Nobles' Club CLVII: Mansa Musa of Mali

[elitetroops]

@dmd

Spoiler :

Depends on your goals. Did you lib yet? If not, what do you plan to lib? What is your endgame plan?

 

[hankinsohl]

Spoiler :

Emperor, normal speed, no huts/events

Although the start is crazy good - I succeeded in "bulbing" Civil Service with The Oracle - I find that large land area maps, such as this one, can be deceptively difficult.

Each AI will get 10+ cities and maybe several will be in the 15+ range. Even at Emperor difficulty - a capable civ with 15 or so cities is a big threat to win the game. With all the land area available you're probably in danger of losing to 3 or 4 of the AIs.

At least the hub map is such that it's unlikely you'll face a run-away AI (one that conquers multiple civs and is 15+ or so in cities) since you'll be able to contact all of the AIs early enough and intervene if it becomes necessary.

Anyhow, in my game, I capped India fairly early with cuirassiers versus mostly longbows (took forever for India to capitulate though, I had to reduce him from 15 cities down to about 5).

But then another feature of the huge land map affected my next target - the Dutch. The Dutch were about 8 turns or so away from my front line assuming horse travel on roads. By the time I reached the Dutch it was my cavalry against Dutch cuirassiers - fortunately the Dutch capitulated fairly quickly.

At this point I have a tech lead against most AIs - except Germany who only has 10 cities - but the lead has dwindled considerably. I should have a comfortable win by simply out producing any AI I go to war with and brute forcing victory if need be. But, due to the map size I doubt if I can shut off my aggressive stance and try for a space victory - in spite of the fact that I have 30 cities some of my rivals are in the 15+ city range and they'll likely out-tech me if I try for space.

 

[dmd175]

@dmd
Depends on your goals. Did you lib yet? If not, what do you plan to lib? What is your endgame plan?

No spoilers here, almost a general question. I had academies in two cities; lib was then about 6 turns away (got GS 820, finished machinery then lib in mid 900s), so that didn't seem like a good goal. I'm learning to press the short-term advantage in lieu of waiting for long term benefits, so as opposed to another academy or settling (or holding for a corporation), a bulb or golden age now seems the way to go. I'm terrible with the GP I always save them for GA's but just curious what would have been best to do. Does endgame plan really matter?

 

[dalamb]

I don't know of a good source of general advice on strategies for using GPs, and how the end goals change what you'll do. The few things I've heard people say are:

1. For a culture game, go for all Great Artists and culture bomb your 3rd (least) cultural city.
2. Use the first GS for an academy and the 2nd for Philosophy (since an early bulb can discourage AI from teching it, so they won't compete for the Liberalism race).
3. Save the Economics GM for Sushi or Cereal.
4. Use the Music GA for a Golden Age
5. There's a tactic that beelines Metal Casting, builds a forge, and goes for an early GE (before a GS, I think) to rush the 'mids.
6. With China games we sometimes see the advice to bulb a couple of techs on the way to Machinery for cho-ko-nu.

I'm sure there is other advice out there.

 

[Izuul]

Rarely good to build more than one academy.

 

[manaballs]

Well, you could go one east to get one more food plain.
You would get few more food plains, and it seems like there's no really good place for another city to get those flood plains.
There's mountain in east and 1S of it there seems to be desert, but if you sip and settle on the desert, it's not gonna be too impressive city because you want to keep gems in capital.
You do lose 2 grasses and +1 hammer from city tile by moving thought, but you do get extra flood plain and plain hill.

Well, hard to say without scouting east, which you cannot scout warriors being in west.

you gain one flood plain but loose the extra production from the plains hill and the grass land river tile you settled on. Not to mention you are going to have a desert tile and a mountain tile in your capitals BFC. settle in place and walk away perfectly happy IMO.

 

[georgjorge]

I don't know of a good source of general advice on strategies for using GPs, and how the end goals change what you'll do. The few things I've heard people say are:

1. For a culture game, go for all Great Artists and culture bomb your 3rd (least) cultural city.
2. Use the first GS for an academy and the 2nd for Philosophy (since an early bulb can discourage AI from teching it, so they won't compete for the Liberalism race).
3. Save the Economics GM for Sushi or Cereal.
4. Use the Music GA for a Golden Age
5. There's a tactic that beelines Metal Casting, builds a forge, and goes for an early GE (before a GS, I think) to rush the 'mids.
6. With China games we sometimes see the advice to bulb a couple of techs on the way to Machinery for cho-ko-nu.

I'm sure there is other advice out there.

Academy before Philosophy only if you do have a high commerce city (doesn't always happen, you can get to Liberalism without it as well if you rely mostly on bulbs, and Philo makes that happen faster).

There's also the possibility of bulbing both Machinery and Engineering with Great Scientists if you don't research Fishing, which can be quite strong if you're blocked in to three or four cities. You need to be fast with this strategy, so no Academy there unless you're Philo.

 

[dalamb]

There's also the possibility of bulbing both Machinery and Engineering with Great Scientists if you don't research Fishing, which can be quite strong if you're blocked in to three or four cities. You need to be fast with this strategy, so no Academy there unless you're Philo.

Right; should have said so when mentioning China in #6.

 

[hankinsohl]

Spoiler :

Emperor, normal speed - no huts/events

1815 Conquest
I won as expected, albeit much faster than I thought I would. With 30 cities and cavalry I either out-gunned and/or out-produced every civ I went to war with.

This game - a departure from my normal course of action - I decided to gift back all cities I conquered other than India's cities (India brought me to 30). This seemed to be a good strategy as I was able to continue whipping cavalry the entire game while still progressing in tech. I would have had tanks very soon versus whoever was left... but I was able to conquer all the remaining civs with just cavalry.