Police mod v1.0 for BTS 3.13

[frekk]

But, police should not be just cannon fodder, as they do have the capability of mounting a good fight under pressure. At such times heroes can emerge.

Not to denigrate the police, but they cannot mount a "good fight" against military units. They aren't equipped or trained to deal with professional armed forces. If a city in the real world is attacked by an infantry division and there are no military units present to defend it, the police - no matter how numerous they may be in that particular city - are not going to be effective in preventing them from seizing that city. Sometimes police forces are seen delaying attacking military units, alongside civil defense forces (this happened in the war in Yugoslavia often, for instance) but they don't have any real hope to do more than slow attackers down. They may have good marksmanship but so do infantrymen and they are equipped much better for the role. They have mortar teams, anti-tank and anti-personnel weapons, combat engineers with demolitions equipment, grenades, rockets, bayonets, white phosphorous, flamethrowers, etc etc etc. Even mustard gas, depending on the time period. Police have pistols and maybe a handful of automatic weapons to go around.

Just to give an example, consider a guy with an assault rifle is holed up in a bungalow and vowing not to go down without a fight. For the police, this is a major thing; half the department will be down there, they'll have the best men and their most trained people on the case. For most policemen it would be a once in a lifetime experience. SWAT handle this stuff more often, but how much of a police force consists of SWAT? 1% maybe? For the infantry in a wartime situation, he's no more than a pest and far from the most threatening thing they'll encounter. "Williams, go toss a grenade in that window, we have to get moving" sort of thing. They are equipped and trained for entirely different sorts of combat and entirely different rules of engagement.

 

[OrionVeteran]

Not to denigrate the police, but they cannot mount a "good fight" against military units. They aren't equipped or trained to deal with professional armed forces.

Are you suggesting a change to the police values in v1.01?

Orion Veteran

 

[frekk]

No I'm just blathering

Don't make any changes. I'm just discussing police in a military situation. It's a game; I figure everyone will probably use this unit as they see fit, and if they think it's too weak or too strong, they'll probably change it.

What matters is the graphics, and they're really very good. I find they fit something I really needed in my game, which for me, is a very cheap unit with low (like noncombat) maintenance to provide military happiness for police states.

 

[Zuul]

You should have a early & late police unit (+ the militia).

 

[frekk]

Or city watch. The watch system is the direct predecessor of the police. On the other hand, city watch didn't deal with large disturbances like riots, for that, militias (or the military) were used. City watch would be the predecessor of the beat cop or patrol car, militias (and military units) would be the predecessor of the riot cop.

Could also do another line of units based on irregulars of all sorts - eg. peasant levy to militia to paramilitary. Like a pro-establishment counter to the guerrilla.

 

[Zuul]

And adding things like criminality, fires and such .

 

[mamba]

Police are professional law enforcement officers and they receive specialized marksmanship training that makes them a cut above everyone else.

everyone else here being average people on the streets, not professional military

Police see a lot of violence every day and they have to be the best at what they do, as they protect and serve their respective communities and cities. Therefore, IMO, I'm not inclined to lower the 25% effectiveness advantage the police have over other gunpowder units.

must be the difference between the US and Europe, most policemen here don't see much violence, let alone gunfights (they still are better trained than your average citizen though)

The military also receives highly specialized training, only their toys are far more powerful. Hence, I lowered the strength value for the police from 14 down to only 8, nearly half.

that is why I would have gone with -25%, they have weaker arms and armor and have less combat experience (solving crimes / entering houses is not the same thing as fighting a war). The same can be achieved by weakening them.

8 with no minus is almost the same as 10 with -25%, so there is very little difference between what I suggested and what you used imo. Mine would be better against hooligans (read warriors wielding clubs) though

 

[Ninja2]

I've given this unit some thought, and, respectfully, I don't think this will be a unit I'll try out. I don't think it fits with the scale of CIV. I believe that an Infantry unit represents something at least the size of a Battalion, which historically is anywhere from 500-1500 men. What is the police unit supposed to represent? I don't see a combined, coordinated defense from a police force, which normally operate in two-man teams, and only rarely operate as a larger unit, as believable. And the environment that police operate in in real life, are, in game terms, restricted to cities or cottage/hamlet/village/suburb type terrain. But that does not restrict the player or AI to place these units anywhere. So you might encounter a 'police' unit fortified in a forest, which is just too weird!

I think the resistance effects on newly occupied cities can also represent policemen opposing invaders. And the jail building represents the effects of police under non-war circumstances.

 

[troytheface]

I have been looking at various unit creations and stumbled on police and swat units and wondered of what use they could be.

this modest mod is clever, adding a new element to the game.

I suggest just having Constitution and Rifling as prereqs.

(I suggest drop Industerialism-the most historically accurate choice according to your research-only because it comes late- and have a Jail required to build one)

Not sure if there is a way that having a policeman could reduce the number of "your farm got pillaged by bandits" kind of messages.
Innovative mod-good job.

 

[frekk]

I've given this unit some thought, and, respectfully, I don't think this will be a unit I'll try out. I don't think it fits with the scale of CIV. I believe that an Infantry unit represents something at least the size of a Battalion, which historically is anywhere from 500-1500 men. What is the police unit supposed to represent? I don't see a combined, coordinated defense from a police force, which normally operate in two-man teams, and only rarely operate as a larger unit, as believable.

Not entirely true. Police mass in very large numbers to deal with riots and strikes, often in the thousands.

As well, police forces in warzones have often operated rather differently than police forces in areas that have not been under immediate threat for decades. Police forces have in some cases been the backbone of civil defence and militia units. In many cases, police in conflict zones will have a dual role as both police and light infantry/paramilitary (often referred to as "security forces" in the media).

And the environment that police operate in in real life, are, in game terms, restricted to cities or cottage/hamlet/village/suburb type terrain. But that does not restrict the player or AI to place these units anywhere. So you might encounter a 'police' unit fortified in a forest, which is just too weird!

If that bothered you, it might be possible to give them 0 movement.

I plan on using it because I feel there is a need for a unit that can be used specifically by police states and other civics which allow for military happiness, but isn't much use otherwise. A major city, lacking happiness resources, doesn't need to have 7 infantry units stationed there on a permanent basis just to prevent unhappiness, there should be some other unit - a cheaper unit, and one that costs less to maintain - that can fulfill that role.

I'm thinking of giving them a 4 strength, because as you say, they should be of little use mounting a coordinated defence - although police are often part of civil defence forces, which can at least delay attackers, although they have little hope of stopping them.

 

[OrionVeteran]

This modest mod is clever, adding a new element to the game. Innovative mod-good job.

Thanks, but I can't take full credit for it. I pulled the skins from an an old russian mod composition and then tweaked the settings to meet our needs.

I suggest just having Constitution and Rifling as prereqs. (I suggest drop Industerialism-the most historically accurate choice according to your research-only because it comes late- and have a Jail required to build one)

Industerialism is where the policeman is currently located on the tech tree. If not located there, where on the tech tree would you suggest we locate the police unit?

V/R,

Orion Veteran

 

[troytheface]

I would suggest Constitution which enables Jails which are required to build a Policeman. (unity)

 

[OrionVeteran]

You should have a early & late police unit (+ the militia).

Do you know of any skins that can be used as a starting basis for creating a militia unit or an early police unit? I still need the python code that would give the police unit the capability to reduce city unrest or perhaps war weariness.

V/R,

Orion Veteran

 

[OrionVeteran]

I would suggest Constitution which enables Jails which are required to build a Policeman. (unity)

I really thought about the Constitution tech, as a place to introduce the police unit. However, as you said, I was compelled to be historically accurate by choosing Industrialism. History clearly indicates that the need for an organized police force didn't really happen until the the time of the Industrial Revolution. We had jails long before then. On the other hand, let's consider making the jail a prerequisit building in a city before you can produce a policeman. Such a prerequisit would defeat the purpose of trying to produce a quick unit for law and order. Without a jail in town, we might have to put criminals on the 3:10 to Yuma train.

Very Respectfully,

Orion Veteran

 

[Xenomorph]

Do you know of any skins that can be used as a starting basis for creating a militia unit or an early police unit? I still need the python code that would give the police unit the capability to reduce city unrest or perhaps war weariness.

V/R,

Orion Veteran

I believe the Minuteman model would be a good base for a militia unit. For earlier militia (pre-gunpowder) I'd suggest a pikeman (with reduced armor, if possible) using something like a pitchfork.

 

[troytheface]

I appreciate the mod- i used it and the balance is fine (8 strength as it is now-)
in so far as Jail- didn't consider that as a prerequesite it defeated the purpose of a cheap unit-

how about a Jail is to a Policeman as a Barracks is to a military unit.

Regardless, it is still a superior graphic and gameplay unit rather than an un-upgraded ancient unit.

 

[OrionVeteran]

I am in the middle of testing the Minuteman unit, which I developed last night. What I need, before I turn out an update to the Police Mod, are your recommendations for attributes. My current line of thinking is:

Minuteman
Strength is 6
First Strike Chance
+25% City Defense
Prerequisit Rifling
Upgrades to Police

But, I am open to suggestions. OK let's have your ideas.

V/R,

Orion Veteran

 

[OrionVeteran]

I appreciate the mod- i used it and the balance is fine (8 strength as it is now-)
in so far as Jail- didn't consider that as a prerequesite it defeated the purpose of a cheap unit.

for testing it out.

how about a Jail is to a Policeman as a Barracks is to a military unit.

The barracks provides a promotion for new units including the police. I really don't see why a jail should provide another promotion.

Regardless, it is still a superior graphic and gameplay unit rather than an un-upgraded ancient unit.

See my comments on the Minuteman unit.

V/R,

Orion Veteran

 

[OrionVeteran]

I believe the Minuteman model would be a good base for a militia unit.

I'm testing the Minuteman unit now.

For earlier militia (pre-gunpowder) I'd suggest a pikeman (with reduced armor, if possible) using something like a pitchfork.

With only a pitch fork for a weapon, that pre-gunpowder Pikeman wouldn't last very long in combat.

V/R,

Orion Veteran

 

[OrionVeteran]

Version 1.02 has been released - see first post.

I have been considering making the Explorer unit upgradable to the Minuteman unit. Upgrade progression would be:

Scout -> Explorer -> Minuteman -> Police

Any thoughts or comments?

V/R,

Orion Veteran