[BTS] Overall approach for an immortal non-isolation map

[sylvanllewelyn]

Standard immortal difficulty map, no modifications, no special challenge. Not isolation. Not semi-isolation. Good starting area. Room for expansion.

Spoiler :

3 files: worldbuilder, original, buffy.

The basic question is

Spoiler :

Should I try to get my neighbours to friendly diplomatic status? It's hard. I can't avoid the hidden warmonger penalty and the -2 close borders tension. There's no religion, I can try to found one. I can't get the +1 years of peace because they break the peace. I could take all their cities, it's easier and the rathaus is made for this, but turning this into an isolation map seems very counterproductive.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

buffy

hidden warmonger penalty

As far as I know in Buffy all attitude adjustments are shown.

 

[sampsa]

Spoiler :

I don't think you can get neither to friendly in the BCs unless Monty founds a religion (which he doesn't seem to do in this game). They start only at +2 towards each other and Shaka was cautious towards Monty at +2 so it's not bad at all. They won't be friendly with each other, pretty much ever. Of course the thing is you are in the middle and probably get declared on a few times. You can handle it though. And getting both to pleased is very easy with city gifts, which makes the declaration less likely.

T50

Spoiler :

While I hate early roads, those city spots in the south are just too enticing imo. Put Prague on the hill just to be safe. My typical non-fogbust on immortal and settle cities greedily. Well, with chariots there is no huge risk, but perhaps should've busted the east at least. In my wildest dreams settle 4th on marble, chop Oracle, take CoL and it's pretty much gg. Oh trade routes to Monty opened on T42 so gifted/traded away to start bonding.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Thanks sampsa! Yes I can handle it, it's more about optimising the play.

You taught me something important.

Spoiler :

My mindset was fight or friendly diplomacy status. You gave me a third path. Defend when attacked, keep diplomacy status at pleased to reduce attacks.

 

[sampsa]

Spoiler :

Dreams come true! I like how the southern border shapes up as it will take a while for the border tension to kick in. Already +5 pre-religion: +4 fair trade, +1 liberation, +1 years of peace, +1 resources, -2 being a prick. Maybe 30T to friendly? Confu spawned in the best possible spot. Now just expand and consider city gift for the northern barbarian. Should be a relatively straight-forward win from here. Never went to slavery btw, IMP kinda allows you to focus more on . Capital is weak of course, but +3 is not nothing if you just never stop growing (=settlers/workers built in secondary cities).

 

[antimony]

General not map specific comments

Spoiler :

For many of the plot at pleased neighbors, you can also bribe them to declare on each other even if they are pleased with each other. It's not a long term solution because then they request you to join the war and you take a diplo hit by refusing, but it helps delay.

For the general idea that you should not turn a shared continent game into an iso one if you can avoid it, I think it's based mostly on the logic of tech trading. So the efficiency question is would you rather have the potential tech trades or their land.

 

[Tecumseh1]

I played up to T40.

Given the map/resources and opponents my plan is keep expanding south and southwest and attack Monty. My tech path was Agri-AH-Arch-Wheel-Mining (just started BW). It was early archery but I'm new to playing immortal and wanted to protect some nice lands to the south. Also this seems like kind of map where delaying BW a bit is OK since we don't really wanna whip capital and there are are 3 great production tiles already in the capital. Settled corn + horse for 2nd city and planning to put 3rd city with pig and right on Monty's border. I think 3 cities should be enough to build army for HA rush (with a few chariots for medic and killing his axes).

 

[sampsa]

@Tecumseh1

Spoiler :

I think it is possible to win that war, but it is too risky to my taste. He is a bit far and our leader is not the most suitable for HA-strategy. Also, as you climb up the difficulty levels you'll see that in general a friendly AI is better than a dead AI. Also winning the war leads to the situation that you are alone with a single AI. That means that you'll get no tech trades, unless you get the AI to friendly. With Shaka that is difficult due to base attitude towards human player, shared religion is capped at +4 and no way to get shared civic bonus. https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-1-know-your-enemy.478563/page-3#post-11931803

 

[Tecumseh1]

That makes sense. It's easier to get good trades at this level as the AI techs much faster. Are you planning to attack at construction with elephants/catapults for the first war? Maybe wait for engineering/trebs? The AI tech pace seems to get insane at some point and before I know it they get rifling and my war epically fails.

 

[sampsa]

Spoiler :

No, I am working to get Monty to friendly so he is valuable for me, unless he falls too much behind. Shaka is likely irrelevant. No war at least before cuirassiers and probably later, after astro contact.

If you build up your empire well, you are the runaway civ in nearly every immortal game. How to do it is the next step in your learning process!