Nobles' Club XCV: Frederick of Germany

[dalamb]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Frederick of Germany, whom we last played in NC IV; we last played the Germans under Bismark in NC LXIX. The Germans start with Hunting and Mining.

• Traits: Frederick is Organized and Philosophical. ORG reduces city maintenance by 50%, which is critical for building bigger empires early in the game, especially with its cheaper courthouses. It also gives faster lighthouses and assembly plants (the UB). PHI gives +100% Great Person points and faster universities.
• The UB: The Assembly Plant, a Factory that allows 4 Engineer specialists instead of 2. Once again considered somewhat weak because it appears in the late game, and the extra specialists are only useful in a production city that also has enough food to run them.
  
  
• The UU: The Panzer, a Tank with +50% vs armour units. Generally considered weak because it's a late-game UU; it is somewhat useful in the narrow circumstance of a late-game war against an industrialized AI.
  

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Custom continents, 3 continents, random opponents.

Spoiler edits :

Since we have Hunting I swapped with an AI who had elephants nearby. Changed one flatland into a hill and swapped the corn with a forest 1E to put it next to the river.

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:

• 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
• 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
• 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
• 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
• continent if applicable, etc)
• 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
• End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 95 Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[dalamb]

Reserved.

 

[Evil Beejeebers]

OK I will have a little shot at this one.

 

[lymond]

jungle elephants in BFC....eeenteresting

 

[The Oz-Man]

Freddy is probably my favorite leader in the game, so I'll definitely play this one.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I'm pretty sure that camps can be built without needing to remove forests/jungles. Since Germany starts with hunting, that's early happy cap boost. With a religion or 1 more early happy resource, this will be a whipping paradise. I think I'll shadow this one.

 

[Evil Beejeebers]

I started this one played about 150 turns but I am not really feeling it for some reason.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I started this one played about 150 turns but I am not really feeling it for some reason.

I played about the same number, too. Perhaps it's because

Spoiler :

The map is too straightforward. Tons of food, and not much in the way of good commerce spots with only 1 easygoing AI on the immediate landmass is just too easy & obvious for a PHI leader.

 

[PeteJ]

I decided to go deity for this one...

To 50 AD:

Spoiler :

After staring at the start for a few minutes I decided to SIP. Research went agriculture>BW>wheel>fishing>sailing >masonry with the idea to go for the GLH. After that I squeezed in myst for border pops(turns out this wasn't necessary because Mansa would start spamming missionaries soon after this point), then pottery>writing>alpha(also a mistake but at this point I had only met Mansa and I wanted to trade and spy on him). I then went for currency>aesthetics(for trades)>then CS. I used alpha, currency, and aesthetics to backfill and trade for monarchy, IW, COL, and math. I was also able to steal lit from Mansa. Right now I'm taking a stab at the music artist since I was able to steal lit. After that I'll head towards lib and go from there. Mansa is getting pretty huge so I want take care of him as soon as I can, probably with cuirs.

So right now I'm at 9 cities with number 10 en route to an island to the east. I have the GLH and I'm crossing my fingers for the swedagon paya and the music artist for some GS farming. I also have a good amount of gold already thanks to 2 GMs that popped in my capital.

Some pictures:

West

Spoiler :

East

Spoiler :

Tech

Spoiler :

 

[Archon_Wing]

lol wut

I think I can fit 6 cities just around this capital. Should I even bother with cottages? If I locate stone it will be the best game ever. <3 PHI

But, FYI, that map script you picked leads to some really wacky stuff at times.

 

[AndiD]

Signing in for Monarch Epic with BAT mod.

Quick question: I started a scenario from the Monarch Huts game. On the civ select screen, I can choose my speed and difficulty (Monarch) but all the AIs stay on "Noble" level. Working as intended?

 

[lymond]

Working as intended?

yes....

 

[AndiD]

Up to 900 BC. Would love feedback, only got recently back into civving and guess I'm still lacking routine.

Spoiler :

Met Mansa and Justin (the latter via his workboat), both still without religion.

Founded three cities quickly to seal off my chunk of land (see screenshot), and grabbed the GLH - that should finance the upcoming REX phase. Neglected running specialists so far since my blocker cities are lacking food, except Hamburg which is going to churn out axemen and workers after the Galley (the latter for the barb galley already appearing in the NE). Despite all this, leading in food, hammers and GNP.

Got all early techs, turned the slider only just back on after I got my first library in Berlin. Still undecided for my tech path since Mansa is already working on CoL. Short term goal is CoL+Currency+Iron Working for REX but I'd rather get CoL as a trade. Research path and bulbed techs will depend on whether Mansa gets Confucianism, whether he converts, whether he missionary spams me, his next tech, and the time frame where all this happens.

Next upcoming cities are Oxford (blue, below Berlin) and Wall Street (yellow, east of Berlin) for a hybrid economy - Oxford running scientists and Wall Street running merchants to keep GP pools pure. Other gray cities in the dotmap will be cottaged.



Hamburg and Berlin are running unhappy faces due to a gold mine about to come online in two turns (just out of the picture in the north), so that's planned.

As said before, any feedback is appreciated. Map looks like a builder's dream so far.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Played to 1AD. Marathon/Monarch/No Huts/No Events/No Barbs (yeah, because they are just a pain in the ass)

Spoiler :

Quick recap: Rush REXed to block off Mansa even taking fairly crappy block spot in the center of the continent. I was planning on making that city a CS-farmed specialist/whip city. But to cover maintenance costs and keep my research thriving, I put cottages down. Hey, it made the city not suck.

I planned on having a commerce heavy city (immediately to the west of the capital) for income and another hybrid commerce/production city (which blocked off that peninsula north of the capital). So, adding in that center blocking city with the cottage spam, I actually have a pretty heavy commerce economy going right now. Not what I planned but it is definitely fueling a heavy research advantage.

I just finished the GLib and am about to finish CS to start farm-spamming. From here on out, I'll be training a few more settlers for more specialist cities, getting some more military out from my southern production city (it looks like Justinian might actually try a foolish overseas invasion), bulbing Philo with a stored GS, and then switching to Caste System/Pacifism for GS spamming. I'll probably be able to settle a bunch more cities and allow those commerce cities to fuel the expansion while my growing specialist population will keep the science rate high.

Basically, all the future cities will be specialist cities except for maybe 1 which will serve as a unit spammer to keep Justinian at bay. I'll head towards Lib in my next turnset, but I'm not sure if I'm going to get Optics first and find everyone else then Lib->Astronomy or just Lib->Nationalism and start a rampage right away. Will decide during the next set.

Capital:

Northern 3 Cities:

Southern 3 Cities:

Tech Situation:

Cities:

 

[Ric]

Monarch normal - 25AD (no huts/ no events)

Spoiler :

SIP - tech path: agr - bronze - wheel - mysticism - fishing - sailing - masonry - animal husbandry - writing - pottery - metal casting - mathematics - currency(researching)

Recap so far: Blocked off mansa so I could settle my new cities whenever I want. Build the great lighthouse and colossus in my capitol.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

1AD to really late 1914 victory

Spoiler :

I really messed this one up. I could have had a much much earlier victory but got really sloppy on the culture victory (still kinda new to culture vics).

Settled the GP Farm, northern peninsula specialist, and Maoi statues cities that were marked off in my previous post. Got CS, traded a few techs with Mansa for construction and HBR. Really, should have gone for a rush at that point with good production and phants. But I had my eye on a culture victory using the capital, commerce city to the east, and GP farm cities. Used stored GS for Philosophy, headed towards Music (for GA and early access to Sistine Chapel). But instead of focusing on spreading the 3 religions I had (thanks to founding confu from early strong econ and taoism from the bulb) and whipping out the temples in 9 of the cities, I started teching Machinery / Optics and building some units for protection against Justinian (who never attacked me all game despite his rather large military advantage).

Another mistake was using my GA from music for a golden age (DERP!) and then switching into Caste Sys, Pacif, Bureaucracy and spamming Scientists(!!). I must have been quite tired last night. Should have used a scientist for the golden age AFTER whipping out the temples & building the cathedrals and Sistine. Then, caste sys/pacifism spamming artists for settling in the weaker 2 culture cities.

Really nothing much of importance to mention after that. Had a defense pact with Mansa and Joao so I got into a war with Izzy with Toku as her vassal. Killed 9 of toku's soldiers that landed near GP farm. Got peace fairly cheap after that. Ended up partially starving the last city to try and squeeze out another GA (due to my horrible handling of great people once I decided on a culture victory). Basically, it was a bunch of enter button-mashing to victory. A really sloppy and late culture victory. Lesson learned. I'm a little too embarrassed to post a bunch of screen shots of this horror show of a victory. But I'll post the victory screen and post-victory save.


View attachment Bad Freddy Culture Vic.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Teoes]

Monarch, marathon, no huts/events/diplo cheese.

1512AD conquest for my second-earliest win date and second highest score. I can see why Freddy is a popular leader. On a food-heavy map like this I was drowning in GPs *cough* and didn't even bother building the NE *cough*

Spoiler :

Doesn't this map/leader combo yell GLH trade-route/specialist economy?

I beelined the GLH and crammed 9 cities in the Southern tip of the continent; if anything, MM blocked me off. Mattered not. Teched away, got the GA from Music, founded Confu/Tao whilst on the lib path. Really late on I saw the Oracle still hadn't been taken so figured I could have a shot. Slow-built it (no chops/whips) in c20 turns and got CS for my troubles. It was started or completed in 380BC or something like that, I don't remember.

Teched Nationalism & Gunpowder, 1x bulb into Lib and got it with no competition. From this point on, my core Germanic cities built Cuirs/Cavs almost non-stop until victory. Took MM's core cities then capped him; built some more troops and then went to work on Justin's sprawling land. Took his core, sued for peace to regroup/heal then pushed North to the ex-jungle lands. Capped him when he had naught but tundra left.

After that it was even more simple. Heal up & regroup, war, cap, gift cities back; repeat. WK -> Joao -> Toku -> Isa.

I was the only one to war the whole game. Everyone else was getting along until I turned up! Isa & Toku were incredibly backward. Toku was teching Metal Casting when I dumped 50 cavalry on his shores.. Isa was a bit more advanced but had no copper or iron.

Thanks for the map, it was good fun. Would it be considered an easy one for Monarch level? I'm wondering how many more victories (perhaps more importantly, losses) to get under my belt before trying Emperor.

 

[Bockwurst]

Will play this on IMM. Start agri -> BW, than maybe fishing. We'll see.

 

[ecuwins]

Would it be considered an easy one for Monarch level?

Spoiler :

Yes. Playing on Emperor/Normal and doing dumb stuff like forgetting to switch civics, overlooking the fact that I can now chop jungle because I traded for IW, ect...

@ 1300AD 18 cities: 15 nice and 3 resource grabbing junk. Plus three more nice ones in the next 4-5 turns, then a vassal(Mansa).

 

[Ric]

25 AD to 1800AD Conquest

Spoiler :

Recap: teched to cuirs and stomped Mansa out of existance. Continued my cuir assault on justinian after having gotten Comunism for state property and kremlin whipping as a nice bonus. After that my tech path was to rifling and biology.
After having vassaled Justinian and putting my troops in place to assault Wang Kong. Joao and Wang Kong both peace vassaled to me. This just left an easy mop up off Isabella and Tokugawa with cavalry and cuirs.

My thoughts on this map: lots of food, land available combined with the insanely powerfull great lighthouse on this map made it easy. Should have played on a higher difficulty then monarch.