"Pokrovka" is surely not Scythian city name

[Loaf Warden]

Actually, we're a little better off than that. There has been extensive work done on translating Olmec 'glyphs' and phrases. Trouble is, there is frequently no context for what they are talking about, so paragraph-sized meanings are hard to glean, and as far as I know, they haven't uncovered anything resembling a city or place-name. Result: you could end up with a 'city list' in which the cities are named "Jaguar", "turtle", "serpent", "wading through water", and other words/phrases that have nothing to do with the original cities at all - the only 'advantage' they have is that they are actual Olmec words, but that's it, and it's not much...

And even then, we're stuck calling them the "Olmec", a name given by the Aztecs to a people who, in their own time, were living in the same region that the ancient culture had lived in. Presumably the ancient Olmec had their own name for themselves, but it would not have been "Olmec", and we have no idea what it would have been. There's no way to represent the Olmec in-game--or anywhere else--without fudging the names.

 

[Bad Wolf]

This is a great source of potential Scythian 'cities' but, alas, does not have many precise Scythian city place names.

The entire list has just six:
Portmei
Roxanaki
Gilea - a sacred site
Napit
Palakion
Habei
...the last three being Fortresses built by the Scythians in the Crimea area

BUT there are also a lot of clan/tribe names which could be applied to settlements in Scythia:
Avhatai
Agaroi
Alizons
Amador
Amurgion
Arimoi
Assaioi
Katiars
Palos
Paralates
Skithins
Skolots
Tiragets

AND there is an even longer list of Scythian names for rivers in their territory which could be adapted to city names:
Arar, Arax
Herr
Hypanis
Hipakiris
Daix
Borysthenes
Lik
Oap
Naparis
Ordess
Pantikapeum
Porata
Silis
Sirgis
Tanais
Tiarant
Tiras

And finally, don't forget the mythical founder of the Scythians, whose name could certainly be applied to a city: Targitai

Out of all those, even Firaxis should be able to come up with a set of city names that are actually derived from Scythian words, titles, tribes, clans, and places ...

Thank you for this, I'll probably end up using a lot of these. A lot of them sound really cool!

 

[Zaarin]

Actually, we're a little better off than that. There has been extensive work done on translating Olmec 'glyphs' and phrases. Trouble is, there is frequently no context for what they are talking about, so paragraph-sized meanings are hard to glean, and as far as I know, they haven't uncovered anything resembling a city or place-name. Result: you could end up with a 'city list' in which the cities are named "Jaguar", "turtle", "serpent", "wading through water", and other words/phrases that have nothing to do with the original cities at all - the only 'advantage' they have is that they are actual Olmec words, but that's it, and it's not much...

Still, is that simply deciphering word meanings or do we have any phonetic knowledge of the language(s) that the Olmecs spoke at all? I've seen it suggested they spoke a Mixe-Zoque language, but I presumed that was based on location rather than direct linguistic evidence.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Thank you for this, I'll probably end up using a lot of these. A lot of them sound really cool!

You're welcome, but I just extracted suitable Scythian words from this post:

ICould this overview be a better source of Scythian city names?

Alphons is the one who found the infoI just 8'converted' it into a 'Civ-friendly' list!

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Still, is that simply deciphering word meanings or do we have any phonetic knowledge of the language(s) that the Olmecs spoke at all? I've seen it suggested they spoke a Mixe-Zoque language, but I presumed that was based on location rather than direct linguistic evidence.

I couldn't tell you - my linguistic training amounted to one class 50+ years ago in college, and then a lot of 'practical experience' courtesy of the US Army sending me to places where English wasn't spoken! My impression from what I've read is that most of it is reconstructing written words and phrases from 'Olmec' glyphs which are presumed to be similar to later Mayan glyphs for which there are translations - all very 'theoretical' and I'm not certain that they have any correlation to the sound of the words and the language at all.
I do know, since I was doing the reading trying to come up with an 'Olmec' city list, that the linguistic work that has been done was little or no help for that at all!

 

[Zaarin]

I couldn't tell you - my linguistic training amounted to one class 50+ years ago in college, and then a lot of 'practical experience' courtesy of the US Army sending me to places where English wasn't spoken! My impression from what I've read is that most of it is reconstructing written words and phrases from 'Olmec' glyphs which are presumed to be similar to later Mayan glyphs for which there are translations - all very 'theoretical' and I'm not certain that they have any correlation to the sound of the words and the language at all.
I do know, since I was doing the reading trying to come up with an 'Olmec' city list, that the linguistic work that has been done was little or no help for that at all!

Cool. I have no formal training, but historical linguistics is a hobby of mine.

 

[Manifold]

back to the topic again:

I scooped up hope while I watched the trailer of the Roman Empire. There was a city name missing, so I guess they are still not finished with the city lists.

That means: the capital of the Scythians still can get an atmospheric and reasonable name

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

back to the topic again:

I scooped up hope while I watched the trailer of the Roman Empire. There was a city name missing, so I guess they are still not finished with the city lists.

That means: the capital of the Scythians still can get an atmospheric and reasonable name

Dunno about the rest of you, but one of the reasons I'm posting on these forums is, hopefully, to get some last-minute changes made to the so far revealed Civ VI!

 

[Alphons Rodulfo]

Dunno about the rest of you, but one of the reasons I'm posting on these forums is, hopefully, to get some last-minute changes made to the so far revealed Civ VI!

For me it is too! Otherwise it would just be complaining, wouldn't it?

 

[zobra]

They way OP puts it, it's almost like they had a town named ''New Port'' or something similar. So i understand his gripes.

And it's Attila's speach was real words jumbled up, they where just jibberish. So why couldn't they just make a jibberish town name instead?

 

[Guandao]

I caught some Scythian city names from the video today:

Issyk

Chertomlyk

Pazyryk

Kul Ora

Myriv

Kostromskaya

these all seem to be the modern names of Scythian archeological sites...

 

[Zaarin]

I caught some Scythian city names from the video today:

Issyk

Chertomlyk

Pazyryk

Kul Ora

Myriv

Kostromskaya

these all seem to be the modern names of Scythian archeological sites...

So...we can give the Polynesians city names based on entire islands, but naming Scythian cities after Scythian tribes is too much to ask?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

So...we can give the Polynesians city names based on entire islands, but naming Scythian cities after Scythian tribes is too much to ask?

Civilization VI:
Step One:
Buy/Download the game
Step Two:
Modify the %^$#&*^ Scythian City List
Step Three:
Play Game without Snarling at the Screen...

 

[Zaarin]

Civilization VI:
Step One:
Buy/Download the game
Step Two:
Modify the %^$#&*^ Scythian City List
Step Three:
Play Game without Snarling at the Screen...

Assuming mods actually work offline this time. Mods never worked for me in Civ5 except when I was connected to the internet.

 

[Manifold]

I hope it is possible to change the base files of the game specifically the city lists so that I did not care about anymore. I don´t like this mod-system for just basic optimization to enjoy the playing.

 

[Alphons Rodulfo]

Yeah, I too would like the basic game to be as good as possible and not rely on mods too much. My reason is that I like to play GoTM games, which typically do not allow any mods. I can imagine mods being probematic in multiplayer mode too.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Assuming mods actually work offline this time. Mods never worked for me in Civ5 except when I was connected to the internet.

Who said anything about Mods? I go right in and change the City List in the files - been doing that since Civ II, and it looks like I'll be doing the same thing in Civ VI. Keep a copy of the original city list in a separate file so I can re-insert in case some problem arises later, but have never had to do that.

Mods are for changing Big Stuff, like the Tech Tree and Units, which so far it looks like they have mangled in Civ VI as badly or worse than they did in Civ V.

 

[Guandao]

Is the placement of Kurgans a reliable indicator that Scythian settlements were nearby? Just curious.

I hope they change Mongolia's list when they add them to the game. Civ5 city list for Mongolia was bad, it had Tabriz (a Persian city), Tiflis (aka Tbilisi, capital of Georgia), and Hsia (not a city, but a reference to Western Xia, which was conquered by the Mongols). But no Khanbalik or Xanadu!

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Is the placement of Kurgans a reliable indicator that Scythian settlements were nearby? Just curious.

Maybe yes, maybe no. There is very little evidence of an actual settlement near any of the Kurgans, but then permanent evidence would be hard to come by for a nomadic lifestyle - fire pits and tent-pole holes tend to disappear after a few years, let alone many centuries!

And, of course, there is a lot of evidence around Europe for religious 'monuments' and 'tombs' like the Kurgans that are not associated with settlements or cities at all - Stonehenge, the other standing stones of northern Europe, the Pyramid-tombs and later Royal Tombs in Egypt, etc. It's speculation on very little evidence ...

Add it to the list - With the possible exception of the 'standard' Civs: Rome, Greece, Germany, France, USA, Britain, etc. that all built cities and occupied the same cities over time, with the same city dominating as a capital for most of that time, the Civ Game tends to make a hash out of 'city lists' - see the Iroquois, Lakota/Souix, Aztec, as well as the Mongol ...

And let's not get started on the 'Civs' that are based on cultures rather than nations, or nations whose modern 'capital' and city list don't match most of their historical antecedents - like the Chinese, 'Indian', Polynesian ...

 

[Tsuchinoko]

I hope they change Mongolia's list when they add them to the game. Civ5 city list for Mongolia was bad, it had Tabriz (a Persian city), Tiflis (aka Tbilisi, capital of Georgia), and Hsia (not a city, but a reference to Western Xia, which was conquered by the Mongols). But no Khanbalik or Xanadu!

I think 'Hsia' was actually meant to be 'Ning-Hsia' (Ningxia). For all the Civ V civs prior to the Korean DLC the city lists were just copied over from Civ IV, though because of the way they did it some mistakes were introduced - usually missing part of the name off. The same thing happened with 'Machu' for the Inca - it should have been 'Machu Picchu'.