Nobles' Club CLXXVII: Shaka of the Zulu

[elitetroops]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Shaka of the Zulu, whom we last played in NC CXLIX. The Zulu start with Agriculture and Hunting.

• Traits: Shaka is Aggressive and Expansive. AGG means faster barracks (in this case his UB, the Ikhanda) and drydocks, and a free Combat I promotion for melee and gunpowder units. EXP means +2 , allowing bigger cities sooner if you can find happiness resources. It also gives faster granaries, harbours, and workers. Together these traits make him a very strong warmonger. Your captured cities only need to spend 55 hammers (normal speed) to get up a granary and barracks before they are ready to start pumping out more units. In addition, you get a free mini courthouse in the deal, thanks to his UB.
• The UB: The Ikhanda, a Barracks that gives -20% city maintenance, which helps you afford your aggressive expansion. Shaka is one of the few leaders in the game who gets a discount on his UB, thanks to his AGG trait.
  
  
  
• The UU: The Impi, a Spearman with 2 moves and Mobility. It isn't quite as good a city attacker as an axeman, but its faster movement across any terrain makes it a great unit for early barb defense and for worker stealing. It could also serve well as stack defender with HAs to protect against elephants.
  
  
  

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Lakes, flat world wrap, high sealevel, tropical climate, 7 handpicked AI. To those of you not familiar with flat world wrap, know that it cuts distance maintenance in half.

Spoiler edits :

Moved some strategic resources to make sure every AI has them, and swapped a resource in our nearby area with copper to give us the mandatory NC UU resource.

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:

• 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
• 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
• 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
• 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other continent if applicable, etc)
• 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
• End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC_177_Shaka_Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[elitetroops]

reserved

 

[Pangaea]

Nice resources for the starting techs of Shaka. Would be nice if the Corn was wet, but it doesn't look that way (but is still possible). Early happiness is nice too. Looks like a fine spot to just settle, but I'd probably move the scout S-SW just to see if there may be anything of value down there. If there were food down there too (though the jungle isn't my favourite sight near a capital), it might be an option to settle on the ivory for an extra hammer. As that spot would lose the corn, though, it would take something great down there to be worth it.

Probably won't play this game either, as I'm too busy with the G-Major 144 game, but good luck to everybody having a crack at it. Naturally, I assume everybody to kiss and make up, and to go for Culture or UN

 

[Gumbolt]

Probably have a go at this at some point. Not tonight though.

 

[Bibor]

Oh this is great; finally managed to get my GF hooked to civ4. This is a great way to learn.

 

[Drakon136]

Taking a shot at this game now that I have a computer that I once more have a computer that can run civ. Prince NHNE since I'm out of practice after not playing the game for about a month and a half I think. Finished the first 76 turns so far, things are going well.

Spoiler Spoiler up to T76 :

Looked like a clear SIP to me so that's what I went with, built worker warrior settler (whipped at pop 3) warrior barracks, then spammed Impi to take out my nearest neighbour; second city I think just went warrior barracks impi, or maybe barracks warrior impi. Doesn't matter either way.

Declared war on Cyrus T69, things were about as simple as they could have been. Took his capital (and the Great Wall ) and second city next turn. Could have taken the second city as soon as I declared, but I moved my stack onto a forest hill thinking I would have another move Didn't really matter luckily, as he didn't get any more troops out in time. After that was done, I took a couple turns to heal my troops, then took out his last city, grabbing a few workers in the process. I'm not quite sure what to do right now, but I'm thinking that continued conquest with impi would be a poor idea, as I imagine they become obsolete as attackers very quickly, even against so many civs with mounted UUs. It doesn't help that the other civs don't seem to be very near at all.

Here are a couple screenshots showing the state of the burgeoning Zulu Empire:


Ignore the dotmap I have placed in those, I have yet to remove it and place one somewhere more useful; say, that juicy looking spot 1NE1E of its current position.

 

[InovA]

Immortal NHNE:

4000 BC:

Spoiler :

Moved the scout to see the wheat in south and pigs to the west.
Settled in place with the idea of sharing elephant + flood plains with a city to the south.

Up to 1000 BC:

Spoiler :

Tech Path:
Mining - BW - Wheel - Pot - Writing - AH - Fishing - Aesthetics

City Build:
Work - War (start) - Work (@3)(chop) - Settler (2x chop) - Settler (chop + whip)

Because we don't need a food tech other than the starting Agg, I rushed to BW. Because I was able to chop a 2nd worker, I figured getting 2 workers before a settler would be a solid play.

I actually had 2 goes at this, the first never got AH or Fishing, has Mysticism, and is behind ~180 beakers and has 87% of the tech rate of my 2nd time around. I wanted to try out an axe rush on Persia and took Pasargadae and a 2nd, small city.
Map:

Spoiler :

Persia is crippled, but these two cities are subpar and will stay that way for quite some time.

My 2nd attempt involved the way I'm used to playing, REX start and ignore early wonders. I could've tried for the Oracle, but it finished before I had Writing. Maybe if I delayed Pottery + Writing and prechopped a plenty I could've gotten it. Pyramids are long gone, I'll go for the Great Lib.

Map:

Spoiler :

The unhindered Persia will be more difficult to take out in this setup, but I should have better tech. If I kept the first attempt I could have much more land in the midgame, but I'll keep the 2nd attempt. I should have better tech and a still have a solid ~9-10 cities by 500 AD.

 

[elitetroops]

@Drakon:

Spoiler :

Well done on the Impi rush! Did he even have archers yet? Did his third city autoraze at pop 1? Looks like it had no resources, but it had 6 lake tiles and is coastal for access to lighthouse, so it could have been a pretty decent city to keep.

I think you should send a couple of Impi exploring to find out where all the other AI are. You are probably right though that they'll be obsolete for warfare soon. When the AI has axes, it's time for them to retire.

Persians gave you both marble and stone. Nice! Gives you a lot of options for how to proceed. You can abuse failgold to pay for Rex, for example. The safe way to continue your war is to use those elephants.

Egypt at 1 city is kind of weird. Has he been building lots of wonders? Is the holy city shrined? Probably a city worth taking, if you can find it.

I myself moved the scout and settled Ulundi. Lots to think about...

Spoiler :

After revealing the wet wheat, I decided I need it in my BFC. Until CS, it is 1h1c stronger than the dry corn. SIP gives you a worker in 13 turns (you get PHF after border pop for bonus expansive hammer. Moving 1S to immediately work the PHF gets the worker out the same turn. I lost a forest by settling on it, but working that wheat so much earlier makes up for those hammers. Didn't want to move all the way to the phants and lose the corn.

But now comes the hard part. Early worker turns. I can put 1 turn into camp on the way to wheat and another turn into it on the way from wheat to corn. But that brings it to 2 turns from completion, so should I complete it immediately, or head for corn anyway? If I complete it, would I even want to work it, or would I prefer floodplains? Or should I even partially build farms on floodplains instead of partially building the camp when moving capital->wheat->corn and aim for whipping settler at pop 4 or 5? This is the kind of start where I feel like using a test game...

 

[Pangaea]

Started playing this after all. Played 50 turns so far, 2000BC. Immortal.

Spoiler :

Like mentioned earlier, I sent the scout south. Since I saw what I first thought was coast, but after hovering was lake, I sent him east instead of west onto the hill. The hill was surrounded by forest/jungle anyway, so wouldn't reveal much. But by going south I did notice the extra food, so I decided to settle 1S. Upon settling, there would have been double food with SIP too, but the wet wheat is a little better pre-CS, and the site gets another riverside cottage spot, so I'm reasonably pleased.

Scout then west eastwards, and noticed a couple of golds. Not bad! Bad luck with the RNG in a sense, as three bears popped up nearby, so the scout was in quite some bother. Eventually I decided to scout what little he could, instead of healing for 7 turns, and probably dying to a normal barb. Next turn he got forked by two wolves. Killed the first one, but the second got him. A warrior went west (since scout didn't go that way), but somehow managed to lose to an injured barb archer in a forest (on defence ofc).

However, by turn 50 I do have 3 cities, an Ikhanda in the capital. Working on a 2nd worker, and have queued another settler. Not sure where to place him yet, but I hope there is more food to the west, without needing to tech Fishing. If nothing else, there is the Sheep, although 3 is hardly something to throw a party about.



Not going to claim great play here, and the barbs made it sticky for me (the northern injured warrior had to withdraw from the forested hill as he would have died to yet another barb archer). But it's still a decent position I think. Not found any AI borders yet, so I got Pottery. Research so far went: Mining-BW-Wheel-AH-Pottery. 3 AH resources nearby, and I would probably settle at least one early, so it made sense to me, though it's not always the best to double up on both BW and AH, as it's easy to get in trade if you get Alpha reasonably early. Horse in an awkward spot.

Not the most pleasant crew, but not one of the ultimate bad guys either. Need to explore much more around the capital, and hopefully there are some decent settling spots to the south, despite the jungle, and west. Otherwise I'll have to trek east, incurring maintenance, to grab the 2nd gold and whatever else might be over there.

e: Little unlucky with the tilting of the resource bubbles, as they hide all city sizes. They are 5, 3, 1, if that should be of interest.

 

[elitetroops]

Dont think I've ever seen this before (not really spoilery information):

Spoiler :

mids built before Stonehenge

Built by:

Spoiler :

My closest neighbor...

 

[Gator Country]

I've started this one, too. Prince, Normal, huts but no events. At 675 BC-

Spoiler :

I just killed Cyrus on the last turn with an Impi rush. He had a few archers between his three cities so I did take some losses. His last city was off to the west and autorazed - nothing much useful there anyway.

I ended up settling 1S of the starting position to pick up the wheat. Went worker > warriors to size 4, then whipped a settler. Got my third city set down by T55 (a bit slow, and getting my third city 3-5 turns after 50 seems to be a persistent problem with my games), got copper hooked up, and then geared up for war.

Early tech was Mining > TW> BW>Myst >AH>Pottery, then right to Alpha. Picked up Fishing, Archery, Sailing and IW through trades. I lost a couple of early units to barb attacks, but now that I have Cyrus's Great Wall, I don't need to worry about them as much.

Never mind the research - I was fiddling around in the tech tree trying to figure out how many turns away Feudalism is - I'm actually researching HBR and am three turns away from it. Since I traded for Archery I can start building HAs as soon as it's done.

The dotmap is where I'm thinking about settling another city. The food is pretty bad, but it does get me iron plus another gold, plus it gets me that much closer to Kublai. I can farm that tile 1W of the cows, and once CS is in I can use it to irrigate some of the other tiles for more farms. If I take Kublai out I'd pretty much own the entire northern part of the map, but the maintenance is going to be murder - I'm already at -19 gpt at 100%, even with Currency in.

Another option is whipping up some HAs and sending them SW with some Impis as stack defenders to wipe out Sury - since it's NC he'll have elephants, and it might be nice to eliminate him before he can start building a bunch of them. Not sure if my window's big enough to pull that one off, though - maybe I should get Construction in and build some siege first.

 

[Gator Country]

Dont think I've ever seen this before (not really spoilery information):

Spoiler :

mids built before Stonehenge

Built by:

Spoiler :

My closest neighbor...

Dayum. Maybe I should have waited for my nearest neighbor to build that one for me.
(j/k - no way that could happen on Prince.) So far the only wonders that have been built in my game are

Spoiler :

SH, TGW and the Oracle.

One other thought that just occurred to me is to maybe detour to Masonry so I can go for GLH in Perseopolis. That big lake to my south might make it worthwhile if I keep Ramssees around a while as a trade partner. Once it grows it's got some really good hammers, too. May be a bit late for that, though.

 

[Pangaea]

Heavily reminded why barbs suck for competitive play (and the RNG too, but we all know that ).

2 warriors to defend against an invading barb archer. Normal warrior (with Combat of course) loses, and archer is down to 2 strength. A Cover warrior attacks him at 80% and loses, without scratching the fecker. Next, a warrior in a forest loses to another barb warrior.

Well then, that was fun

Okay, I could cold whip an axe and deal with it now, but after crap like that I lose all interest. Good luck to the others. Hopefully your RNG rolls suck less than mine did.

 

[Metaslab]

Also made a start. A bigger start than planned! So addictive...

EDIT: Forgot to add settings. Immortal normal, NHNE

Took notes as I went:

Spoiler :

Scout 1S reveals wheat. So settling 1S for 2 food could be good. No way of knowing what would be lost from the top 3 SiP tiles. Moved settler 1W to reveal one more tile, then 1SE onto 1S below starting position, to reveal 1 more tile without losing a turn.

Hmm... on T2 the Blue Circle of Great Advice is suggesting I settle 1NW of starting position. Settled as planned:

Spoiler :

So would have had 2 food with SiP anyway. Still a decent cap. FPH SE of city square means quick worker with EXP.

Start with Mining and worker. Will be plenty for him to do.

T5 3800BC Persian scout appears from SW. Persia has early mounted UU, I have an early mounted-counter UU. Could be interesting. Finding Cyrus' land and getting Impis seems to be a priority. Scout started circling anticlockwise though so will take a few turns to bring him round for exploration.

T6 3760BC Border pop reveals gold E. Now that I have visibility around starting location, am happy with decision to move settler. Gained better tiles than I lost. Scout ended up on hill next to a lion though! (2N of Gold)

Spoiler :

Survived with 0.3 remaining! Hopped back into borders for faster healing.

T9 3640BC Mining in, start BW

T13 3480BC Hannibal appears from E. Had originally thought the coast E of Ulundi meant I was on the E end of a landmass. But it's a lake, and maybe we're more central than thought. Worker also done this turn (start on corn as highest yield), started warrior. Working a FP. Scout healed, heading W.

T14 3440BC Scout lands next to lion again. This time on the jungled hillpigs, could be OK...

T15 3400BC He's a plucky little fella! And now WM1 too.

T16 3360BC Hannibal converts to Hinduism. Buddhism was FIDL T14.

T17 3320BC Kublai appears from NE. Busy neighbourhood. Could be Pangea? Shaka should enjoy that if so.

Put 3rd citizen to work FPH to get the warrior out. Want to start settler at S4, with 2 warriors done. Then 2-pop whip.

T25 3000BC BW in, revealing copper to NE. Excellent. Started Wheel. 1st city will go in-between copper and gold. No fresh water, but 3 strong resources in 1st ring. Hope there's an AI close by as this makes me feel bloodthirsty!

Warrior heads SE.

T26 2960BC found Khmer borders SW.

T28 2880BC 2nd warrior heads NW.

T29 2840BC Revolt to Slavery. Have 1T into Ikhanda as would have cost too much yield to time growth and warrior-completion exactly.

T31 2760BC found Cyrus directly W. Land between us doesn't look great but he could be rushable, esp. if he settles towards me. Worker pre-chopping forest 1W of city square, then will road to 2nd location once Wheel is in.

T33 2680BC started Pottery. Considered AH - useful to know who has horses, if nothing else - but there are other ways of finding out (mysterious yields on apparently unresourced tiles, enemy chariots), and no AH resources required anytime soon.

T34 2640BC Cyrus has both stone and marble. And a pasture 1N of his marble. Hasn't built any immortals that I can see. Have him pencilled-in as target 1, but haven't seen enough E to be sure. Hope he'll build an early wonder or two for me. Settler whippable, but will wait 1T for max OF, and give the worker a bit more time to finish roading.

T36 2560BC 1st warrior survived a fight against a warrior in southern jungle.

T37 2520BC uMgwhatever founded, starts worker using improved corn. Ulundi working phants and wheat. OF finished Ikhanda in 1T, now another warrior, also 1T.

T38 2480BC 2nd warrior heads W to spawnbust. Cyrus currently leading, giving another reason to go for him. EPs on him. Also met Justin this turn. No idea where he is. Can see yellow borders across the S lake.

T41 2360BC Copper mine finished same turn that Ulundi regrows to S3, so uMg works that to speed worker by 1T, Ulundi gets the corn back.
Was about to finish the turn when I noticed that Cyrus had 2 workers on the marble that my warrior 1 had been camped next to.

Spoiler :

The workersteal also allowed a glimpse into both his cities. Nothing but archers yet. Neither is on a hill, which is nice. Probably shouldn't have started with worker in uMg, but never mind.

T44 2240BC Cyrus is ready to take peace. Only Justin is pleased with him, so hopefully won't harm overall diplo too much to cease fire and re-DoW in the not-too-distant. Immediate tech path not obvious, but thinking AH. Don't have time for library straight away. A city between me and Cyrus could be good, maybe to grab fish, but no fishing, so feels like a distraction. He might settle somewhere in that gap anyway. He also built the GW this turn. Hope he's going for Mids!

Build path seems clearer - go and troll Cyrus with Impis while axes schlep their way over, then attack.

T46 2160BC first two losses. Southern spawnbusting warrior beaten by an archer, scout by a warrior W of Khmer lands.

T53 1880BC lost another warrior scouting E

T57 1720BC Mobility is an awesome promotion. Had an Impi sitting on Cyrus' marble (he'd offered OB despite being worst enemy) so I could see into Persepolis and Pasargarde. Worker appeared on the hill 1S. So with 2 moves and mobility, was able to leave his borders, redeclare and take that worker in this same turn.

So it's war now! Bit late for this sort of rush, but looking pretty solid I think. An Impi who was scouting his western land was able to take out an immortal in the open, and two more came out of my cities the following turn, putting power ratio at 0.9. Have roaded to Persepolis so the journey over there is swift - only takes 2t to be in position to attack. Won't bother with axes, the speed of Impis more than makes up for their lower .

T59 1640BC Have four Impis in position that could attack either Persepolis or Pasargarde. Forking with melee - love it! Pasa has only 1 archer - pop 3 though so could whip between turns. Got writing this turn, chose Alpha next but running 0% science so can change if anyone else gets it. Lots of "will open borders" messages so quite a few AIs still lack writing. In fact all of them except Cyrus, I think. So Alpha looks good for now.

T60 1600BC Still only one archer in Pasa. He's whipped another immortal in Perse

Spoiler :

Wow very lucky! 1st attacker took Pasa at <10% odds! (Better play the lottery tonight huh)

Want to get min 6 Impi for Perse - 2 each for each of the two archers, 1 each for the two immortals.

T62 1520BC had to deal with some barbs due to lack of fogbusters, delaying reinforcements' arrival at the front. Cyrus whipped another immortal in Perse

T63 1480BC That Immortal he just whipped? Decided to move it 2S.

Spoiler :

Rough neighbourhood, buddy.

Lady luck smiles on the mighty Zulu nation today! First Impi succeeds at 8% odds. Next one dies at 18%, but leaves archer at 1.5 . Odds for the next attack are 93.71%.

Only immortals left now. 96%.

Persepolis is mine! 138 capture gold, enough for Alpha at 100%, plus the GW and a granary. Stone and Marble already quarried, so might try to chop Mids here. Plan on keeping all 3 of his cities, so will need help with economy. This war is won. Both core cities happened to be at the start of Impi builds, so switched to library (Ulundi) and granary (uMg).

Ironically, after taking Perse, I had nothing left to take out that brave, foolish immortal, as a barb warrior had to be dealt with S of Pasa.

T64 1440BC After taking out that warrior with the Impi healing in Pasa, he was weakened enough for the rogue immortal to take him out. Took it straight back of course. Damn though - if I'd saved his promotion instead of taking CR2 straight away this probably wouldn't have happened, as could have used the promo after killing the warrior.

T65 1400BC Impi in uMg healed after dealing with an archer. Sent him E for scouting - have plenty troops to deal with Cyrus. No more whipping in cap from now - cottagespam has begun.

T68 1280BC Cyrus is dead. Decided to raze Susa - no food. Perse and Pasa both out of revolt. Brainfart moment: was thinking, "why isn't Mids showing up as a build option? It hasn't been built yet". Of course you actually need Masonry .... . Switched research, will only take 3 turns. Prechopping Perse.

T71 1160BC Started settlers in core cities. Planning on 1S of fish and 1SE of pigs.

Spoiler :

Ulundi running two scientists. Slowing the settler, but both sites are useless until I have more techs (IW/ fishing). Alpha in 5 turns so hope to have traded for them by the time I'm ready to found.

T72 1120BC Damn, Justin has Alpha. I'm 4T away.

T76 975BC Alpha is in. Traded it to Hannibal for IW and Fishing. Kublai and Sury lacked writing. So ready to settle now - made Ulundi's scientists temporarily redundant as a result.

T77 950BC realised that I'd missed a tile out of the road between my core and Persia. Filling that in now, using the chance to build cheap MP by churning out a couple warriors in Pasa. Myst + Archery for Writing + Fishing from Sury. No worst enemies yet so free choice of trading partners for now.

T79 900BC Shaka's maps have proved that the world is flat!

Spoiler :

T86 725BC Math turned out to be a good call for next tech. I have a complete monopoly. Traded it for Sailing with Kublai, and Med + Poly with Sal. They did well out of those deals, but preferred not to give more techs to the leaders Sury and Hannibal. Currency next. Perse borderpop due next turn (used OF from monument and library into Mids) and all second-ring forests are prechopped, so Mids should be quick.

T90 625BC Only took two chops to finish the Mids. Seems like a good place to pause. Lots of options from here. Will go Rep, do some REXing, make plans to flatten everybody quickly. Wonderspam/ failgold potential thanks to Perse's resources. Aesth line looks good. Might want to do some elepulting too. 2 settlers due after revolution, GS from Ulundi in 4 turns. Should set up a GP farm somewhere after that.

The empire:

Spoiler :

Not sure about current dotmap. Will think on it next session. And ignore red, that was for spawnbusting earlier.

Tech:

Spoiler :

Not sure what to do about trade. Could get Mono and Priesthood from either Hannibal or Justin for Math, but would rather trade with someone lower down the food chain than Hannibal, and wondering if I should keep a monopoly tech on Justin with a future trade for MC in mind.

 

[Metaslab]

@Pangaea

Spoiler :

Looks like I hoovered up today's RNG-luck quotient with my attacks on Cyrus. Sorry!

@elite

Spoiler :

That's hella quick! I finished Mids 625BC. Are you playing Deity? Also, I was feeling like I'd had tight micro so far this game, but the detail of your thoughts over early worker actions are another level

 

[elitetroops]

@Pangaea: You really should try out Impis as barb defense. They're awesome. They move so fast that you only need a couple outside your borders as mobile defenders. Get up a cheap Ikhanda and they're C1+cover out of the gate and once the barbs start arriving they'll be C3+cover in no time.

@Metaslab: Nice going! Is it immortal difficulty? Edit: saw your edit. I'm also playing immortal.

@Gator:

Spoiler :

Your dotted city should absolutely go 1S for faster access to gold.

Don't worry about losing X gold/turn, it's the beakers/turn that count. Marble and stone can help you keep the slider up. Currency has no effect on gold deficit if you are running 100% slider, it only increases beakers.

So weird to see all those Prince AI with so few cities. Not even enough cities in the world yet for the barbs to attack!

Oh, and don't mention AI by name outside spoilers.

 

[Pangaea]

The barbs invaded before I got hooked up metal. However, I can imagine Impis are pretty decent barb defence due to mobility. At least until they run into Axes.

 

[Gator Country]

@Gator:

Spoiler :

Your dotted city should absolutely go 1S for faster access to gold.

Don't worry about losing X gold/turn, it's the beakers/turn that count. Marble and stone can help you keep the slider up. Currency has no effect on gold deficit if you are running 100% slider, it only increases beakers.

So weird to see all those Prince AI with so few cities. Not even enough cities in the world yet for the barbs to attack!

Oh, and don't mention AI by name outside spoilers.

I missed that spoiler, but I've fixed it. Thanks!

And I'll definitely move that city 1S.

I've just started getting non-animal barbs; I've seen a couple of them with my scout to the south. Most of the AIs have three cities now, or are sending settlers out for their third. I've located borders for all of them except

Spoiler :

Justinian. I'm thinking he's somewhere off to the east of Kublai and Hannibal.

Spoiler :

I haven't started back up yet, but the more I think about it the more I think I'm going to work on Kublai as my next target. I can then put the squeeze on Hannibal. In that case I'll probably save Sury for after I get cuirs. It looks to me like he's in the southwest corner of the map anyway, so expanding east gets me closer to more AIs. Plus, I don't exactly relish having to hack all that jungle.

The map is kind of deceptive; in the beginning I thought I was near the northeast corner, but it looks like I'm more central than that.

 

[Drakon136]

@elitetroops:

Spoiler Spoiler up to T76 :

Third city indeed autorazed due to 1 pop. Cyrus had four archers, but he moved two to protect his settler for the third city, leaving his other cities with one archer and one warrior each; easy pickings for my Impi horde.

Ramesses at one city wasn't something I noticed, but as far as I know only Stonehenge and TGW were built, so I assume he built the former. As for the failgolding thing, that seems interesting but I'm still not exactly sure how one does that. Do I just put hammers into a wonder in one city, then stop production and finish it elsewhere to convert the hammers into gold?

 

[Pangaea]

On failgold:
You usually don't try to complete the wonder yourself, but put hammers into it, and then wait for an AI to build it. You can even almost complete wonders in several cities if the AIs are really slow to them, especially if you have bonus resources + IND.