Obtaining a Religion is far too important to Securing a late game win

It's completely over your head or you're pUrposefully trolling the thread DOWing England who won wouldn't have helped. In that situation I would have had to know that she was flipping Russia's cities through a spy and then attacked and took the converted cities faster than she reached predominant status. Your other solution is to kill any civilization that ever gets close to your civ but that's a bad solution as you're basically advocating only domination if you don't found a religion.
I thought the victory screens do a pretty good job of keeping track of each civ's progress for each victory type? I usually check on that every 5 turns at least, specifically to check for any uppity civs that are spreading their faith too much, or have grabbed too many tourists for my liking.
 
The one victory the AI seems to be pretty good at and people want to get rid of it or gimp it.
Thanks for making my point that founding a religion is essential to ensuring a victory on deity. If the only way the AI can win is through religion the easiest way to secure a victory is founding a religion.
 
Eh? Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but religious victory requires one's religion to be predominant in every major and minor civ, right? If you're in predominant status with England, surely you were at least predominant of yourself?

I guess in your case, given the low number of participants, if I didn't have a religion and a civ was trying to predominate me, I would be obligated to squish their missionaries and apostles on sight. If that civ successfully predominated me, I would be obligated to eradicate that civ completely from the session.
 
One way to stop a religious victory in situation where you are already converted to the winning side is to make a bunch of missionaries, run them to area where religious borders are and let the other sides apostles to kill them. That way they get more are and the winning religion will lose area.
 
One way to stop a religious victory in situation where you are already converted to the winning side is to make a bunch of missionaries, run them to area where religious borders are and let the other sides apostles to kill them. That way they get more are and the winning religion will lose area.
But... that just kind of redistributes the problem, doesn't it? Now you've basically done some king-making and another civ's religion is growing in power...
 
Eh? Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but religious victory requires one's religion to be predominant in every major and minor civ, right? If you're in predominant status with England, surely you were at least predominant of yourself?

I guess in your case, given the low number of participants, if I didn't have a religion and a civ was trying to predominate me, I would be obligated to squish their missionaries and apostles on sight. If that civ successfully predominated me, I would be obligated to eradicate that civ completely from the session.
i didn't have a religion
 
i didn't have a religion
Ah, ok. Then yeah with such a low participant count I would feel obligated to kill the civ that predominated me. I normally play on Standard size, which is 8 players, and the smallest size I've ever played on is Small, which is 6. Gives me more time to assess threats.
 
I don't think it's worth founding a religion on Deity just to prevent AI religious victory. Spending precious early hammers on religious infrastructure and wasting your first district slot on a holy site is a horrible way to start the game that will guarantee a much slower developing and weaker empire than you could have had. Instead, use your military to kill the religious units of any AI civ that tries to convert you. Although if you check the religious victory screen and it appears that the religion being spread to you is not very prominent, maybe you're safe allowing a conversion. Still, it's generally safer just to declare war and clear out the religious units. It's not like the AI's warrior carpets are going to do much damage to you in retaliation.

It's kind of a dumb system, but oh well.
 
I play almost exclusively on Deity Standard size maps (few early games on Immortal & Emperor) and the only time that a civ even came close to a religious victory was a game where I was going the domination route - Scythia had converted 5 of 7 civilizations (the 8th, Gandhi (who plays a heavy religion game and was their neighbor) I had killed in the early game) and I purposefully wiped them completely off the map to ensure that my later conquests didn't flip a civilization over to them by nature of the conquered civ going to 1 city or something. In fact, now that I think of it, the only reason they went up to 5 of 7 civilizations was because I knocked two civ's that had founded religions down to 2 cities or so. So it was my warmongering that indirectly lead them to a near-religion win. I've also never even built so much as a single holy site in any of my deity games, except ones where I was playtesting ways to found a religion against the deity AI's.

I'm sure given the right circumstances, there are other games where a civ could have gotten close, but I've had totally peaceful, no war Deity games where I won with culture or science that religion never got close. On island plates it's almost certainly improbable for the AI to win religion, Pangaea seems too packed in for a single civ to gain much ground (haven't seen more than 2-3 civ's converted), Fractal seems to be too terrain unfriendly for the civ's to get much religion spread (again most 2-3 cities), Inland Sea the civ's are too spread out and logistics are too complicated going through neighbors (have only seen 1-2 civs converted in this map), and Continents map seems the most likely for some AI to get close on religion (it was on continents that I had the game where 5 of 7 remaining civs got converted, and I had a few other games where it was 3-4 civ's of 8 converted). Likely the fact that on continents they can send apostles from any direction to the other continent and on their home continent they only have a couple civ's to compete with, so they can snowball a bit. Generally if you have 7-9 cities it's kind of tough for the AI to get any kind of religion into your territory. Most games I play I don't even get a majority religion in my civilization at all. Heck, I feel like I'm lucky to get one or two converted cities.

On a small or tiny map (which I've played on neither), I could see how it could be easier for a dominant religion to form and the AI to win that way, but the same can be said for cultural victory as well - or any victory because of less competition and smaller spaces with less cities to work with. Arguably the only victory that becomes harder on small and tiny maps is Science because as far as I know production costs remain the same.

If you wanted a peaceful way to absolutely prevent an AI from spreading their religion to you, without going to war and without founding a religion, you could always just build 6 scouts (6 turns) and have them sleep on the adjacent tiles around a couple of your cities (that'd be the lazy way, most of the time you could just move them around to block the apostle from moving). An even better way would be for them to be actual military units (to have your military defense boosted) in the same formation. This would prevent apostles and missionaries and any other enemy unit from moving next to your city to spread religion. Even another way would be (an emergency situation, because it'd be expensive), if you had a city with any other religion at all, you could build an apostle, launch an inquisition and just have one or two inquisitors to eliminate religion spread in the majority of your cities.

I hate to say it, but it sounds like if religion is a true threat to you losing the game on higher difficulty levels, even if you're not going on the offensive and conquering anybody, it's probably your tactical error that caused the victory. I don't mean that trolly at all or as an insult, so please don't take it that way. I'm just saying that, usually it's difficult for the AI to win anything, even at higher difficulties because they simply don't handle districts well and they don't handle war well, they don't even handle efficient religion spreading well other than carpet of doom, the only cases where they win is if their built-in bonuses let them run away from the game (e.g. you didn't built enough infrastructure (or conquer enough infrastructure) to make up for the difference.
 
I do find the limit of six religions is becoming more problematic on bigger maps. It forces me to focus on what I regard as a triviality (religious districts, faith etc). When you're up against ten civs and want to get a religion up and running, well, "if you snooze you lose" seems appropriate.

Even disabling Religious victory the AI spams those units and they get in the way a lot of the time. That annoys me.
 
Whatever the other arguments, as a devout atheist i would like it if civ included atheist mechanics to defend against religion in late game even if you have zero faith. Make it cause every religious civ to hate your guts or whatever, but let me be atheist and let me defend myself and my people against religious nutcases wanting to screw with our minds :)
 
Whatever the other arguments, as a devout atheist i would like it if civ included atheist mechanics to defend against religion in late game even if you have zero faith. Make it cause every religious civ to hate your guts or whatever, but let me be atheist and let me defend myself and my people against religious nutcases wanting to screw with our minds :)

I do think it would be good--not so much for ideological reasons, but for gameplay ones--if the game gave non-religious Civs peaceful ways to defend against religious conversion. People have suggested some kind of "philosopher" unit that can partake in religious combat and does not require a religion. I think that would help make the religious game a little more complete.
 
Thanks for making my point that founding a religion is essential to ensuring a victory on deity. If the only way the AI can win is through religion the easiest way to secure a victory is founding a religion.

lolwut? Most players skip religion on Deity all together and just get it accidental from conquering somebody else. Religion is such a non-factor on any difficulty level. All you have to do to not get spammed is literally DOW somebody or surround your citys with units so they cant get close enough to convert. I think the problem is with you, not some game flaw.
 
How about a Christopher Hitchens great person who sets all religious beliefs back to zero for cities within a certain radius? Or destroys all religious units within a certain number of tiles ? (Just an idea)
 
I usually skip obtaining a religion just because of the annoying religion lenses where you can't see tiles/roads when moving your apostles.
 
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Thanks for making my point that founding a religion is essential to ensuring a victory on deity. If the only way the AI can win is through religion the easiest way to secure a victory is founding a religion.

No.

Trying to compete with the AI on the one thing it can actually do reasonably well is NOT the easiest way to win.
 
Whatever the other arguments, as a devout atheist i would like it if civ included atheist mechanics to defend against religion in late game even if you have zero faith. Make it cause every religious civ to hate your guts or whatever, but let me be atheist and let me defend myself and my people against religious nutcases wanting to screw with our minds :)
If we were being realistic, then the establishment of religious freedom and modern style democracies should make later game religious victories nearly impossible.
 
No.

Trying to compete with the AI on the one thing it can actually do reasonably well is NOT the easiest way to win.
You don't have to compete, simply defend the only way the AI can win
 
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Whatever the other arguments, as a devout atheist i would like it if civ included atheist mechanics to defend against religion in late game even if you have zero faith. Make it cause every religious civ to hate your guts or whatever, but let me be atheist and let me defend myself and my people against religious nutcases wanting to screw with our minds :)

Couldn't you make a custom religion and call it "Atheist"? Then you can spread your own belief around the world. Make sure to take non-faith bonuses for your Pantheons, etc. Too bad you can't rename the religious districts, and temples.
 
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