OCC guide

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And on another note: Looks like very good stuff, Ali. I'm looking forward to studying that more in detail.
 
It asked me for a password, but when I clicked "cancel" it let me view the thread anyway. Well, if I get a chance I'll try to DL the thread....
 
This is a great idea you are doing, Ali. :goodjob:

Its been a long time (I think) since any major Civ II guide has been made. The Paulicy, and some of the OCC reference games at Apolyton (such as Sten Sture's 4 whales) are how I personally first learned OCC. Now there is even more knowledge about Civ II than when the Paulicy was written. What you are creating is certainly something that, when done, should not only be put into the War Academy, but also be formatted into a PDF for long term preservation. In future years, Civ 2 will remain an interesting and timeless game, and guides like this will be helpful.


Although I am not blessed with a great deal of time at the moment, I will add some comments as I'm able. As "exception" based constructive comments for suggested improvements, they are not meant as negativity, and its fine if you want to include them or disregard them, and I'll give a rationale for each comment. :)

The replies will be grouped by section, as you posted them. If in the quotes, the Boldface is the target.




Comments on the First Section:


I discovered CivFanatics website in 1992
This date is a typo, probably should be 2002 (?).



One City Challenge (OCC) is about winning a game of Civilization II (Civ2) with only one city.
Maybe add, "... by landing a Spaceship with only one city"

I don't think it was ever really popular at Apolyton, at least I dont know of discussions about it, but personally, I found that OCC Conquers were more fun (for lack of anything else, call them an "OCCC"), and in the early 2000's, downloaded and played some of their reference SS games as Conquer, though in general, I found that a SS will land for a given map sooner that a Conquer can occur. But the Paulicy was focused mostly on things that would achieve an earlier landing date, though a lot of factors were identical or similar in doing an OCC conquer.



I should also pay tribute here to avid OCC players at CivFanatics GOTM whom through their games and forum participation have contributed much to the overall experience and knowledge of OCC: ElephantU, TimTheEnchanter, and OldnSlow.
Historically, the foundation/original credits for most OCC development is to players from the late 1990's through about the 2001 time frame mostly at Apolyton. Many here at CivFanatics including myself (I had never even played Civ II when much of the early OCC work was completed) have benefited from OCC (full size, SS), OCC (Size 4, SS), OCC (Size 1, SS). Earliest SS landing dates were the fundamental objective in their comparison games. Players such as Samson, Solo, Scouse Gits, Smash, Sten Sture, and others I can't recall right now. At least one, Smash, was also a very active CivFanatics contributer and GOTMer in that time frame.



2. Reloading a saved game to change an unfavorable outcome is not allowed. The one exception to this rule is that you must save before tipping each hut and reload if you get an advanced tribe. You only need to do this if the hut is on plains or grassland, as the game never gives you an advanced tribe otherwise.
This is not the case. Samson originally made some research into a specific test case about 10 years ago regarding huts, and in that case he used for test, did not get results on other terrain. However, the sample was too small/limited, and extended testing by myself and others subsequent to that verified that people can (and have) obtained an advanced tribe on nearly every terrain type (except glacier). In certain circumstances, Forest, Jungle, and Swamp can be relatively common (in MGE; 2.42 which Samson used has not been similarly tested that I know of). The mechanics are not fully defined in closed form, but are repeatable. However, in many game circumstances, the odds of a swamp/jungle/forest AT are remote; but in the right combination of continent, villages on a given continent, and size of map/continent, game progress, and possibly difficulty level, the odds are no longer remote.

In any event, for OCC, a player should always save before every Hut entry, and if an AT results, simply reload and try again. :)



3. Acquiring a city whether through building, conquest, or bribery is not allowed. Razing cities is allowed. In my own games I have one exception to this rule which is not present in the original guide: you are allowed to conquer the capital of a rival who has launched a space ship that is going to beat yours. In the same turn and immediately following the conquest you should either remove your forces from the city if they have any movement points left or disband them if they do not. You may not sell any structure in the city. I have added this exception to add a little bit of extra excitement to those close cases and give the human player one final chance of changing the outcome of the game.
IMO, you should not add this exception (IMO)! If one has the military power to capture an enemy capital, then its trivial to raze an enemy capital in OCC esp. if you are prepared to do it. You need not make it an OCC** Guide, or an OCC ('most of the time') Guide. You can keep it pure OCC (with no exceptions) and then games played this guide can be used more directly in comparison results to OCC Landing games of 10 ad 12 years ago.



The essence of your overall strategy in OCC is to gain a significant tech advantage at the time you are ready to start the space race thus preventing your rivals from building a faster ship that beats yours.
It might be simpler to suggest that OCC comparison games are about achieving the earliest landing date possible (of course yours is expected to "win"). It does not really matter if an AI rival SS is faster than yours -- only that your SS still lands at the earliest possible date, and then other players compare their results on the same map :).
 
Comments on the "Site selection" section:



The first step is to do a Map Analysis...
This could also include determining the specials pattern in the game; then one can determine the location of all the huts, and all the 4-special locations, esp. when combined with black clicking. If playing an OCC variant (OCC size 4, or OCC size 1), then this can affect all other considerations, also.


2. Final shield output of your city is important during the space ship building phase. The ideal number of shields produced by your city after all terrain improvements (transformation, mining, railroad) and the addition of an offshore platform is 26. It is worth compromising a few food and arrows to try to reach this number. There will be a long discussion later as to why 26 is ideal and what the alternatives are.
Transformations can solve any terrain issues by late game. So the location is mostly about how the terrain will perform in the first third, and even the second third of the game. After that, players usually have time to make terrain into whatever their village needs.

The 26 base shields will necessarily refer to the full size OCC; there are alternatives like the Size 4 and size 1. For size 4, one should obtain 10 or 13 shields. For size 1, 5 or 7.

A limitation is what transformations cannot cannot achieve: rivers or ocean-land/land-ocean. Hence, these 2 factors can be a strong consideration for location, esp. if you need trade-producing shields (e.g., make a mined hill out of plain grassland in a river). Based on the OCC being played (e.g., size & goal), its good to compute the value of food (early through mid game if playing a full size city OCC) and of trade + shield output in the mid-game and late-game states (or after reaching the expected max city size).


4. Arrow specials (gold, wine, silk, … ) are preferable to food specials (wheat, oasis, fish, …) and shield specials (iron, peat, …).
A River in some or all of the Shield specials can make one site much more valuable. It can be worth it to take another turn or two to get more rivers in your city radius, even if not in specials :).


5. The best initial special is a whale. It gives you a rich mixture of arrows, food, and shields. It does not need any improvements and is not affected all that much by being in despotism (you only lose 1 arrow).
Comments: The whale is not always visible at first, if its 2 tiles offshore, knowing the specials pattern will tell you. Offshore, I do prefer a whale (even if it takes a trireme to discover it later on), than fish... knowing which you get might help determine if one site is preferable. A Pheasant in a river might be more valuable than a Whale; or even a peat in a river; it depends on the rests of the terrain in the city radius. If playing OCC size 1, then a gold mine and river forest/hill are an excellent choice. If playing size 4, then almost any 4-special is a good candidate, and you would probably not want less than a 3-special unless there was an exceptional river terrain.


6. Your overall goal is to get maximum arrows, then maximum food, and finally maximum shields.
Comments: It can depend; for Early republic, you can grow to size 7 with just a Harbor; but in all events, you need the food to reach full size. Compute the food for early game, and determine what Republic needs (considering the normal unhappiness at each village size) to get to the key early game 8, 12, and 20 sizes. Then, you want to have most of the terrain squares to be able to generate trade without Engineer work. For example, if there are say 6 hills, then this could be a food and will be a trade problem for many turns in the Pr-refrigeration, Pre-engineer time frame. Engineers can remove the hills, but the mid game would likely suffer before that could be done.


7. Other than the specials you want as much plains, grassland, ocean, and forest in your city radius as possible. 1-2 hills are ok even desirable. Jungle, swamp, and desert are also ok in reasonable numbers. Tundra and excessive hills are bad, mountains and glaciers are the worst.
Comments: Hills over forest, because of the shield output. Settler/eng will have time to mine, and faced with a forest or hill to occupy a square, take a hill over a forest. Forests would be chopped to Plains soon, and hence prefer plains instead forest to save the settler 5 turns and have the trade and shield output for early Republic growth. One or two forests would be OK, for very early shield multiple adjustments, but a settler to mine a hill if the tradeoff were available is better most of the time.



Barbarians: I consider this also, though most other things in your list are more important. My goal is to keep open land, fence off AI, and provide fertile barbarian "farms". Barbarians are generated in predictable ways, and properly used, can often generate significant early game gold by making barbarian farm traps. A key to this is to have certain road segments for your units to run out of the village, or fortresses/hiding areas, and nail the leader for 150g, especially if the leader separates from his escort before the escort is killed. Using difficult terrain can stop the escape of leaders when their escort(s) die, and road segments can allow your troops to zip out of a hilltop or mountain and return with ease. For full size OCC, making defense to keep barbarians out of your village terrain can be helped by the site selection.




Its very good that you made this section ("Site selection" ) of your new guide, and I think listing the considerations numerically helps people to know how to choose good initial locations. The choices made at the very beginning be understated, and does take a lot of thought and looking into the future regarding how one intends to develop the game (e.g., growth bursts). SlowThinker used to say that he spent a lot of time even in MP thinking about initial locations; for OCC, since there is no later opportunity with other villages, the initial decisions can drastically affect the ultimate landing date. In many of the Apolyton comparison games, they simply set up the map so a player could move a settler one or 2 obvious tiles, found, and then plod through OCC procedure to SS landing. The only question was what the narrow window of landing dates would eventually result when everyone was done. To do OCC well on Random maps often requires some careful thinking along the lines of this section you wrote :).
 
It won't require a password if you disable Javascript for apolyton.net. It came up when I marked apolyton.net as trusted in the NoScript add-on for Firefox: did not came up when I revoked the permission and before I marked it as trusted in the first place.
Thank you Jokemaster, that did the trick.

It asked me for a password, but when I clicked "cancel" it let me view the thread anyway.
Now, that I have disabled Javascript it does behave this way; before cancel would not do anything.
 
Thoughts on the "Ancient era" Section:


There will not be any barbarian uprisings in the early game...
Turn 16, they will begin. And from the sea, a ship will be created, with a diplomat ("Leader") and 2 units. You may not see it, however. No uprising will occur within 3 tiles of a village... in early game, (with little terrain development) this should allow reaction time.

For example, if you have at least 50 gold, and a barb is about to enter your empty size 1 village, it will offer a chance for you to pay 50g; if you have over 100g, then it will ask for half your treasury. If you cannot meet the the minimum, then the barbarian will take the village. Defense with 0-shield support diplomats can suffice.

Knowing barbarians can allow a early lander (OCC or otherwise) to get by with very few, if any, supported military units, esp. going into republic.


Colossus is your other wonder goal for early years.
This wonder is not replaceable at any price, since its effects cannot be duplicated. Normally, if confronted with a choice of Marco or Colossus, one should take Colossus. Map size, difficulty, civ layouts, continents... many variables affect the judgment here, and early exploration often makes it more clear which to complete first. If conducting a specialized OCC, such as size 4 and especially size 1, then Marco Polo is the priority. If a full size OCC is being attempted, then likely the priority is Colossus.



Improving Terrain: the key here is to improve what is used first, and then to ensure that adequate food exists to both support growth, as well as support Elvis/Taxmen/Scientists (ideally without interruption) as necessary to max out size 8, 12, and 20. Running short on food because you must take a worker off the terrain to control unhappiness in a growth cycle means that more food was needed (e.g., irrigation, forest removal). After refrigeration, this should not be an issue anymore, though science output will increase with more food.

Another shield consideration are multiples. In early game, 5, 7 and 10 are key multiples of shield output (Esp. with IPRB), and ability to achieve these can be influenced by tasks given to settler(s), such as mining and deforestation.


Tech guiding
This is the most counter-intuitive and important part of the OCC, for new players. No longer should a player think of the human fighting tooth and nail against the rest of the world. The Human is like the conductor of an orchestra. The members are the world's civilizations, and in a "perfect" world, no technology would be researched more than once, worldwide. The Human would orchestrate the technology distributions to ensure that when a new advance is gained by one civilization, that it is obtained and distributed at least to any civilization which is researching that advance, so the beakers which have been generated by the World (e.g., by that civ) are applied to a new research.

The ability of the Human "conductor" to orchestrate this, and play the AI like a virtuoso violin, can achieve startling results, through mid-game especially. In later game, the human can effectively cut off an AI from making any futher advances by gifting many techs (and holding certain key techs back, based on the game state). The cost of AI research will increase greatly, and if the game is moving fast, its not uncommon that the AI you flood with tech will not discover anything new again.

Even with MPE, a human can make and keep an Alliance, if chosen carefully, and that alliance can result in much gold during diplomacy.

The choice and exchange of technology should be carefully considered, esp. if aiming for a given Oedo year to make it happen. The hidden technologies should be considered, and one way is to either use SlowThinker's technology planner or use pencil and paper (with Oedo's tech grouping discovery) to anticipate the effect of gaining advances, versus what is available to choose....
Spoiler :
Oedo's tech groupings:

2 Advanced Flight,
0 Alphabet,
1 Amphibious Warfare,
2 Astronomy,
0 Atomic Theory,
1 Automobile,
2 Banking,
0 Bridge Building,
1 Bronze Working,
2 Ceremonial Burial,
0 Chemistry,
1 Chivalry,
2 Code of Laws,
0 Combined Arms,
1 Combustion,
2 Communism,
0 Computers,
1 Conscription,
2 Construction,
0 The Corporation,
1 Currency,
2 Democracy,
0 Economics,
1 Electricity,
2 Electronics,
0 Engineering,
1 Environmentalism,
2 Espionage,
0 Explosives,
1 Feudalism,
2 Flight,
0 Fundamentalism,
1 Fusion Power,
2 Genetic Engineering,
0 Guerrilla Warfare,
1 Gunpowder,
2 Horseback Riding,
0 Industrialization,
1 Invention,
2 Iron Working,
0 Labor Union,
1 The Laser,
2 Leadership,
0 Literacy,
1 Machine Tools,
2 Magnetism,
0 Map Making,
1 Masonry,
2 Mass Production,
0 Mathematics,
1 Medicine,
2 Metallurgy,
0 Miniaturization,
1 Mobile Warfare,
2 Monarchy,
0 Monotheism,
1 Mysticism,
2 Navigation,
0 Nuclear Fission,
1 Nuclear Power,
2 Philosophy,
0 Physics,
1 Plastics,
2 Plumbing, (count, but disregard this)
0 Polytheism,
1 Pottery,
2 Radio,
0 Railroad,
1 Recycling,
2 Refining,
0 Refrigeration,
1 The Republic,
2 Robotics,
0 Rocketry,
1 Sanitation,
2 Seafaring,
0 Space Flight,
1 Stealth,
2 Steam Engine,
0 Steel,
1 Superconductor,
2 Tactics,
0 Theology,
1 Theory of Gravity,
2 Trade,
0 University,
1 Warrior Code,
2 The Wheel,
0 Writing



I use in diplomacy:

Code:
Attitude      
 
Worshipful    
Enthusiastic   
Cordial        
Receptive      
Neutral       
Uncooperative  
Icy            
Hostile        
Enraged 


Reputation

Spotless
Excellent
Honorable
Questionable
Dishonorable
Poor
Despicable
Atrocious


Power       -  Key Civ  

Pathetic   -  White 
Weak       -   Green    
Inadequate -  Dk Blue 
Moderate   -  Yellow   
Strong     -  Lt Blue   
Mighty     -  Orange    
Supreme    -  Purple
 
This is a great idea you are doing, Ali. :goodjob:
Thank you for your praise and for your comments.
This date is a typo, probably should be 2002 (?).
Indeed it is. Thanks for catching it.
Maybe add, "... by landing a Spaceship with only one city"
Right after that comment I do elaborate: "There are two ways any game in Civ2 can be won: conquest or being the first to land a space ship. Almost all OCC games are won with a space ship. The strategies and tactics needed for the two approaches are vastly different. This article explains the strategies and tactics needed to win with a space ship."
Historically, the foundation/original credits for most OCC development is to players from the late 1990's through about the 2001 time frame mostly at Apolyton. Many here at CivFanatics including myself (I had never even played Civ II when much of the early OCC work was completed) have benefited from OCC (full size, SS), OCC (Size 4, SS), OCC (Size 1, SS). Earliest SS landing dates were the fundamental objective in their comparison games. Players such as Samson, Solo, Scouse Gits, Smash, Sten Sture, and others I can't recall right now. At least one, Smash, was also a very active CivFanatics contributer and GOTMer in that time frame.
Thanks. I will add these. I was never part of Apolyton. Of the people you named I only know Solo because of his early landing guide, and Smash who was a player here.

This is not the case. People can (and I have) obtained an advanced tribe on nearly every terrain type (except glacier), including Forest and Swamp as relatively common. The mechanics are not fully defined in closed form, but are repeatable. However, in many game circumstances, the odds of a swamp/jungle/forest AT are remote; but in the right combination of continent, villages on a given continent, and size of map/continent, game progress, and possibly difficulty level, the odds are no longer remote.
Thanks for the clarification. I have personally do not recall seeing an advanced tribe on such tiles in perhaps more than 100 games of Civ2 and I remember reading somewhere comments to that effect from other players as well which led me to this conclusion.

IMO, you should not add this exception (IMO)! If one has the military power to capture an enemy capital, then its trivial to raze an enemy capital in OCC esp.
I am a little puzzled about your first point. The only way I know of razing a city that is protected by city walls (at higher levels of the game, the AI always protects their capital with city walls) is to repeatedly poison the water supply. This approach will not work in the circumstance that I have in mind simply due to the number of spies needed to accomplish the task and the limited time available. Let me explain the circumstance I have in mind:
You share your homeland with several rivals who gang up on you as you start to build your ship. They start attacking you and sooner or later they thin your defenses down. You have to halt SS building and defend yourself. Limited by your ability to produce only one unit per turn this lasts for quite a few turns. By the time you finish your SS or soon afterwards, one of your rivals launches a ship that is faster and is going to beat yours. Now, you have only one chance left. To take that rival's capital. Typically the rival has many cities and a much larger army. Your only hope is a blitzkrieg.

This situation has happened to me more than once playing on earth. I have played many OCC games, and in my view playing on earth (particularly in Europe, Middle East, and North Africa) is something else.

You need not make it an OCC** Guide, or an OCC ('most of the time') Guide. You can keep it pure OCC, with no exceptions, and then games played this guide can be used more directly in comparison results to OCC Landing games of 10 ad 12 years ago.
If you stretch the definition of OCC just a tad to mean you can never have more than one city between turns, then it is still OCC if you capture a city and lose it the next turn which in this circumstance always happens. I agree with your point that this deviates from historical results, but in my opinion it is a worthwhile deviation.
It might be simpler to suggest that OCC comparison games are about acheiving the earliest landing date possible. It does not really matter what else a player does, but that landing date (which of course implies winning the game) is the comparison factor.
Here we have a difference of opinion which partly explains my deviation by allowing the capture of enemy capital as well. I find the quest for the earliest possible OCC lading date rather uninteresting because so much depends on the map and the location of your rivals. I have played close to 20 earth OCC games; all with historical starting locations. My landing date has varied from 1830s to early 1900s and I have lost the game more than once. Here is a simple example: Play as Celts on earth. Whether or not the English are in the game makes a huge difference.

To me, a comparison game only makes sense if it is the exact same setting.

This could also include determining the specials pattern in the game; then you are able to determine the location of all the huts, ...
Good points. There is a whole thread on Map Analysis here at CFC which the guide would include as an appendix. All of these issues are covered in detail there.

Transformations can solve any terrain issues for late game. So the location is mostly about how the terrain will perform in the first third, and even the second third of the game. After that, you usually have time to make it into whatever you want.
I disagree. The keyword here is "you have time". Engineer transformations are very time consuming and you may not have time. To me the challenge of OCC is not about getting the earliest possible landing date against a bunch of hapless rivals which become irrelevant later in the game; the challenge is to win the space race against rivals which have ganged up against you and have the military might to take you out.
What transformations cannot achieve are rivers, and changing ocean-land/land-ocean. Hence, these 2 factors can be a strong consideration for location ... Again, a River in some or all of the Shield specials can make one site more valuable. It can be worth it to take another turn or two to get more rivers in you city radius, even if not in specials :).
Good points. These should be emphasized.
A Pheasant in a river might be more valuable than a Whale
No it is not. In despotism you get 2 food, 2 shields, and 1 arrow from the pheasant on river and 2 food, 2 shields, and 2 arrows from the whale so the whale wins. In Monarchy the pheasant will get an additional food and the whale an additional arrow. Which is more valuable depends on your other circumstances. At the start (and in despotism), the whale wins over all specials.
Comments: I much prefer hills over forest, because of the shield output. Your settler/eng will have time to mine, and faced with a forest or hill to occupy a square, I'd take a hill.
I disagree. I prefer forests to hills and here is my rationale:
1. Forests give you 2 shields right away. Hills give you none before mining. It takes a settler 10 turns to mine a hill.
2. In mid and late game when I may not need the shields as much any more I can irrigate forest to plains in a mere 5 settler turns. It takes an engineer to transform a hill and it takes 20 engineer turns which is 8 times as much.
And what do I get for these two significant disadvantages? 1 extra shield. It is simply not worth it.
 
Thoughts on the "Ancient era" Section:
Thanks for your valuable comments. I really appreciate it.
Turn 16, they will begin. And from the sea, a ship will be created, with a diplomat ("Leader") and 2 units. You may not see it, however. No uprising will occur within 3 tiles of a village... in early game, (with little terrain development) this should allow reaction time...
Good clarification. I shall add this.
Another shield consideration are multiples. In early game, 5, 7 and 10 are key multiples of shield output (Esp. with IPRB), and ability to achieve these can be influenced by tasks given to settler(s), such as mining and deforestation.
Good point. This should be emphasized.
This is the most counter-intuitive and important part of the OCC, for new players. No longer should a player think of the human fighting tooth and nail against the rest of the world. The Human is like the conductor of an orchestra. The members are the world's civilizations ...
Nice way to put it. Tech guiding is indeed like conducting an orchestra.
The hidden technologies should be considered, and one way is to either use SlowThinker's technology planner or use pencil and paper (with Oedo's tech grouping discovery) to anticipate the effect of gaining advances, versus what is available to choose....
This is covered in detail in Solo's Early Landing Guide. This and many other pieces of the guide (such as Key civ) which are directly applicable to OCC will be copied into an Appendix of my OCC guide. I deliberately left the Appendix out of this thread for space considerations.
 
Early Medieval era

Your next production goals are 3 caravans for trade (plus possibly a boat to carry them), Copernicus, Shakespeare, Library, Marketplace, and Aqueduct (not necessarily in that order).
OCC 20: Col, MP, Cop, Sha, Library, Marketplace, and Aqueduct
OCC 4: Colossus, MP, Cop, Library, Marketplace
OCC 1: MP, Copernicus, Library



Your number two tech goal is Republic. You want to switch to Republic as soon as possible. After that your tech goals are what you need to make the aforementioned production goals possible.
Often, but it depends. Sometimes terrain or AI opportunities for that map give more net results in Monarchy for a while. If the Human is able to conduct the orchestra with great effect, and this is in large part affected by the continents, the summation of the attack values of one's Hut units, the terrain surrounding the AI start locations.. then you might even get the AI to research Republic for you, and when you are ready to grow to size 8 (and hopefully 12 in quick order), you can gain the tech in concert with an Oedo year. If researching Republic, then micromanage science to just achieve the necessary beakers, and convert the rest to tax income the year before an Oedo year, and then no empire (LOL, one city) loss output occurs.

The same idea applies to Democracy, if that form of government is used.



If you have achieved Mysticism, build a temple when Shakespeare is far away. Cathedral and Coliseum should not be considered. Focus your efforts on Shakespeare instead. If you do build a temple, remember to sell it the turn before Shakespeare is completed.
That can depend on how one's supported military units are deployed under a representative government that is expected to grow via celebrations.

One common situation: While Shakespeare will prevent any unhappy citizens, its effects are applied in Line 5 of Happiness computation. Temples/Col/Cath is applied in Line 3, and unhappiness due to units away is line 4. If unhappiness is unchecked by Temple/C/C in line 3, it will carry through to Line 4, and this can eradicate a light blue "happy" citizen, and thus prevent achieving the 50% or more "happy" citizens necessary to celebrate, and thus grow.

Although it is a common misconception that Shakespeare and Content improvements accomplish their functions in the same way, they do not. This is most pronounced in a small empire (such as an OCC) in a smaller village with Units away and no T/C/C; maintaining units away and keeping the celebration with minimal Luxury slider settings/minimum Lux workers, can be solved cheaply with Temples. If more units away must be supported, or if in Democracy, Cathedrals and Colosseum are much more expensive long term but can do the job. Unless this considered, then either growth must be delayed, or units which are cannot be "housed" must be disbanded.

In OCC, temples will not be "free", since its not effective to build the Adam Smith wonder for one village. But for the first 2 or 3 OCC early game growth cycles, a Temple can help keep those happy citizens.

Its worth noting that in a Republic, a Police Station (which would of course be a later game option) can completely eliminate the unhappiness penalty due to units away, and thus eliminate the need for content improvements to keep the happy citizens with Shakespeare.

Finally, in large population villages, there is greater opportunity to support "unhappy" due to away (due to more content citizens on Line 4), although more and more content structures (temple, col, cath) will be required to nail the red faces once the limit of half the village population is reached. If a Line 4 redman turns a light blue to dark blue, then Line 5 Shakespeare will not restore the Happy Citizen. That means you need a tem/col/cath, or a larger base village size, to keep that Happy Citizen on line 4. In OCC, its not practical to make Hanging Gardens or Cure for Cancer to gain Line 5 Happy Citizens.

Note: the amount of Luxuries that can be applied to make Happy Citizens is capped by village size; no amount of increased Lux can make more happy dudes when the cap is hit. Two Lux will make a Redface content, and two more will make a dark blue into light bue (Content to Happy). The empire will not be large enough (in OCC) to take have other effects come into play based on government type, cities owned, or citizen total.



Another thing to do when achieving Republic is to disband some of your supported units. You should only need one unit for defense at this point
That actually depends on the strategy. For many games, no supported units are necessary by this point at all, and sometimes the exception is if there is a homebuilt (or supported, bribed trireme). No homebuilt military land units are usually necessary, unless there is a serious warlike AI threat. Until the endgame, AI can usually be contained by a caravan in a fortress on a good defense terrain like a hill. In early game, a bribed base-2 unit can be obtained from the AI or Barbarians (usually a 61g barbarian archer).



Finally, build a diplomat if you have not already. You never know when a good bribery situation may come by.
More than one can be useful for an aggressive OCC strategy. A diplomat can often go out into the field and not only return a stream of NON units, but make a significant profit on barbarian leaders. This depends partly on terrain, and how the terrain is managed. Exploiting civilized terrain gaps is often quite effective.



Democracy is your final tech goal in this era. You need to switch to it to celebrate to sizes above 21, but it is only useful if you have no units away from home and no triremes/caravels.
This is inaccurate, if you have a Temple, Colosseum, and/or Cathedral with Shakespeare (and in the right circumstances with excess food, even Shakespeare is not always necessary). You can have multiple units away from home, if you match the number content effects to the unhappiness caused by units away from home, and the village size.



If you have a lot of gold, you can buy a warrior from zero for 50 gold and then incrementally rush buy to your production goal. For example, with 125 gold you can build a caravan in one turn.
Clarification: That is 50 for the 1st 10 shields (Assumed empty shield box), and 3x25 for 30 more, meaning its assumed there are 10 shields to be used to complete the 50-shield caravan (10+30+10). An OCC-20 can sometimes generate 20 shields, pre-industrial. Then the cost goes down to just 100 gold. An OCC-4 village must make 10 or more base shields, but an OCC-1 will not make 10 in any event, though can usually be counted on for 5, which means an additional day for the caravan to complete or else paying 25 more gold and wasting the shield output that turn.




Industrial era

... or bribing one away from your rivals. If you bribe one closer to their homeland than yours, it will be unsupported and does not cost you a citizen. However, such bribery tends to be very expensive.
The NON occurs when the unit being bribed (its location) is closer its civilization's nearest city than to one of yours. In counting this, diagonals are worth 1.5 (not 1.41).

It can be expensive, though it can also be cheap. The cost of bribing a Settler/Engineer unit is double the "normal" cost of bribing a 40-shield unit. It is not uncommon for an AI to take the capital of another AI, or even for a Barbarian to take control of an AI capital; if so, then settlers will be much cheaper for two reasons: The civ will not have much gold (or at least will not be producing much new gold due to corrupted arrows), and the large constant "distance to capital". An exception occurs if the owning civ is in Democracy, since Human players can't bribe Democratic units.

As a note, I've had an OCCC-1 game in the last week were several early game settlers were less than 200g each. Those settlers created barb traps that in fact paid for themselves in making it possible to nail some more barb leaders.

Note: For info to new players, being in Democracy does not prevent the AI's Contact Bribe, and if you are aggressively using units to block or "steer" the AI units, then your individual units that are "troublesome" to the AI can (and often will) still be Contact Bribed despite your unit being in a Democracy.



When you are completely done with all transformation, irrigation, farmland creation it is time for the final round of celebrations to max size.
You can shave some lead time off of this by timing the remaining work days with the days of celebration it will take to reach the max size. If you are going from size 21 to 35, then that would take 1+14=15 days. If you have two engineers and one settler, then you can start when you have 15 days of farmland improvements to go, if you have already roaded the necessary tiles.

I have had cases when this happened when I was building space ship parts. Regardless, once you reach the maximum size, there is usually no need to keep your aqueduct or your sewer system, but if you are carrying a supported Engineer/Settler, and want to restore that citizen to the City, then it might be good to do it before selling off the Aqua/Sewer. In later game, civs will usually have too much gold to make it economical to bribe their Engineers, even if they have no capital. But sometimes this is not the case, and you can release the supported Set/Eng and use a bribed NON for endgame, thus obtaining more science/gold with the additional worker.



If you have enough food caravans on hand for your eventual victory, and expect hostilities near the end build some defensive infra structure such as city walls, barracks, seaport, and coastal fortress.
Barracks before Mobile Warfare cost 2 gold per turn, and a Port Facility (seaport?) costs 3 gold per turn. Mobile Warfare will cause the barracks to be sold off for 40 gold, and must then be rebuilt if desired for the end of the game when you might need to defend the village. So it may be unlikely to be cost/time effective to make these city improvements this early in an OCC.



Around this time you should start paying even more attention to micromanaging your science output.
Comment: A player should ideally micromanage all science throughout the game in an OCC. Its a horrendous waste if a turn ends with, for instance, 2 beakers short of an advance when the SSC is producing hundreds of beakers per turn. The described micromangement technique is good, but should be a normal part of player mindset before this point in the game :).




Modern Era

Plan ahead to finish building a research lab the turn after you get Computers. This will give you an immediate 33% boost in science which is very much needed.
This would actually be a 25% boost, assuming a Library and University. That comes from 50/(100+50+50)= 0.25, or 25%. The grand city total without wonders is 100% (base) + 50% (lib) + 50% (univ) + 50% (lab) = 250 %.



Of all the choices you have for a power plant, Nuclear is by far the best. Regular power plant costs as much in shields (160) but increases rather than decrease pollution. Hydro plant costs 240 shields instead of 160 and is as clean as Nuclear. Solar plant costs 320 shields and reduces pollution the most, but it comes so late in the game (in terms of enabling technology) that for OCC it is just out of the question.
If a player have been able to obtain (make/bribe) additional Engineers and/or settlers, then one strategy is to simply have a clean up detail in late game. This effectively makes the PI's irrelevant, and in practice a rule of thumb is that a Pollution Skull will occur every 2nd turn on average, but no more than one skull can occur per turn. So the question in an OCC-20 is the balance of resources and build turns in removal or prevention.

I often use these to pre-charge in fortresses, and then even a settler can zip out to the white skull and in one turn, zap it with the precharge. Two settlers or one engineer can usually handle the pollution. If so, then a power plant can be obtained earliest and need not be replaced with a nuclear plant (which could melt down in any event). Hydro plants cannot be built in all locations. But both Nuclear and Hydro do take more resources and occupy production days of a village. If for some reason no Power Plant were built earlier, and the additional output were needed after Nuclear Plants were available, then I too would build Nuclear.

Once consideration is to get to 84+ shields by the time structurals are ready to build (for an OCC-20 SS), though there are different shield combinations, even down to the OCC-1 SS.




Flight

You want to delay Flight as much as possible because it makes Colossus obsolete.
The other reason is that the trade bonus is lowered from 66% (Post-RR) to 33% (Post-Flight), which means the same freight delivery will collect less science and less gold after flight. You want to deliver them at higher value, and apply that science to things you need before flight.


Meanwhile avoid contact with your rivals. They are likely to cancel alliances at this point in the game or start wars if you do not share what they want with them. You should avoid giving them ...
If the tech you need is done and you've sold your science improvements, you can also consider a change of governments.

Normally, players should long before have been able to make fortresses within 3 tiles of the city (Democratic happiness), as well as fortresses at chokepoints which are occupied by Freight on NONs or charging Engineers/Settlers & sometimes dip/spy. The RR going thru each of these allows a shift of any unit to any location, and wounded to heal.

One can also make hills under key fortresses, to add 100% to their defense value. This way a non-vet Mech Inf defends with 18. If you can make the hill fortress on a river, then its 21. If its also Vet, then 24.



If you are surrounded by multiple rivals also add an airport, seaport, and coastal fortress.
If AI trade partners have an airport, then you should already have one also, for the bonuses (except would be if you have a qualified RR connection). Seaport is maybe Port Facility? If you have no navy, Port Facility is not necessary. Or if you are trying to make vet stealth fighters, its not worth occupying a game turn and expense. Coastal Fortresses still cost 1g per turn, so its good to know how and when Naval units bombard.



Disband all your ancient supported units and replace them with modern vet units.
Supported Ancient should long be gone; as a minimum if there are supported military land units, those should have been converted to Riflemen or Alpine already. As the SS is completed, Mech Inf and Stealth are good, but disbanding is probably not the best idea (unless money is tight and that a supported unit causes a shield of support that drops output below a common multiple like 40 or 50). The quantity of meat shield in fortresses will reduce/slow/stop an invasion. Just make the intended modern unit; if the village has an output of 50 shields, then that is a Vet Mech Inf every turn. For Stealth + a 50 shield village, just RB a Temple (160g), change to spy, add one line of 10 shields (25g), and switch to stealth. For OCC-4 (where you have 20 shields output), the same formula works to make a Mech Inf instead of stealth, and 30 more shields (3x25=75) for 75 more gold will make a Stealth.



Build fortresses in your city perimeter and put at least one unit in each even if it is a van.
If the unit is expected to meet enemy units which want to get through, then the AI will not bribe a Freight, but can Contact Bribe a lone military unit, so use a good defense unit doubled up with a dip/spy, a freight/caravan, a weak or damaged unit, or "old" unit.
 
Quote:Originally Posted by Ali
Quote:Originally Posted by starlifter
A Pheasant in a river might be more valuable than a Whale
No it is not. In despotism you get 2 food, 2 shields, and 1 arrow from the pheasant on river and 2 food, 2 shields, and 2 arrows from the whale so the whale wins. In Monarchy the pheasant will get an additional food and the whale an additional arrow. Which is more valuable depends on your other circumstances. At the start (and in despotism), the whale wins over all specials.
I was referring to the value, not the direct arrow count in Despotism. The value to a site is part of the whole, and the time spent in Despotism had better be very small.

As one is out of Despotism very rapidly, the food and eventually trade will increase. With a Whale, you can later get the food by paying a gold per turn and production time for 60 shields, for a harbor (which will eventually happen anyway most likely, whale or not).

Also in mid/late game a river pheasant can have greater value, and it can be shaped (eg, irrigate the forest, then farmland/RR) to provide more shields and this can reduce the site hill count, and increase trade and city size as a result. This and the change timings are all computed/determined prior to city founding, normally.

Whales can be shaped with Harbor and Offshore, but the change is less radical and requires use of the city building queue. Wine is another possibility, esp river. One less food than an early whale, but lots more trade and another shield (after mining). In general, I would prefer wine over any other, including whales. And in early game, where food matters most, then a river Pheasant gushes food for no effort, while still providing shields and trade. So as you said, it depends on the other circumstances: the value is based on the look and situation of the rest of a potential village site.


Quote:Originally Posted by Ali
Quote:Originally Posted by starlifter
Comments: I much prefer hills over forest, because of the shield output. Your settler/eng will have time to mine, and faced with a forest or hill to occupy a square, I'd take a hill.

I disagree. I prefer forests to hills and here is my rationale:
1. Forests give you 2 shields right away. Hills give you none before mining. It takes a settler 10 turns to mine a hill.
2. In mid and late game when I may not need the shields as much any more I can irrigate forest to plains in a mere 5 settler turns. It takes an engineer to transform a hill and it takes 20 engineer turns which is 8 times as much.
And what do I get for these two significant disadvantages? 1 extra shield. It is simply not worth it.
The answer is determined before the village is founded (usually). Each shield is counted, and the effect of each shield thoughout the ages is determined. A single shield can make a large difference in many situations, esp. when aiming for an OCC-20 village that can make 80 shields, or make 50+, etc.

This is why I think rivers are so valuable in OCC; you can make hills/mines/RRs and gain those shields yet maintain good trade, and then use more grassland to maximize the Scientists. If a shield is not needed, then it can mean more food and then larger science/gold output with scientists/taxmen.

All of this is computed in site selection, and if everything is not revealed initially, then when the gaps are filled. There should be thousands of years lead time in knowing exactly which tiles will be Hilled. In general, no forests should remain; that would in almost all cases mean that the site has not been maxed to its potential. However, sometimes it may not be necessary to truly maximize a site, but it good to plan on it.

The time necessary to completely create the ideal 20 tiles, and the timing of each tile's needed use, set the game's work schedule. Then the time comes for SS, the rubber meets the road... everything else to that point was getting into the best position to make that spaceship as rapidly and often as inexpensively as possible. Setting up the correct shield ratios is merely part of the expected cost of the spaceship. However, an alternative of gold can be used to make up shortfalls in many situations (e.g., 160 gold can give 20 shields for a SS part, every turn, and a 77 shield village can still produce a structural every turn and reduce the consumption of Caravan/freight in that phase).

So actually, that shield... and more accurately the collection of hills (not just one) to gain certain multiples makes a large difference.

Example: Four pre-RR hills do the work (4 * 3s = 12 shields) of 6 forests (6 * 2s = 12s), and thus more food and trade (assuming hills/forests have no rivers) comes from the differential (6-4=2), which two fewer 1-food tiles means a surplus of 2 (all plains) to 4 food (all grassland), and that surplus in turn can be used in controlling happiness during growth (esp. in Republic nearing size 20). When size is eventually maxed, the extra food will support more specialist workers.

A forest or two is certainly good initially, to adjust output without immediate settler work. But all forests will eventually need to be irrigated; if not, the village is underperforming. Hence, I'd rather begin the the correct number of hills, or at least minimize the number needed for transformation, and minimize the number of forests that have to be irrigated.
 
I found the OCC comparison game at

http://test.apolyton.net/showthread.php/131262-OCC-2005-Game-1/page2

I don't think you need a password to view it. IMO the discussions between elephantu and solo are worth a look, though you may be beyond that. IIRC solo "won" via early republic, but I'll let you draw your own conclusions, if any. Not sure if the starting save is still there, but I might still have it, if you are interested in trying it.
I finally had a chance to finish reading all 6 pages of comments there. It was definitely a worthwhile read. Thanks. I would like to try the same game myself and see how I do versus top experts like Solo and ElephantU. I would appreciate you sending it to me or uploading it here. I tried downloading it from the Apolyton site but unfortunately their site will not allow me to do so even though I am registered there now.
 
Ancient era
Your tech goal is Monarchy followed by Trade followed by Mapmaking. Due to tech hiding, the order is not very strict. Often you have to do mapmaking before Trade.

Out of curiosity, has it been firmly established that you should focus on getting Monarchy before Trade, or has this just been assumed, because that is what you do in a regular game? I ask this because one of the benefits of switching to Monarchy is reduced corruption, which isn't a problem if you only have one city. The other advantage is extra production, but it is not immediately obvious that this is more advantageous than getting Trade somewhat earlier (and potentially being able to trade for Ceremonial Burial and possibly Monarchy).

This is not to say that I think it is very likely that Trade before Monarchy is a better strategy, but I do think that a Monarchy First tech path is a sufficiently non-trivial claim that it deserves some justification, if the issue has not yet been properly analysed.
 
I'd say it depends entirely on terrain. You get hardly any bonuses from Monarchy apart from lifting the terrain restrictions:
1) +3 support per city instead of +1 per size (mostly useless)
2) Lesser corruption (useless)
3) 70% max sci instead of 60% (marginally useful)
4) +1 trade when celebrating (marginally useful)
5) No restrictions on tile output (potentially highly useful)

However, does getting Trade early really help? I assume the point is to get MPE sooner. Other than being able to rush build caravans, you can get it just as soon by starting another wonder earlier and then getting Trade around the time it's projected to be done.

The only resource that give you 3 or more of 2 types of commodities are Spice and Wine. I'll wager a guess that if you stand to gain a total yield increase of 4 or more (at size 3) then Monarchy is a good investment. If not, why not go Republic first then Trade? Defense is not needed, and Diplomats make good early scouts.
 
Out of curiosity, has it been firmly established that you should focus on getting Monarchy before Trade, or has this just been assumed, because that is what you do in a regular game?

This is not to say that I think it is very likely that Trade before Monarchy is a better strategy, but I do think that a Monarchy First tech path is a sufficiently non-trivial claim that it deserves some justification, if the issue has not yet been properly analysed.
Good points. I guess I was too brief. First of all, the order depends more on hut outcomes than tech hiding. Secondly, I agree with you that change of government should almost always precede Trade. The only exception that comes to my mind is when due to hut outcomes and shield accumulation you are going to miss Marco if you do not do Trade before Monarchy/Republic. Thirdly, now that I am being detailed, Map making is a significantly lower priority than the other two.

I'd say it depends entirely on terrain. You get hardly any bonuses from Monarchy apart from lifting the terrain restrictions:
1) +3 support per city instead of +1 per size (mostly useless)
2) Lesser corruption (useless)
3) 70% max sci instead of 60% (marginally useful)
4) +1 trade when celebrating (marginally useful)
5) No restrictions on tile output (potentially highly useful)
It is mostly about 5 and somewhat about 3. I would say 4 is useless too since at higher levels you cannot celebrate in Monarchy without a temple.
The only resource that give you 3 or more of 2 types of commodities are Spice and Wine.
Why do you care about 2 types? If you get 3+ of even one type, you lose one in Despotism. All specials give you 3+ of at least one thing.
I'll wager a guess that if you stand to gain a total yield increase of 4 or more (at size 3) then Monarchy is a good investment. If not, why not go Republic first then Trade? Defense is not needed, and Diplomats make good early scouts.
Early Republic is sometimes a good option in OCC and it should be discussed but the issue here was whether Trade should precede Monarchy/Republic and the answer is almost never.
 
Early Republic is sometimes a good option in OCC ...

I just tried that (skip Monarchy and go straight for Republic) and it worked pretty well. I landed in 1847 which I think is a new PB.:D

However I did manipulate a little: Created a random map, worked a little around a 4-special site and chose it as starting location to spare me running around and looking for an appropriate city site.
 
I finally had a chance to finish reading all 6 pages of comments there. It was definitely a worthwhile read. Thanks. I would like to try the same game myself and see how I do versus top experts like Solo and ElephantU. I would appreciate you sending it to me or uploading it here. I tried downloading it from the Apolyton site but unfortunately their site will not allow me to do so even though I am registered there now.

Sorry - I haven't been following this thread and just got your PM. I am attaching the 4000BC save here, in case others want to try it too. As I recall, each player had the option of switching to another player's save at 2000BC, 1000BC, etc. (or maybe we voted on which we'd all switch to). So, you may be at a disadvantage playing alone. I still have a few saves from 2000BC, etc, and can post those upon request; but I don't remember which were the best anymore, so tell me specificly which other ones you want, if any.
 

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Thank you. This would probably suffice. I can follow the discussion on Apolyton, but none of the saves are available.

Yesterday, I finished incorporating all the feedback here into my guide. I plan to read it from start to finish one more time and play this save.

Meanwhile, if there is more feedback by anyone, I love to hear it.

Finally, and this is more for Magic, how should I format the final document? It is currently very lightly formatted in MSWord, but I am thinking it should be put in HTML.
 
Thank you. This would probably suffice. I can follow the discussion on Apolyton, but none of the saves are available.

Yesterday, I finished incorporating all the feedback here into my guide. I plan to read it from start to finish one more time and play this save.

Meanwhile, if there is more feedback by anyone, I love to hear it.

Finally, and this is more for Magic, how should I format the final document? It is currently very lightly formatted in MSWord, but I am thinking it should be put in HTML.

If you can put in in HTML I can add it to the war academy...
 
Peaster,

Thanks again for posting the Apolyton's OCC comparison game. I just finished playing it. I started at the original position since it was the logical decision given the amount of info available. Among the players there, only ElephantU took a chance and of course he found a much better spot. Time permitting, I am planing on playing this one more time building at the second spot.

I tried my best to compare my progress to that of the players there based on logs alone (no saves). From what I could tell I was typically ahead of you, RJM, and Grigor. Solo was usually ahead of me and it was hard to tell with EelephantU.

For a long time barbarians did not show up near me at all which was nice. But then I got the worst possible barbarian blow in an OCC game (where barbarians cannot take your city): A barbarian Trireme sank my trireme with 2 commodity vans on board. This delayed my discovery of Sanitation by quite a few turns and since Shakespeare was already in place, it delayed my growth (from size 12 to size 21) by as many turns. Other than this one episode my game went as planned.

Only Solo, RJM, and StuporMan posted their final results. Others only posted till +1500. Of those Solo beat me by a whopping unbelievable 26 turns! Even without the barbarian disaster I doubt I could have matched him (let alone beat him). I beat RJM by 5 turns and StuporMan by 2.

This game, like many others on game generated maps had little action near the end. There were no enemy cities near me. My OCC experience is shaped significantly by playing on earth. Even though I play on large earth, with starting positions in Europe, middle east, and north Africa you are surrounded by multiple rivals. It is quite common to have rivals who build cities that share some of your city tiles in mid game (even early game). And in late game, when they all gang up against you, you are dealing with a constant stream of hostile forces.
 
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