Planning a BtS Mod. Who wants to lend a hand?

[Lance of Llanwy]

This thread is for brainstorming and sharing research.


I am unhappy with the selection of both the Byzantines and the Holy Roman Empire, as, in my personal opinion, neither is a civilization at all. I shall be removing them, and replacing them with more worthy candidates. However, I'm a modding noob, and I realize that there are certain civs people would've liked to see, so I want to make my work available as a mod comp, preferably with a version for having no Byzies or.....(see what I mean?) and a version with them, as some people will want as many choices as possible.

Civilizations I am considering...
-At least one additional South East Asian civilization
-One additional Mesopotamian civ(Hittites, perhaps)
-At least one group to represent the Polynesians
-Poland

Suggestions other than Austria are welcome, and suggestions for leaders, UUs, and UBs are welcome as well. I also plan on modding leader traits, and perhaps including additional leaders for pre-existing civs. Provide sources if possible, preferably not Wikipedia. Restrictions are:
-I will NOT include multiple UUs or UBs
-I will NOT alter the core gameplay
- I will NOT exceed 2 leaders per civ except in special circumstances. Additional leaders above the 2nd should be extremely influential. Yes, I am considering adding Hitler.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

How this list?
-Europe(+1)
Poland
HRE---->Franks(funny how a little name change makes it better and more accurate)

-North America(+2)
Sioux/Lakota(already done other than the UB!)
Iroquios(did I spell that right?)
Shawnee(Tecumseh fascinates me. Correct me if I'm wrong.)

-Africa
Any suggestions? Please back them up with something to impress me with.

Middle East
-Israel(Solomon or David...and some one later. A Founding Father of modern Israel, perhaps. Remember, make a convincing case, and the candidate has to be dead and buried.)

Asia
-Vietnam
Any suggestions?

Polynesians
Anyone know much about them?

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

What's the scope? Are you just going to change civs and leaders or are you going to be introducing some new concepts, units, and city improvements as well?

 

[TORARADICAL]

What's the scope? Are you just going to change civs and leaders or are you going to be introducing some new concepts, units, and city improvements as well?

What he said

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

Well, I don't know. My modding experience is limited. I absolutely love the core game, so I'm not keen on messing with it too much....but I am thinking on an archery range...a stable for archery units. Comes at archery, obsolete at gunpowder. Speaking of archers...I've always wanted to do something to make them not suck, and I've always been annoyed that there aren't any skirmishers. Or melee cavalry until knights. And I've decided I won't remove the Byzies and I'll rename the HRE.....

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

If you just want new Civs then look to the CivGold project, they have done all those civs for Warlords and will certainly port them to BtS.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

I'm going to be modifying my game myself anyways....which is why I'm doing this. I have my own ideas, and my own visions, and I want to enact them, though I'd prefer not to have to fumble around in the dark with it myself, as some of my UU modding has shown. But others often have excellent ideas too, and I figure I may as well share what I do, and make a proper mod of it.
So, let me make a list of things I've thought of...

-Archery Range, a stable for Archery units. They certainly need it, as archery units outside the crossbow tend to be next to useless.

-Skirmishers: Make them a threat to axes and swords, and have archers counter them, so you actually have a reason to research archery? They'd come with Hunting(and maybe something else?), 3 or 4 strength, with some sort of sizable melee bonus, with a unique promotions tree.

-Melee Cavalry: Maybe Cataphracts, or some other generic heavy cavalry? They're really the only thing I can think of that was used heavily in a lot of different places. Civs from China to the Greek Successors to the Byzies. Iron Working+Horseback Riding required

-Tanks: Since when were tanks the unit of choice for city-raiding? How many times have you heard of tanks crushing cities beneath their treads? Last I heard, the last thing you wanted a tank to do was roll around hostile city streets....

-Helicopters: We could use a transport one. I could care less about Paratroopers, why don't we remove them and make it into a promotion? Or make it a promotion and the Paratroopers start with it, a la Marines? Yeah, that sounds decent to me.

-Leaders
Spain: Philip II? He brought Spain to its greatest glory...and of course brought it all crashing down, but we can blame that partly on bad weather.

Japan: Meiji. Like Hirohito, he's just a symbol. Unlike Hirohito, he's a positive symbol...and could actually be completely Toku's opposite. Or we could forego symbols entirely and use an actual leader....

China: Kiss protective good-bye, is all I'm saying.

Korea: I have no idea.

Maya: ''

Aztec: We'll just change him to Montezuma I and no one will notice, except we'll change the civilopedia. I hate using losers when you have winners...especially a winner with the same fricking name, and no one's going to know one Monty from the other. I hear Ahuizotl...I still need to research this stuff.

Inca: Some one before Capac, as after has the Incans getting destroyed.

Carthage: Dido? Eh...

Mali: Didn't everyone's favorite tech monger rule for 80 years and encompass both Mali's rise to prominence and its age of dominance....and then after it all went to hell? I remember reading something about it, and I think that was the gist of it.

Obviously, the expansion civs will need additional leaders as well...I'm sure I missed something too...

 

[dh_epic]

For what it's worth, the Mali empire dominated the region for a good 200-300 years. Before that was the Ghana empire, and after that was the Songhai. They pretty much fell from grace due to repeated wars with outsiders, and economic stagnation. Musa ruled for about 25 years at one of its peaks (80 years? man, that would have to be one healthy dude).

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

For what it's worth, the Mali empire dominated the region for a good 200-300 years. Before that was the Ghana empire, and after that was the Songhai. They pretty much fell from grace due to repeated wars with outsiders, and economic stagnation. Musa ruled for about 25 years at one of its peaks (80 years? man, that would have to be one healthy dude).

Oh, right. He ruled until he was in his 80s or something...that's where it came from. Silly me...I know about the other two, but it's far from being my forte...

 

[cybrxkhan]

put in Veitnam. and another Chinese leader.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

put in Veitnam. and another Chinese leader.

I'm unsure about another Chinese leader....but I am including Vietnam. I wanted two civs for Southeast Asia(and stand by that, if "Germany Version Alpha" and "Greeks who called themselves Roman" were the best they could come up with )

 

[cybrxkhan]

actually, i myself am planning a BtS mod too. but its supposed to be top secret.

you probably will finish yours first though, thats okay, cause you will get the "Boos!" first and they wont care about mine. and you shuold include another Chinese leader, and probably a Roman one too.

 

[Yakk]

The middle-east is still chock-full of unused civilizations.

Phoenicians?
Hittites?
Sumerians?
Etruscans? (they did get merged into the Romans)

Then there is the Swiss.

(the above list generated by looking at a list of important inventions, and listing civilizations I don't recognize from Civ4 Warlords).

 

[xfactor99]

A benchmark of about 10 new civilizations is good. Here are some ideas...
1. Poland (if you dont..)
2. Vietnam (Because I myself am Vietnamese, and feel as if they were immensely more significant than the Khmer)
3. A Mesopotomian civilization. The Phoenicians > Hittites, albeit I have no idea who their leader could be)
4. Israel David Ben-Gurion, perhaps? He's pretty much the only candidate if you want to consider modern Israeli figures. I would be more inclined to go with him than the mythicized accounts of the ancient Jewish kings.
5. Iroquois and/or Shawnee If you're going to get rid of the Holy Roman tag, it would be nice to get rid of the Native American one too...good job with that Firaxis
6. Siam (Mongkut)
7. Argentina, or Brazil - The Inca shouldn't be the only South American civ
8. Another African civ - The Ghana and the Songhai were both great empires, unfortunately Mali already represents that area of Africa. You could try Central Africa, Great Zimbabwe or Kingdom of the Kongo were both notable civilizations, though both are lacking in capable leaders. Or, if for post-colonial leaders, if you dont' want to use Mandela, Kwame Nkrumah was awfully influential.
9. Another European civ - A lot of choices - Austrian, Scottish, Irish, Romanian, Bulgarian, Swedish, Swiss, possibilities are endless...
10. Another Asian civ - Hmm, Sargon the Great is one of the most important people in history that hasn't been in Civ yet, maybe the Akkadian empire? Don't know if it's an important enough civilization to be considered, I don't really know what else you could add...

Either way, it's just up to you. I'd strongly suggest that you add a 3rd Chinese leader if you're still on the fence about that though - they're probably the most important civilization of all time, and that they don't have three leaders while America, England, France, and Russia do is borderline ridiculous.

 

[cybrxkhan]

2. Vietnam (Because I myself am Vietnamese, and feel as if they were immensely more significant than the Khmer)

here here! im viet too!

I'd strongly suggest that you add a 3rd Chinese leader if you're still on the fence about that though - they're probably the most important civilization of all time, and that they don't have three leaders while America, England, France, and Russia do is borderline ridiculous.

here here!

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

Oh, I love China, personally, and am generally annoyed with Western Narcissism and tendency to lump Asia together in their minds. I'm of European descent myself, so you don't need to be Asian to appreciate Asia. It's just I don't condone the practice as long as civs like Spain are being shafted, but this is a mod and I'm going to be fixing the injustice...so what the hell? I'm tempted to offer a Han emperor or a Ming one. Probably Han though, definitely the height of China's glory, in my mind...

 

[cybrxkhan]

here are a few choices:

- Taizong (Tang emperor_
- Xuanzong (Tang emperor)
- Zhu Yongle (Ming emperor)
- Taizong/Taizu - forgot which - (Song emperor)
- Wudi (Han Emperor)
- Wu Zeitian (woman emperor )
- Kangxi (Qing emperor)
- Qianlong (Qing emperor)
- Huangdi (the Yellow emperor, not QSH)

tonsa choices there! and thats just the tip of the iceberg!

 

[Ogedei_the_Mad]

Korea could use Gwanggaeto of Goguryeo or Sejong the Great of Joseon as new leaders.

 

[Fox Mccloud]

I am unhappy with the selection of both the Byzantines and the Holy Roman Empire, as, in my personal opinion, neither is a civilization at all.

Civilizations I am considering...
-At least one additional South East Asian civilization
-One additional Mesopotamian civ(Hittites, perhaps)
-At least one group to represent the Polynesians
-Poland

There has been an excellent Polish civilization mod made for warlords that I'm sure will help. Best new civilization mod ever made, imho.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

There has been an excellent Polish civilization mod made for warlords that I'm sure will help. Best new civilization mod ever made, imho.

Hah! So great minds think alike. I tried it out and was quite impressed, I must admit. It's especially useful because I have zero experience using any sort of imaging program, and I'm not so driven I would learn to do so simply to mod(though XML, like I said, is easy enough to grasp...it even refers you to the exact location of your errors )