Pie's Ancient Europe

- it works for traded bonus resources too. how should you pack them inside a wagon (from the capital)?

I didn't know you could spread traded resources. Makes sense though. Pity you can't have a new building to enable the spread of traded resources. A trade centre or warehouse or something like that. Then it could be from any city that has that building. Failing that maybe you could limit it to the capital or any port city.

EDIT: On second thoughts a building is not such a good idea, you'd end up building it in every city. The same for ports, a civ could have a lot of them. So maybe the capital is best (and simplest).

- Elephants: as Carthagians you can only upgrade simple elephant units to War elephants. when you get the resource, you can build them too.
but the resource should stay in the south waiting to get imported by a cultural fortress.

I clearly haven't played enough yet. Too early for coments i think :p
 
got the patch...lets not nick pick too much...lets get it stable and final and give Pie a needed break.

and the scenario makers time to catch up!!!

i'm sure it's hard to watch all your weeks of work go boom...when you have to start over...again!!!

stay calm...have fun :):):)

:banana::banana::banana::banana:

PAEV is here...lets get a final patch and lets play ancient!!!

P.S. Pie...when it is done; please take a break and spend time with the wife and kids...i mean it...like 6 or 7 months...

take ideas; play with the kids; play with the wife :p; play your creation; please let those scenario makers catch up...give them and you time.


For all those scenario makers...wow...I love your work

real or close to real...even myth history. Again ... wow...
 
Hello.

We tryed me and the player Tasunke, to play Pie V (with the newest patch) in multiplayer.

Problem : always OSS with any scenario maps or any maps pre created or generated.

On pre created it seems to OSS at turn 2, on the others turn 3. It did not OSS for few more turns on duell sized generated map.

We tryed to desactive events, and others tweaks like that but it changed nothing.

So multiplayer is unpossible and I doubt someone tested it for this version... :)
 
got the patch...lets not nick pick too much...lets get it stable and final and give Pie a needed break.

and the scenario makers time to catch up!!!

I'm sure Pie expected a couple of weeks of assesment and bug fixes but apart from that I agree completely.
 
So multiplayer is unpossible and I doubt someone tested it for this version... :)
Of course, I tested it. And it was a very, very stange think. I had to copy the files from the host to the clients. otherwise (unpacking them from a download) it didn't work. just 1 byte difference and you have an OOS the very first turn!
it seems CIV checks the number of bytes and puts out a synch if it differs! great stuff ey! :D


got the patch...lets not nick pick too much...lets get it stable and final and give Pie a needed break.
Yes ;)
when it's time for that... ;)
 
We have no OSS in first turn but second or third.

It is strange so you want to say that we have not downloaded and installed the exact same version ? If we redl and install all it should work so ?
 
I don't know why. I could only play, when I copied the files from the host. Strange? :D
 
We tryed with Tasunke and another player Pie IV. It worked without OSS until turn 64.

Then we all reinstalled the last Pie V file and tryed, but OSS turn 4.

So we let fall. We got the exact same files, same folder name but unpossible to play. We cannot have more than that the same files.

We tryed using hamachi, internet lobby, it changed nothing.
 
Another thing. I noticed that, the first time I downloaded PIE V, it was Cultivation that increased Pastures by +1 food, but that in the patch, and even in the main download, it was changed to Cultivation increasing Pastures by +1 commerce.

Now, I have to ask, how often do you update the 'main download' in such a way (as opposed to releasing such updates as patches), and why the nerf to pastures? And was it included in the patch notes.

The FOOD version was downloaded on February 23rd, and the COMMERCE version was downloaded today. However both are presented as the same download. I would think that this could be an obstacle in having the same files too .... but my main question is why? (now, the links were given to me by a third party, however it was definitely presented the same way, as unmodified PIE V)

---------------

The way I see it, Farms can get up to +4 food (+1 base and 3 tech mods), and Pastures can get up to +3 food. Since pastures can be built on Savannah's while Farms can't, in the early game Pastures are the superior choice for savannas .... while camps are always best in forest.

In the late game however, farms break even on savannah and are better everywhere else. Since farms are almost always better out in open land, I am not really sure why pastures were nerfed. Was this intended? I know it sort of makes them equivalent to camps having just a +1 food effect, however pastures can't be built in forest (at least not the version I've actually played). Since cultivation is early-game, I terminated the game before it could go very far, and reverted to the Feb 23rd version.

Now, I am considering to update to the latest, and then to simply mod from there ... but I should probably take a closer look at the patchnotes, As I'm currently in turn 300 of a long Babylonian campaign, and would wish to finish the game before any fundamental rules, such as terrain/improvements, are changed on me further.

I approve of your changes to savannah's and forests when compared to IV, considering the extra food, and the ability to build many improvements while not destroying (especially pasture and cottage).
 
Hi Tasunke,

the changes are all intended and was discussed in the German forum some days long.
Farms shall be better than pastures later on. and this wasn't before. pastures were better, not only because they don't remove forest too (health bonus).

I do such discussions in the German forum because I still have no subforum here, no worries, I've already requested...

Why the 1st patch is now included in the full version. It's more comfortable for new PAE players.
Changes are more realistic.
That the patch is included in the main download is described and marked with a *.

I am sorry, I did forgot to mention these terrain feature changes as it is important for advanced saved games! I really forgot about it!

For your save, it's easy to change it by opening Assets/XML/Terrain/Improvements -> Pasture
The first yield line stands for food. For new games or MP games you have to change that back!

;) It shows, that just changing one property of something, changes the whole strategy.
 
Are pastures able to be built in Forest in V patch 1?

In V before the patch, Pastures could only be built in Savannah. (well or in open land, but farms are always better than pasture in open land)

Savannah -> allowed pastures, was destroyed by mine

Forest -> allowed mine, was destroyed by Pastures

(both allowed Cottages)

Does this behavior continue in patch 1?


-------------

I know this has probably been in for a while but .... Creative and Philosophical?

1) will there ever be a Phi/Cre leader in Pie?

2) why are the two almost identical? (Cre gives +1 happy, and better building bonuses ... Phil gives +1 culture)

honestly Cre at least 'seems' a bit better ... but im sure the +1 culture of Phi is actually pretty good. But why +1 and not +2? And .... why are they identical at all? (+1 sci, +50% library creation, +50% great person points)
 
I love this mod, all them musics, the concepts, the feeling of historical developpement. But I have remarks :


- Traits are not designed to be balanced. Financial and Spiritual are largely better than all others for exemple. Spiritual give you immunity to any revolt of regim change which is very strong.

- Some units but in reality to early and mid/advanced games, archers are largely your main force to use in attack or defense, because it is largely better to bombard at max any ennemy unit, than to try making counter unit as spear axe etc. Moreover, archers do not grow in their cost by units on field, so you do good at spawming them. The others units begun really interesting from the shield bearer I guess, used with chariots to preserve their health before attacking city you siege (chariot move to the attacked city, then shield beared attack same turn). About archers bombardement in my opinion it is one of the thing which should be seriously nerfed. In city you should not be bombared by archers like that, only siege unit should be able to do that. And certain units should have health cap to bombardement (as the shield bearer for exemple).

- Personnally I only spawn cottages (after food/prod/cultivation off course) because there is quickly largely enough food to growing and slaving : you have some food ressources, then food ressources bringed by cultivation, then the first food cult, then food slaves, thenn food with colonisation regim (the best economic regims of all). All cults tend to bring you gigantic bonus if you extor well the ressources of A.I (A.I tend to give all his ressources vs useless ressources, as the free bronze ressource). That is why I never found religion when I am rome : it is better to have greek pantheon and be friend with halth of the world.

- Some regims are useless, as the democratic (-50 % military units is unbearable), or Aristocraty (useles), or Mercenary. It is nice on paper and in the idea, but in the game, military production is all (making units = waging war = slaves = production, food and gold, or making units = selling units = gold = more science). Maybe in very late game, when you acess to an excellent wealth and science creation (as if hammer converted in 50 % science and 50 % gold, which exist I guess but in very late tech), selling units became less interesting. But even before, creating units are largely better if you need science than making merchants (but you need the max military produdction what you can, as +25% with conscription, then +25 % great priest, then tyrannie +50% and emperor cult 25%).

- My main regret about the mod, is the A.I is very dumb and uncapable of managing any serious threatening stack. A.I nearly never invade you with serious force even in Deity, and when he do it, his attack nearly always fail and just give you plenty of slaves. I can won any game on deity due to this problem, without any challenge (the People of the sea boats are the most annoying things if I am a coastal civ). That is sad because the abondance of units and complexity of the mod is very exciting when you play and when you imagine, but when you see you start to vassalize the A.Is one by one, you loose your will to continue because you understand you were nearly never threatened in the game.
 
Overall I think the OOS issue is the most glaring. I for one would heavily enjoy playing trans-continentally with one of the European Maps, rather than being limited to Hot Seat altercations, which in my case ... hotseat is a present impossibility.
 
Are pastures able to be built in Forest in V patch 1?

In V before the patch, Pastures could only be built in Savannah. (well or in open land, but farms are always better than pasture in open land)
Savannah -> allowed pastures, was destroyed by mine
Forest -> allowed mine, was destroyed by Pastures
(both allowed Cottages)
Does this behavior continue in patch 1?

-------------

I know this has probably been in for a while but .... Creative and Philosophical?

1) will there ever be a Phi/Cre leader in Pie?

2) why are the two almost identical? (Cre gives +1 happy, and better building bonuses ... Phil gives +1 culture)

honestly Cre at least 'seems' a bit better ... but im sure the +1 culture of Phi is actually pretty good. But why +1 and not +2? And .... why are they identical at all? (+1 sci, +50% library creation, +50% great person points)

Building a pasture keeps at is was. no forests, but savannah.

Phi/Cre: no, I think because these two traits are very similar, I will always use them together with a military/construction trait.

For me beeing philo and creative is too close together.


I love this mod, all them musics, the concepts, the feeling of historical developement. But I have remarks :


- Traits are not designed to be balanced. Financial and Spiritual are largely better than all others for exemple. Spiritual give you immunity to any revolt of regim change which is very strong.

- Some units but in reality to early and mid/advanced games, archers are largely your main force to use in attack or defense, because it is largely better to bombard at max any ennemy unit, than to try making counter unit as spear axe etc. Moreover, archers do not grow in their cost by units on field, so you do good at spawming them. The others units begun really interesting from the shield bearer I guess, used with chariots to preserve their health before attacking city you siege (chariot move to the attacked city, then shield beared attack same turn). About archers bombardement in my opinion it is one of the thing which should be seriously nerfed. In city you should not be bombared by archers like that, only siege unit should be able to do that. And certain units should have health cap to bombardement (as the shield bearer for exemple).

- Personnally I only spawn cottages (after food/prod/cultivation off course) because there is quickly largely enough food to growing and slaving : you have some food ressources, then food ressources bringed by cultivation, then the first food cult, then food slaves, thenn food with colonisation regim (the best economic regims of all). All cults tend to bring you gigantic bonus if you extor well the ressources of A.I (A.I tend to give all his ressources vs useless ressources, as the free bronze ressource). That is why I never found religion when I am rome : it is better to have greek pantheon and be friend with halth of the world.

- Some regims are useless, as the democratic (-50 % military units is unbearable), or Aristocraty (useles), or Mercenary. It is nice on paper and in the idea, but in the game, military production is all (making units = waging war = slaves = production, food and gold, or making units = selling units = gold = more science). Maybe in very late game, when you acess to an excellent wealth and science creation (as if hammer converted in 50 % science and 50 % gold, which exist I guess but in very late tech), selling units became less interesting. But even before, creating units are largely better if you need science than making merchants (but you need the max military produdction what you can, as +25% with conscription, then +25 % great priest, then tyrannie +50% and emperor cult 25%).

- My main regret about the mod, is the A.I is very dumb and uncapable of managing any serious threatening stack. A.I nearly never invade you with serious force even in Deity, and when he do it, his attack nearly always fail and just give you plenty of slaves. I can won any game on deity due to this problem, without any challenge (the People of the sea boats are the most annoying things if I am a coastal civ). That is sad because the abondance of units and complexity of the mod is very exciting when you play and when you imagine, but when you see you start to vassalize the A.Is one by one, you loose your will to continue because you understand you were nearly never threatened in the game.

- I don't think traits should be compared together for balance. They have to be different! That's different traits!
For me, I more like experienced units than no risk during civic change. I am not the player who changes that often.

- Yes, archers shall be a main unit during the whole game. that's the difficulty to have a unit from begin on till the end. it's one unit!
but they are not that strong as you say. not even from beginning on. I wouldn't use them on open field without other units.
And I can't imagine, to use eg only 50 archers for city attack. they drop the health to 50% but then? even with 50% damage, against 100% city defense it's still hard.

- cottages, bonus of resources through cults: yes, you got it. then you have an easy play. think of those, who never used corporation before and ignore them. it's harder.

- Rome and Greek religion: very good! that's strategy! don't change to Roman gods from the first possible turn. Wait till you don't need your friendly Greek neighbors and switch when it's time. That's tactics, you probably didn't have to think about before!

- Some regimes are only useful if you have a smaller nation! That's intended.

- AI. Yes, what shall I say. With patch 1 I give them all a forced ranged attack. Maybe now, they are a bit more dangerous for human players.

Overall I think the OOS issue is the most glaring. I for one would heavily enjoy playing trans-continentally with one of the European Maps, rather than being limited to Hot Seat altercations, which in my case ... hotseat is a present impossibility.

- Yes, I will check the OOS problem when I have the time for it. the next few weeks it's really bad. I jump from one important project into another... (in real life of course;))
 
Hi, it's me again with the same problem.

I'm using the updated version and even a new computer.

The game "freezes" at a certain point while it waits for the AI players. It seems to do this around 1100-1300 BC and only when I'm playing civs in Western Europe, like Rome or Iberia. Sometimes I can reload an auto-save from a few turns earlier, and the freeze will pass, but even if I get past that freeze another will occur inevitably.

I'm not sure why I keep getting this problem... it must be something I'm doing or not doing.
 

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Hi guys , hi pie at and many thanks for your excellent mod , very light and i can play regularly even if i have a old pc . Soon i plan to translate in italian the rest of the mod , first the "events" that i see are in english when i play .
 
The game "freezes" at a certain point while it waits for the AI players. It seems to do this around 1100-1300 BC and only when I'm playing civs in Western Europe, like Rome or Iberia. Sometimes I can reload an auto-save from a few turns earlier, and the freeze will pass, but even if I get past that freeze another will occur inevitably.

Maybe it would help to track down the problem, if you enabled Python exceptions and the error logging system (if you haven't already).

Find the CivilizationIV.ini file. (->My Documents/My Games/Beyond the Sword/CivilizationIV.ini)

Open with Notepad, Textwrangler or any text editor and go to line 103. Change it into this:
; Set to 1 for no python exception popups
HidePythonExceptions = 0

And in line 227:

; Enable the logging system
LoggingEnabled = 1

Now, after crashes the log files in My Documents/My Games/Beyond the Sword/Logs will contain informations, that you could post here, and hopefully somebody can make something of it. (Pie will be back in a week.)

Sometimes a corrupted download can be the cause of crashes, too.

Hi guys , hi pie at and many thanks for your excellent mod , very light and i can play regularly even if i have a old pc . Soon i plan to translate in italian the rest of the mod , first the "events" that i see are in english when i play .
That's good news! We have been theorizing for a long time, why there were so few Italian PAE players, since the Italians are often and rightly quite proud of their ancient heritage, and PAE without a doubt glorifies Roman history;)…
 
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