Notes on OCC in BTS

[prestermatt]

about Heroic Epic/West Point/limited national wonders ... remember that great generals can give you half of HE in a military academy. they can give you half of west point by settling (and can do that more than once). i'd love to be able to take ironworks/west point and skip HE for the mil academy. but HE comes so early and is really helpful then, since you don't have a factory and oodles of settled great people /sigh.

I don't think HE is really worth it in an OCC. At least the way I play, I'm usually focused on building up my city than trying to fight early wars. By the late game, you should be able to build any unit in 1 turn anyway, so it's pretty much wasted. Plus, it gives you artists.

 

[Nishdog]

I'm playing an OCC now. I'm now thinking Globe before Heroic Epic if you've got enough metals in your city. You can crank out units quickly enough without Heroic Epic, and Globe really helps out if you are able to develop a large city to crank out specialists/Great People.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

Once you have globe though you also have a theatre and can use the culture slider for happiness. All your research by then probably comes from settled great people since you won't be building cottages and probably only have two trade routes.

 

[Phrederick]

Once you have globe though you also have a theatre and can use the culture slider for happiness. All your research by then probably comes from settled great people since you won't be building cottages and probably only have two trade routes.

That's a good point. Now that there's a max five national wonders, instead of spending a slot on a GT, you can use the cultural slider and get something like +25 happy for 100% culture, if you have a theatre and colisseum. Even 40% would get you +10 happy, which should be sufficient.

 

[prestermatt]

That's a good point. Now that there's a max five national wonders, instead of spending a slot on a GT, you can use the cultural slider and get something like +25 happy for 100% culture, if you have a theatre and colisseum. Even 40% would get you +10 happy, which should be sufficient.

Are you sure you've got your numbers correct? Doesn't the theater give +1 happy per 10% and the colisseum +1 per 20%? That's only +15 happiness for the whole 100%.

 

[Bhruic]

Once you have globe though you also have a theatre and can use the culture slider for happiness. All your research by then probably comes from settled great people since you won't be building cottages and probably only have two trade routes.

That really only works until the UN is built. At that point, you're going to be defying resolutions like mad (at least I have been), and if you don't have the Globe, your unhappiness will shoot through the roof.

Bh

 

[Welnic]

So which national wonders do you need? This has become an issue in BTS since you can only build 5 now. Some are pretty easy to dismiss, some you will probably always build, and then there are some that depend on your situation.

...

Content on which national wonders added to second post. Hit the thingy. ^

 

[Nishdog]

As for the empire I'm liking for OCC, Rome seems to fit me best. I like the UU for some early toughness. And I love the +25% GPP from Forums

As for the leader, I've cheated for the purposes of OCC and changed Bismark to Industrial/Philosophical and have him lead Rome.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

That really only works until the UN is built. At that point, you're going to be defying resolutions like mad (at least I have been), and if you don't have the Globe, your unhappiness will shoot through the roof.

Bh

Which ones would you defy? You want to stay in Representation as the main priority. So you would have to defy a democracy switch.

Caste System is probably moot by this point as you would have enough buildings. And your production doesn't need slavery. So Emancipation is OK.

Environmentalism is the best economic civic for you - thats extra happiness to with saved forests. So thats OK.

Free Religion is possibly painful if you have counted on OR/Theocracy, but by this point in the game you should have very high production anyway and hopefully some great generals.

Free Speech doesn't help you much. It might be worth defying if you don't have too much unhappiness. Bureaucracy is pretty good for hammer bonuses and worth keeping as long as you can.

What is the maximum unhappiness you can get from defying the UN? With the AP it seemed to be around +15 - I think it resets when the AP leader is chosen. I can't remember how many votes before a new leader is chosen, but I think its around 5 or 6 - so maybe up to +30 unhappy. A 100% culture slider with theatre + colosseum + broadcast tower can probably cope with that and I doubt you would have to defy every resolution.

 

[Bhruic]

Generally I prefer Representation/Caste System/Environmentalism/Bureaucracy/Pacifism. So of those, only Environmentalism is going to be voted for. I had 20 unhappiness before I built the Globe, and that was the max I could handle - even with 100% Culture and 16 preserved forests + happiness resources. Any more and I'd have started getting unhappy citizens. I suppose I could have tried trading for more happiness resources, but at that point it seemed like a much safer/easier option to simply build the Globe.

Everyone else's mileage may vary.

Bh

 

[Welnic]

When I was playing and I defied a couple of UN resolutions my unhappiness didn't get any higher with the second one. It might have been because more than half of the people voting defied the second one.

 

[Bhruic]

You only get unhappiness if the vote passed and you defied it. If the vote fails and you defied it, there's no penalty.

Bh

 

[Larklight]

What about the effects of espionage? I found my enemies spammed spies and I'd catch two a turn- or catch one, and lose a factory

 

[petey]

I think that Globe Theatre and National Park are musts. With no unhappiness and unhealthiness to worry about, you can grow as much as you want. Keeping the forsts for the National Park means that you chop less in the beginning, which could hurt the early Wonder race, though. It would also mean you can build an Industrial Park for the free Engineer without having to worry about the health effects. Oxford University is similarly a no-brainer.

If you get Pyramids (may be hard without the chopping), then Financial doesn't matter so much, since you're better off building Farms and running specialists under Representation than developing cottages. I think that the best combination would be to use unrestricted leaders and play as Ghandi of the Romans to get the Philosophical and the Forums, and that means that National Epic isn't as much use.

If you're on a coast, then Moai Statues are great, because then you get hammers from all those otherwise mainly useless water tiles. Ironworks gets nerfed by the National Park, but if you have Iron, you still get the 50% bonus from that and if you built Pyramids, you probably have a bunch of settled Great Engineer by that point, so it's still a major boost. Heroic Epic can be duplicated by a Great General, so there's not as much use for it.

So, if I'm on a coast and have Iron, my five would be:

Globe Theatre
National Park
Oxford University
Moai Statues
Ironworks

The last two I'd switch out for National and Heroic Epics if I can't use them as all the rest aren't worth a slot.

 

[cripp7]

What about the effects of espionage? I found my enemies spammed spies and I'd catch two a turn- or catch one, and lose a factory

I found all my OCC games. I run, 90% science and 10% espionage. I always run some kind of espionage slider to build up EP points. Sometimes switching to 100%. When I need to steal techs that I don't have researched yet. I had put a post on here about an OCC EE kind of game, but I have not received any posts yet.
Cripp

 

[popejubal]

And don't forget that Imperialistic + Great Wall = x4 Great General points. Imperialistic still sucks in an OCC, but not quite as much if you build the Great Wall.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

My conclusion after playing a couple is that the best combo is:

Ironworks
Oxford
National Epic
Globe Theatre
National Park

Saving forests is good for health early on and the extra specialists with national park is awesome. Each forest effectively becomes an instant grassland farm with associated specialist plus you get the production of the forest and extra commerce if you run environmentalism (and why wouldn't you?).

HE isn't much use because you will quickly get to the point of building one unit every turn.

The biggest problem I've found with OCC in BTS is AI culture wins. I had to turn culture off to score a OCC win on Quick/Emperor. If a distant AI is going for culture it may be very hard to stop.

 

[Game_Addy]

I've played a few 0CC games(though got bored midway through, and started a new game), but I almost always use:

India(Ghandi; Philosophical/spiritual)
Representation/Bureaucracy/Caste System/(haven't used Economic Civics a lot, though I did/do like State Property)/Free Religion(or Pacifism. But usually FR)

They were usually on Prince or Noble difficulty or so(only got civ IV to work this month. Normally, if stone is within reach, grab it, and get Great Wall(G. Spy in BTS/no barbs to worry about), otherwise, straight to Pyramids(switching to Rep to help me grow to about 7-12 or so when all is said/done). Crack Workers(UU) help a lot with settling the surrounding land. Next wonder I'd get(that I can remember teching to...this is a lot easier with a civilopedia) would be the one that enables all religious civics, which goes faster with Gold. This is to keep me at peace with all/most of the civs, and by then, I'm running a SE, with a minor in EE to regain any desired techs I'll need to have for later.

Here's my current game:
Initial

And about 2,000 words of content(conditions and start):

Spoiler :

 

[noto]

hey Bhruic, so what was it like playing with a philo/industrial leader? People on this forum have been talking about that trait combo and testing it out. Do tell!

 

[Larklight]

If they go for culture, you get the oportunity to do crazy attacks, to raise the offending cities and pray for peace beforer Rome falls.