Nobles' Club CXXV Alexander of Greece
- Thread starter Robert FIN
- Start date
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
I'll try to reproduce it when I have the time... But it really looks like a bug
Robert FIN
Emperor
Let's discuss about my maps: I'd like to hear what's wrong with 'em! They've been the worst rated of all forum maps. I'm new to this so I'd like to hear what is wrong with them and how to fix that. Telling me that my map is just bad doesn't help me enough and it may make me feel dispirited and frustrated. Its just me, I get stressed of getting negative feedback and dislike making small mistakes because I'm a little of perfectionist. Sorry for my outbursts what have happened after noticing that my map was bad. Sooo... Can you tell how can I improve my mapmaking, I won't be furious or anything..
@ Robert. I wouldn't think too hard about it. Not every start needs to be perfect. Part of the fun at least for me is being forced to mix up my gameplay so a cramped non-bureau capital start like this was a welcome change of pace. I enjoyed playing this map a lot.
Murky
Deity
Not every map needs to be perfect. This is Nobles club after all. If you lower the difficulty enough, any starting position will work for most people.
When I'm looking for HOF for starts I generally look for at least 2 commerce resources, some river tiles and at least one food source. I also dislike starting near a lot of desert or tundra tiles. Coastal starts are okay so long as the surrounding area isn't too bad.
Tall German Joe
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2005
- Messages
- 514
well, what I think it comes down to is that, at least from the two maps of yours I remember, that winning on them required a very specific strategy, and most people like the game to be more open-ended.
for example, in the first map (at least the first version that everyone saw), the player had gold, TONS of land to expand into, and a weak, easily-cowed neighbor. so, the obvious thing to do was to REX up to 20 cities, at which point the game is won any way you choose, if you're willing to put the time into finishing it. essentially, it was too easy and too boring. most players don't like maps with tons of land for this reason; a big player can always beat a big AI, but the time and effort to do so is extreme and requires a lot of busywork.
this game, on the other hand, was a lot more interesting. the start was certainly not easy! in fact, the initial bad reaction to the map was because the land surrounding the capital was VERY bad. both ice AND desert just outside of the BFC was a huge turnoff to a lot of players. on top of that, since it was a NC game (and because you specifically said so in the edits section of the opening post), many players expected there to be copper nearby to deal with the constant barb threats from the north, and were disappointed to find that both sources were quite far away. you did try to fix the land situation with a couple of delicious clams
mischief, but that meant the only good expansion spots were along the coast, towards the direction of hannibal (and the elephants/copper/coastfish/lakeclams super city), and so there wasn't really a lot of potential for creative play or variation in what direction peoples' games took from there. however, I still ended up having a lot of fun on this map because I initially didn't see this potential at first, and felt surprised at what I could manage from what I had thought was junk.
I dunno, mapmaking is very hard and I certainly appreciate you guys who do it. the only thing I could suggest is to playtest your maps. if you find it fun yourself then it is probably pretty good, and don't worry about any of us who like to whine.
for example, in the first map (at least the first version that everyone saw), the player had gold, TONS of land to expand into, and a weak, easily-cowed neighbor. so, the obvious thing to do was to REX up to 20 cities, at which point the game is won any way you choose, if you're willing to put the time into finishing it. essentially, it was too easy and too boring. most players don't like maps with tons of land for this reason; a big player can always beat a big AI, but the time and effort to do so is extreme and requires a lot of busywork.
this game, on the other hand, was a lot more interesting. the start was certainly not easy! in fact, the initial bad reaction to the map was because the land surrounding the capital was VERY bad. both ice AND desert just outside of the BFC was a huge turnoff to a lot of players. on top of that, since it was a NC game (and because you specifically said so in the edits section of the opening post), many players expected there to be copper nearby to deal with the constant barb threats from the north, and were disappointed to find that both sources were quite far away. you did try to fix the land situation with a couple of delicious clams
mischief, but that meant the only good expansion spots were along the coast, towards the direction of hannibal (and the elephants/copper/coastfish/lakeclams super city), and so there wasn't really a lot of potential for creative play or variation in what direction peoples' games took from there. however, I still ended up having a lot of fun on this map because I initially didn't see this potential at first, and felt surprised at what I could manage from what I had thought was junk.I dunno, mapmaking is very hard and I certainly appreciate you guys who do it. the only thing I could suggest is to playtest your maps. if you find it fun yourself then it is probably pretty good, and don't worry about any of us who like to whine.
pigswill
fly (one day)
I posted a while back about having some challenging NC starts so no complaints from me.
Having copper pop within 5 (land) tiles of the start would have made the early game more straightforward.
Having copper pop within 5 (land) tiles of the start would have made the early game more straightforward.
The Oz-Man
Enter: The VAIKE!
In my defense, when I said it was a terrible map, I was having a pretty crappy day. It's not that big a deal.
Robert FIN
Emperor
Okay, I've read all your posts and I agreed to all of them. The result was; Everyone is happy but maybe I should use more time to check the map. Check that the map is balanced, check that the area around us is reasonable. And Oz-Man: No problem mate, I'm not mad to you or anyone else. In my CFC time I've had MANY crappy days and I post here nearly every day. Posting here almost every day + Having crappy day at times = Causes crappy posts at times. This happens to me allthe time and after that I feel bad... True story, this must be common problem to everyone! Happy to see you still posting Oz-Man!! 
You're a hard working guy since I know that you're a busy man and you still post. And yeah, your crappy day post was also true, it was unfair start, sorry 'bout that!
You're a hard working guy since I know that you're a busy man and you still post. And yeah, your crappy day post was also true, it was unfair start, sorry 'bout that!ben-jammin
Emperor
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2011
- Messages
- 1,436
This map was great up to Immortal, too boxed in with poor land to try much of anything except maybe a culture win. But without marble...
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
Enjoyed the map a lot Robert (Immortal UN win ~1850 AD)
It was unconventional and therefore asked for use of an unconventional approach. This would be a good map for players who want to learn how to use the Philo trait IMO
It was unconventional and therefore asked for use of an unconventional approach. This would be a good map for players who want to learn how to use the Philo trait IMO
pigswill
fly (one day)
Emperor normal uneventful.
1605 conquest victory. 179k. Straightforward cannon/grens. Looks like horses would have been quicker.
1605 conquest victory. 179k. Straightforward cannon/grens. Looks like horses would have been quicker.
Robert FIN
Emperor
Thanks for the comment. We'll surely try to keep you pro players in mind in future games too!
I liked this start and I thought the map was winnable on Deity... but then I lost my second city to a barb Archer at 10.9% odds and didn't play on.
Robert FIN, if you'd ever like someone to look over a map before you post, I would be happy to do so. Just give me a 'final product' and 24 hours notice, and I can give you some feedback.
Keep up the good work.
Robert FIN, if you'd ever like someone to look over a map before you post, I would be happy to do so. Just give me a 'final product' and 24 hours notice, and I can give you some feedback.
Keep up the good work.
Robert FIN
Emperor
Hmm, interesting idea Doshin. I'd like try it out. Let's change emails in PM's Doshin. Next map I planned to host is NC Roosy. Thanks for offer.
m00n
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2011
- Messages
- 76
Played it on Imortal - 1900 ad Domination. It was all going well I got 6 citys, TGL. I fended off a Roman backstab and got a city out of it & took out Carthage with Cats/Elephants. And just when I though, I got this! 8 city Rome vassels to 10 city Arabia after they took just one city. Next turn Egypt peacevassels to Persia. I decide I have to grab Crete now to stay in the game and they AP vote me out of the war, because they all like me... s!
So I build up for ten more rounds and crush them. Meanwhile a stroke of luck, Persia declares on Arabia. I got Cannon/Rifle now and the Romans broke free cause Persia took a city. I take Rome in a 4 round war. Persia and Arabia have Infantry now, but with Cannons you can. I take Arabia and declare on Peria. My vassels deal Egypt at the back and I start the Invasion of Persia. They now have tanks. I have no research so I steal techs from Arabia and upgrade to Infantry/Artillery half way though the war, cause it's taking me so long.
Because Cyrus thinks he's strong enough to take me with the three cities he has left, I make peace and get the last city I need to get Domination. Aaaand a joke of a score... 70000
But hey it was my first game in a while, not an easy map, and I beat it. I guess that's fine.
So I build up for ten more rounds and crush them. Meanwhile a stroke of luck, Persia declares on Arabia. I got Cannon/Rifle now and the Romans broke free cause Persia took a city. I take Rome in a 4 round war. Persia and Arabia have Infantry now, but with Cannons you can. I take Arabia and declare on Peria. My vassels deal Egypt at the back and I start the Invasion of Persia. They now have tanks. I have no research so I steal techs from Arabia and upgrade to Infantry/Artillery half way though the war, cause it's taking me so long.
Because Cyrus thinks he's strong enough to take me with the three cities he has left, I make peace and get the last city I need to get Domination. Aaaand a joke of a score... 70000
But hey it was my first game in a while, not an easy map, and I beat it. I guess that's fine.
Noble Zarkon
Elite Quattromaster - Immortal (BTS)
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Another thing you can try for testing is the AutoPlay Mod, using this you can get a game played in 20 minutes or so. I uusally run my maps at Noble a couple of times and then Deity for a couple more, just looking to see if anyone runs away with it and does the same Civ always win.
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