Ok WTF?! (civs denouncing me)

[WaKonabi21772]

This is gonna be long. Just a warning.

So I'm playing a Large map, Lakes Map, Prince, random leaders. I roll Rameses II which is pretty sweet because he's one of my fav leaders and on top of that I get an AWESOME starting position. Plenty of forest for late game mills, marble 20 tiles away, furs, and a few other luxury and strategic resources very nearby. So I quickly settle where I feel is best and the game goes on I have a slight lead over Khan in score. After him and I its a total drop off.

This game progressed very strangely in that almost EVERY leader in the game wanted a friendship with me. And not only that, they were declaring friendships left and right. Everyone but Khan was in at 3 friendships. On top of that I have a defensive pact with Napoleon, close neighbor to the north, and Catherine, distant to the east.

I soon notice Khan is starting his warmongering, beginning with a city state that borders my east. Khan is my closest neighbor to the east and his military power is much above mine so I just let it happen and leave him alone. NOT ONE leader denounced, or did anything in retaliation to him.

So I'm looking to place 2 or 3 more cities before I settle in and begin gearing up to take out a neighbor. Well i'm on the southside of the map, so to the south theres some land, but it's almost all tundra or snow rendering it useless. I look to go slightly north decide I should take out the Copenhagen CS since it is allied with NOBODY and has 2 resources I could use, and would connect my northern expansion. As soon as I take it over I annex it.

NEXT TURN

EVERY leader except Khan denounces me (and every single leader was friendly toward me before this) and the turn later France, Russia, and England all declare war on me for my warmongering and picking on the little guy. Ok I understand I was picking on a little guy, but they had ZERO allies and wars are started all through history based on need and want for land. What bothers me the most here is that France and Russia are 2 of my closest allies, and they completely turn on me because of a CS they didn't care about to begin with. How does this make ANY sense...???

 

[Medopu]

Everyone has this problem, including me.

At the moment you can't have empires allied enough not to backstab you.

It happened in every game I played. The good part about their "war" is they don't attack with any real menace so you should definately hold at least 3 attackers (if they even come) at ease even with small armies.


Quite a few games I played, ended up all the same. It's ludicrous, propostrous, outrageous!

 

[PEACE!]

welcome to the club dude!

 

[CaptTightpants]

From the experiences people are having with Civ5, it seems that this is the usual occurrence. The Civ5 developers were touting the unpredictability of the AI leaders as a "feature" of the game. But to be honest, if this occurred only every now and then I would call it a feature. But when it happens so often it just makes "Friendly" relations completely meaningless.

This isn't a bug. It's a poor design decision being touted as its opposite.

 

[WaKonabi21772]

Well france is coming pretty hard, but with no real success. The Great Wall is AMAZING

 

[CivFanaticMan]

Well the AI plays to win, if you start to go for a victory they will try and stop you. Civ5 is just another strategy game now, not a civ builder. Don't worry, now that your at war you can use the best feature in the game, AKA tactical combat. I wonder if the developers intended for the AI to be so aggressive so you could use the only feature that is somewhat interesting.

 

[Jesus is Lord33]

I've gotten the same result. If Firaxis were to only fix the AI diplomacy, then I'd be happy enough to play this game religiously.

If I'm trying to grab a science victory only to be backstabbed, then that doesn't make the game enjoyable.



I liberated a Japanese city and gave it back to Japan. 3 turns later Japan denounces me.

My goal was obvious!

GOAL: Improve Relations W/ Japan

AI DIPLOMACY: Denounce Mongolia (Player 1)

All the effort I put into forming an alliance was worth nothing.

 

[DaveGold]

Essentially the AI will eventually dislike you if you don't become friends early simply because you will accumulate diplomatic debits (such as you built wonders they liked) without any credits. If you're a friend they take every opportunity to denounce you (such as your becoming ally with a city state they claimed to like) and this will reduce your standing with every other nation. This leaves a human player with little or no diplomatic strategy.

 

[Alpedar]

Looks like returnig worker is considered big favor (or et least, in one game Washington was much more friendlier and did complain much less than anyone else after I returned his worker, even though we shared border).

So maybe declare friendship only with somehow distant civ to which you manage to return worker.
And when inevitable happen, bayonet diplomacy works too.

 

[Arsenic Steel]

Well I find not taking part in the Friendship party also reduces my involvement in the AI's denouncing chains. By the time the AI leaders stop eating each other in wars to pay attention to me, I am already cementing my victory condition. At that point even if I were friends with others the chain denouncing of me around that point.

 

[cman2010]

From the experiences people are having with Civ5, it seems that this is the usual occurrence. The Civ5 developers were touting the unpredictability of the AI leaders as a "feature" of the game. But to be honest, if this occurred only every now and then I would call it a feature. But when it happens so often it just makes "Friendly" relations completely meaningless.

This isn't a bug. It's a poor design decision being touted as its opposite.

exactly they claim it is a feature to make up for poor ai. This is why civ 5 is not half the game civ 4 and 3 were.

 

[aatami]

Poll about the berserk AI: link

 

[Stilgar08]

* Occasionally AI leaders will pop up in diplomacy simply to insult your civilization in some way. What is the reason for this? Does it serve any point whatsoever? I can't imagine that someone thought it would be fun to receive random insults like this.

Exactly - And they start denouncing so early it's not an argument you are close to winning the game...

 

[DST1348]

Hello,

Washington, Siam, and me all had DoF with each other and we were Friends. This looked like a nice Diplo-Triangle. Then Washington asked me to join his war against Japan. I asked for the ten turns of preparation and when the time came I DoW on Japan. After I captured a Japanese CS and two Japanese cities Washington denounced me for being a warmonger . Then Siam denounced me because "my friend found reason to denounce [me]" . I expect them to DoW on me any turn now.

That there are a few backstabbers among the 16 civilizations was to be expected. Like Isabelle in Civ IV. But this is the rule rather than the exception in CiV.

But there is a bright side as well: I have seen civs going from Hostile to Friendly in just two turns. Not that it matters... And you can ask the AI to pay you for declaring war against another AI even though they are not at war. In said game, I traded money from Washington for me declaring war against England. At that time he was not at war with England and wasn't even close to their lands...

 

[Babri]

Hello,

Washington, Siam, and me all had DoF with each other and we were Friends. This looked like a nice Diplo-Triangle. Then Washington asked me to join his war against Japan. I asked for the ten turns of preparation and when the time came I DoW on Japan. After I captured a Japanese CS and two Japanese cities Washington denounced me for being a warmonger . Then Siam denounced me because "my friend found reason to denounce [me]" .

You must have got very ahead of other nations in score after capturing the cities. That is why other civs started hating u.

 

[DST1348]

You must have got very ahead of other nations in score after capturing the cities. That is why other civs started hating u.

I didn't notice it, but yes, I got ahead in score (Me 960, France 940, Siam/America 750). Most of my score comes from Population and land. I can understand that other civs become wary, but that Washington gets angry at me for wining a war that he wanted me to fight in is just silly IMO.

 

[kingpapawawa]

i don't mind getting denounced when i have done something like roll a CS.. whats frustrating is when a friend denounces you and their only reason is "a friend denounced you".. when they are the supposed friend who did it....

"i denounce you because i denounce you"

THEN this triggers a mass denounce, everyone dislikes me because a friend disliked me.

 

[MadRat]

It isn't just you they denounce - it is royal gang bang once its starts with denouncements flying like confetti. It also triggers pretty much a non-stop series of wars that basically guarantees that you're going to have to play a domination win or get buried by petty wars.

Rat

 

[WaKonabi21772]

After reading about a lot of AI issues and having many of my own i've decided that the root of all these ******ed issues is that the AI is programmed to win no matter what means necessary, or more noticably programmed to STOP you from winning. This turns the game completely unrealistic and ruins diplomacy in every aspect.

I understand each game is a competition, but the AI no longer acts like an opposing civ, but like someone on Survivor who does stuff just because "its a game" without any thought to social reality.

 

[DarkSchneider]

I'm playing a Civ game now where I went from being friendly with every leader in the world, to all of them denouncing me simultaneously, to all simultaneously declaring war. I don't remember doing anything significant that would have caused this.