to do long distance wars on this particular type of map.

Spoiler :

Ideally you want 8-10 cities if you're going for cuirs push, which is very achievable on immortal and below with all the space you have, deity could be tough.. Or you can abuse praets on your neighbours, personally prefer them paired with catapults and 1 spear, then bee line cannons after to sweep the rest.

 

[krikav]

Deity, NH/NE

Spoiler T88 :

Whipped out the first settler. Agri->BW->Hunt->Archery->TW->Pot->AH->Myst->Writing.
Probably expanded too much, Setia and Circei doesn't contribute much and have been saving up gold ot tech aestethics for ages.

 

[Major Tom]

Deity, NH/NE

Spoiler T88 :

Whipped out the first settler. Agri->BW->Hunt->Archery->TW->Pot->AH->Myst->Writing.
Probably expanded too much, Setia and Circei doesn't contribute much and have been saving up gold ot tech aestethics for ages.

View attachment 612957

Thanks for yet another write up, Krikav. They are so well written. But what the heck are you doing this time, no war yet? By turn 88 I was expecting a swarm of Prets on the map.

 

[krikav]

@Major Tom

Spoiler :

This writeup was extremly barebone... Just one screenshot. Not at all the standard I try to aspire to, but thanks anyway!

The map script seldom lends itself to early action. There is alot of room to expand and good land too. No real need to stir up very early action.

Closest neighbours are Saladin (Protective and high culture defenses due to founding religion and the madrassa).
And Genghis Khan, unit spammer delux.

No squishy nice targets.