Planting Great Engineers
- Thread starter Jelster
- Start date
Mrdarklight
Warlord
If you do the math it's probably more beneficial to plant them than to use them, but they're the only way to semi-guarantee a wonder that you need, so that's a big draw for them.
Korea especially should probably plant them, since they get +2 science on great improvements.
Korea especially should probably plant them, since they get +2 science on great improvements.
dopingman
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2009
- Messages
- 202
Considering you should never get a GE until the late stages of the game (faith bought GE) unless you play Liberty, there is always a wonder that needs a few hammers and the prod bonus comes too late at this stage. As I never really go Liberty I can't say sth about planting that early GE or spending him on a wonder (Petra *cough**cough*). GS are just way more useful and deffo worth planting one or two of those guys.
Zezima
Professional Troll
GE points from certain early wonders (Stonehenge, Pyramids, Great Wall I believe all give 1 GEP) can get you a GE fairly early in the game, especially if you manage to get two. Mayans also can get very early GEs.
I plant GEs in a number of cases:
No immediate wonders I want or already have them (Petra, Hanging Gardens, Chichen Itza), very early game Manufactory leads to lots of extra production over time
Start location with very low production (coastal/grassland/jungle starts)
Playing as Korea
Late game tech leader and can already hard build any wonder I want
Need a certain strategic resource so badly I connect it with the Manufactory (rare and usually combined with one of the above)
Mrdarklight
Warlord
Uh... what?
I think he means he has a GE and a desperate need for a resource (oil, uranium etc) and it's quick to drop a GE on it rather than wait for a worker to improve the tile.
No; I always build a World Wonder with them. On Immortal, its the only safe way to build most of the wonders. (AI gets massive production bonuses; compounded in early game by AI also starting with a worker and several techs)
I also don't tend to go after producing Great Enginners; I try to produce Great Scientists.
But I do like to pick a GE from Leaning Tower to build PT; Leaning Tower is a very low priority to the AI.
I also enjoy getting a GE from Leaning Tower. I usually try to save it for Hubble, which probably isn't a very good decision. I actually find that I get beaten to Leaning Tower a lot though.
You won't get more hammers in shorter games (330 and below) and get more raw hammers from rushing a wonder. Although unlike great scientists, where it is always better to bulb them after perhaps the first one or two, a planted engineer is better if using to to finish multiple units/buildings faster since rushing either would be a waste of hammers.
NuOmicronMu
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2013
- Messages
- 24
It used to be that I always planted them for the production bonuses, but now I'm more inclined to spend them on wonders because I know how useful it is to get a guaranteed wonder.
Cahillicus
Warlord
Probably isn't. I usually use great people on the first turn I get them(with the exception of great generals/admirals) unless I have a specific reason not to eg. wonder building in different city or want to plant manufactory on a strategic resource
I almost always build wonders with them unless there are no wonders I want to build. I am a wonder hog, though. I usually get my first after completing the whatever branch, and build Petra. Then I try to get one for Notre Dame, and I usually parlay the one I get for the tower to build the Porcelain Tower.
Zezima
Professional Troll
This is correct. And the couple of times I have done it I am pretty sure it has always been for oil to rush buy planes.
I've never planted a GE. The math really isn't that good for planted GEs or planted GMs. Actually, the math isn't good for GMs no matter how they're used, which is a real shame.
Consider: working a manufactory entails an opportunity cost that must be deducted from the bonus hammers. The minimum value of the opportunity cost is 1
or 1
, which is what you could get by improving the tile normally instead of planting the manufactor. Considering that you're not likely to get a GE until wonders cost at least 300, you would need 100 turns of manufactory production to match the immediate investment. Now assume that instead of planting the GE, you just waited for 100 turns. At this point, the wonder value of the GE should be at least 500 and probably more like 1,250 . From this value, you would need to deduct gold maintenence, but I still can't see you ever getting a better hammer result with the planted GE versus an immediate wonder or waiting for a wonder. The exceptions are when you're desperate for units or a strategic resource.
Random aside: Custom Houses are total, unadulterated garbage. They need to be fixed. They're terrible beyond words.
Consider: working a manufactory entails an opportunity cost that must be deducted from the bonus hammers. The minimum value of the opportunity cost is 1
or 1, which is what you could get by improving the tile normally instead of planting the manufactor. Considering that you're not likely to get a GE until wonders cost at least 300, you would need 100 turns of manufactory production to match the immediate investment. Now assume that instead of planting the GE, you just waited for 100 turns. At this point, the wonder value of the GE should be at least 500 and probably more like 1,250 . From this value, you would need to deduct gold maintenence, but I still can't see you ever getting a better hammer result with the planted GE versus an immediate wonder or waiting for a wonder. The exceptions are when you're desperate for units or a strategic resource. Random aside: Custom Houses are total, unadulterated garbage. They need to be fixed. They're terrible beyond words.
Yes customs houses seem bad, and GM in general can be crap if they have to run a gauntlet of barbarians or enemies to get to the nearest CS.
I wouldn't pay maintenance on a GE for 100 turns, when it could have been speeding my production of everything else + wonders the whole time.
I wouldn't pay maintenance on a GE for 100 turns, when it could have been speeding my production of everything else + wonders the whole time.
No, I wouldn't either. I'm not suggesting that anyone do so. The point is merely that the hammer value of a planted GE is poor compared to the opportunity cost. Maintenence for 100 turns would be 200-300 gold, no? If 3 gold equals 1 hammer, that still means that holding onto a GE for 100 turns gives vastly higher hammers than planting. But I would tend to agree that spending the GE now is the best option. GE-->Hanging Garden = 6 food and a free garden, which is way better than 3 hammers from planting.
