Post-Apopolytic Game

I really like this idea, right now I'm doing a RPC so I don't have time to play at the monument, but I will try to play this in a week or two. Thanks for sharing!
 
1 small problem with China... its the late game, and China has a HUGE problem (remember them? the ones with Fission, Fibre Optics, Radio, Assmebly Line, and Refrigeration as starting techs?)



Me thinks China thinks he has a Tech-lead ;) I will love trading Assembly line for thousands of noob techs...
 
Just an update of one course of action of the SECOND saved-game...

On the separated continent (the continent I am on): I signed a defensive pact with Cyrus, right after he (finally) built the internet, and shot up from 4th-5th to being around MY power... However, he broke that agreement, and declared war on Isabella. Then I was suddenly MUCH weaker (and my desperate attempts to stop the gold flooding in by REXing, and spreading out my defences started seeming very bad). In that SAME turn, the Ethiopians declared war. Luckily, my main attack force (4 Calvalry and 4 cannon) was already on its way, as I expected them to backstab me after the LAST ethiopian war.

Anyway, I defend against their Oramo warriors. I then notice WHY they are so far behind. They liberate 5 cities (!) to Pacal, and they still have 1 oversea city. Their overseas maintainance must have been crippling!!

I then build MY army, and launch a dedicated counter-attack (now with 6 calvalry, and 5 ARTILLARY (ooo, yeah). I have already captured 3 cities (1 holy city without a shrine), destroyed one (the culture was seriously bad for my newly captured cities), and am in the process of capturing all 4 remaining cities. I am also building a "Worst-case scenario" war-fleet to plan an amphibious counter-attack from Isabella, but I hope it will never come to that (Isabella once captured a city, which was guarded by a grenader. It died to a CROSSBOWMAN, and boy was I pissed. I killed it two turns later, as that crossbowman killed ANOTHER grenadier...) Isabella has long since stopped war, but I still don't trust her... Of course, I COULD always attack China.

Anyway, that sums it up for MY continent. We have a new buddy, Pacal :D, however he is so weak, it is unlikely to do anything...

For the other continent: China REFUSED to give me Assembly Line, so when the ottomans decided to declare war on China, and asked me (and Isabella) to attack, I accepted. Then I realised a SMALL problem about my plan to attack the Ottoman cities on my continent.

The Ottomans start with Advanced Flight. That means, once they have Flight (which they do, obviously), they can jump STRAIGHT to gunships, which they have done in FORCE. China was torn apart by probably 20+ gunships, and some Riflemen, or Infantry, came in to pick up the peices. China made a good fight to defend, and 3 Knights can kill a Gunship, apparently :p However, China capitulated after rapidly losing 3 or 4 cities, and I think they are getting TONS of free techs from the Ottomans... There are two Gunships guarding the Ottoman cities on our island... SAM infantry are a MUST, and I am spamming them like anything :p

Finally, I am most worried about Cyrus. The Internet makes him a VERY strong Space-race contender, but I don't want to make an enemy out of him, as I don't have a ridiculously high tech-rate compared to him... I might build the Manhatten Project (The UN can't stop nukes, as there is no diplo victory) later on, but again, thats gonna be tough, as if I have nukes, he will too, and I don't want my core cities nuked... I want to capture the entire continent (minus Cyrus), declare war on the Chinese, and attack when (and if) they are really undefended, and if the space-race gets tough with Cyrus, nuke him, and hope my food corporation really shines...

More immediately, WW is a KILLER. Every city I take makes 1 more citizen unhappy in EVERY city. I have stopped research in Flight, to focus on Facism, but WW is INSANE. I mean, the AI gets INSANE discounts, or maybe a total all-out cap, on WW. Grrr, it annoys me.
 
Wow... another update.

It seems as if this style of gameplay STRONGLY favors the AI. In fact, I may leap to the conclusion that this drops the difficulty by an entire level!!

I have NEVER had an empire this large. I normally get intimidated by other peoples armies, and say "I will win this war, but I will be so damaged by it, its not worth it". However, in this game, the AI gets 'stuck' and refuses to research its own techs. Pacal and Zara both got 'stuck' at muskets, and China at longbows.

Now for war. I have capitulated Pacal and Zara, and am looking eagerly at Cyrus. I have tons of espionage against him, so its good to see what I am up against.

Most of Cyruses defenders are VERY WEAK. He often has 1 or 2 weak units (Axes / Longbows), and one powerful unit (Marine/Infantry/Machine Gun).

An amphibious assault on his capital is a POSSIBLITY. I have NEVER launched an amphibious attack before. It is both the Islamic holy city, and the Aluminium Co headquarters, making it a VERY NICE gold city. Add on the fact that it is the most likely location of the fabled internet (which I need badly to win a space-race victory), that is a nice possiblity.

An alternative is to rush in with tons of tanks, down the southern border. I will need TONS of air-cover in the form of bombers (probably 3) and fighters (probably 5) for this method to work, as well as my hardened calvary division to break up anti-tanks. Ideally, this has the benifit of reducing cultural pressure from his neighbouring cities.

Here is the save, and my battle plans. Is there a way (other than WB) to see where buildings like the Internet exist? I don't want to use ALL my EP on him.

Oh, and I am TRYING to get a great merchant for sushi. However, the last guy was a great SCIENTIST (who I plan to make a golden age, right after the Cyrus war), who is next to useless in the late-game.

China has renounced the protection of Suliman, (somehow... I don't quite understand HOW he did that... I thought he capitulated...), in what was generally regarded as the dumbest move ever. He still has only muskets, making him as advanced as Pacal and Zara when I crushed them with EASE.

I am looking forward to the war against Cyrus, if only because of the fact that it will be the most engaging war with modern weapons I have ever encountered.

War plans: (Ignore the red sheild)


Turn 1, launch an tank/Calvalry rush on the fort 2 tiles away (red arrow) (guarded by a lone grenader) Air-drop 4 paratroopers, and hope like MAD one gets through the heavy anti-air. Do NOT engage the enemy, but keep 8 planes stationed in defence (green sheilds on nearby cities)
Battleships reduce enemy defences to nothing, and 8 marines storm Perselopis (Blue arrow)

Turn 2: Paratroopers, tanks, and calvalry move south-west, so reinforcements can't attack them easily (red arrow). (The original plan had this army recover for 1 turn, however this isn't neccessery). Planes rotate, to make room for 3 bombers in each city (for 6 bombers, and 10 fighters total, green arrows pointing away from battle) Marines fortify (blue sheild), while the battleships move east to bombard the defences of Ecbatana (sp.? ) (blue arrow)

Turn 3: Bombers air-strike the troops, tanks roll in, calvalry take care of what is left. The two major cities held, the red troops can move north, while the blue troops can head west. The calvary/tank army can have bomber support, while the blue army can have artillary support.

Keep the circled cities, and raze the crossed out cities (ease off the cultural pressure)


This is only meant to CRIPPLE Cyrus, and capture, or raze, The Internet (the one thing holding me back from an easy space-race victory). Its not meant to make a domination victory...

Are they good?

[Edit]To pull this MASSIVE attack off, I need... ooo...

4 Tanks <2 Already>
8 Calvalry <8 already>
8 Marines <1 Already>
16 Fighters <None extra>
6 Bombers <None yet>
6 Battleships <--- This is going to be the hard part... I guess I will have to use the gold to upgrade my Ship Of The Line army to get 4 of them.

It will be a good 10 turns before I can declare war... ooo scary...[/Edit]
 
When it says, "here is the save" - where is it?

I'd normally try to find wonders by checking the Top 5 Cities list, or looking at the cities at a close zoom & trying to spot the buildings.

Thinking about it, though, isn't the Internet a national project? That might mean that it isn't located in a city, but is owned by Cyrus himself... someone else probably knows whether I'm talking rubbish or not.
 
Here it is, of course :p

I forgot, sorry. I won't touch it for another 24 hours or so, as I have TONS of work to do :( So you have plenty of time to say that that plan will never work :p

Also, the Internet is a WORLD project, not a national one. This means only one can exist at one time, but I have always wondered WHY its a PROJECT, and not a WONDER... maybe projects are 'un-capturable'??

And Cyrus's cities aren't powerful enough to be on the top 5 cities list. And The Internet doesn't actually have a city name, just the name of the country that built it...
 
Ooo, scary.

This is REALLY bad. I was right when I said Cyrus had "Obsolete" units. However, numbers REALLY count for a war.



This means I won't be able to get a first-strike advantage. DANG!! I wonder if the cruise missiles could kill my precious transports... but that naval force SHOULD be able to withstand the cruise missile barrage, and the destroyers (My Ship of the Lines don't updgrade to Battleships, they go to Destroyers...) should intercept the air-troops...

I only have 8 fighters, but that should be sufficent. My main concern is cruise missiles. If they don't fall for the bait, and try and destroy my navy, and instead deploy to Ecubana, to blow up my land-based army, Im going to be REALLY up the creek without a paddle...

Because of a slip of the mouse, I have promoted all my calvalry, except for two, to shock. Again, another small mistake. Not worth reloading over, as all the calvalry are designed to die in this war, anyway :p

If Cyrus deploys the cruise missiles, then I think I have a 60% chance of getting the capital, and a 50% chance of getting Ecubana. Otherwise, I say its a 20% chance for the capital, and a 100% chance for Ecubana...

In other news, China is now Isabella's vassal. Also, I gifted a city to Ethiopia (it was a suckful city, and prevented him from un-vassalising...), and donated TONS of techs to those guys, as they were falling far behind. Cyrus also has Sids Sushi Co., which I WANT BADLY, as it is only a matter of time before the nukes fall, and thats the only way I will survive...

All in all, I'm FREAKING SCARED of this war... its possibly the first war I will lose!! I will spam some anti-tanks, and then some infantry, which should bunker up the weaker border cities... and this is the reason I don't go into Conquest victories, I hate wars :p (Well, I will go to war, if it will be harder to fight them economically, than militarily...)

Wish me luck. The save-game is attached. I will move the northern workers to a safer place, deploy the bombers to the city with the new airport, and then declare war. The cruise missiles (all 3) will plunge into the capital, and then the artillery will storm the beaches, doing a TINY amount of damage. Then the marines will attack, destroying everything but the non-combat units, the missiles, and a couple of calvalry and the axeman. The calvalry will attack the infantry on that fort, and the paratroopers will try and dodge the fighters)

Two questions: I have 7 paratroopers. Each have a 30% chance of evading the fighters. There are two fighters.

Do the fighter interception rates stack? IE. Is there a 30% chance of my troops landing, or is there only a 9% chance (0.3*0.3). If its the former, I should land 2, maybe 3. If its the latter, I will be lucky just to get one... :( If its the latter, I may do a fighter sweep first, and move the SAM infantry, but if its the former, then I will just keep the fighters as anti-bomber protection...

Finally, do you think my marines will die between the first and second turns of the war? If so, then I am gonna be sad, but at least I will destroy a fair bit of units early on :D
 
OK, that plan went out the window, not because I failed, but because I was too successful, and I STILL haven't found the Internet >.<

I have captured 5 cities, including the capital. I seriously need more funds, so as soon as the miltery presence of the Persians dies down, I will get my HUGE army of workers to transform all the captured Persian cities into commerce cities. After the :mad: is killed. Which seems like its not going to go away any time soon...

That said, I can possibly spam my corps into my 'allies', for some extra gold. Its 4 gold per city with each corporation. Also, most cities STILL don't have courthouses, so that another thing I need...

I have focused my ENTIRE espionage powers into finding that flippin' Internet... its REALLY annoying me.

Oh, and both Spain and the Ottomans both declared war. There is a possible bug, I saw, where units inside transports wasn't visible... why couldn't I see Isabella's cargo in the ships??

The captured Mayan cities are likely to flip back, and if the commerce situation doesn't rapidly change, then I might have to give them back volanterily...

Oh well. Here is the save. The war was very nice, and the air-superiority is paying off (I finally won out, after spamming TONS of fighters, and then spending close to 3000 :gold: to upgrade them all to Jet Fighters :D )

I am the only person with a space-ship part, but as long as Cyrus has the Internet, I CANNOT get a tech-lead, so I CANNOT win a space-race victory...
 
Actually, you can win a space-race victory while Cyrus has the Internet. Just make sure that he has no good production cities left, and he won't be a threat any more.

So, that has to be your objective in this war: take his 'core' cities, all the most productive ones, and then he won't be a threat. It's also conceivable that he'll vassalise by then.
 
Well... Suliman has built the manhatten project, so nukes are available. And with no diplo victory enabled, FINALLY, I may see a nuclear war.

However, there is a small problem. 2 turns after I finished the war against Cyrus (after capturing 7 cities!!), I adopted universal suffrage, in order to rebuild my production cities. However, 1 turn after I jumped out of anarchy, who declares war on me, but Isabella.

Isabellas attack was pathetic. She had 2 bombers, 2 airships, 2 fighters, an infantry, and a calvalry on the offensive. She also had some 15+ frigates in her city, obviously to get massive naval superiority. In defence, she had a paratrooper, a handful of marines, 2 or 3 calvalry, and those frigates. In 2 turns (!) I managed to get my (now MASSIVE) attack force, of 12 tanks, 2 gunships, and 10+ mobile artillery, and 2 mobile SAMs to counter-attack, and capture ANOTHER of Cyruses old cities.

Now, I need some battleships (as Cyrus killed all of mine...), and spread my tanks out. I also need approximately 10~12 mobile SAM to kill all the gunships.

SDI is under construction, and around 7 turns away. Cyrus has no uranium, so I am safe from nukes on his side. HOWEVER, Isabella has nukes, and unfortunately, I only have 2 airships patrolling the ocean to see any subs.

After looking through EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE of Cyrus' cities, due to hyper-espionage, I have come to the conclusion that the Internet is a non-capturable/non-razable project. Which sucks, TBH.

However, I have reduced Cyrus to just 2 major production cities. If he DARES declare war on me again, I will be ready (He is currently spamming gun-ships, so I need mobile SAMs ASAP). Space-race is OUT for him... But Wang Kon is starting to REALLY get annoying with HIS space race, out-doing me by 3 thrusters ALREADY. I have 6 potential high-production cities, but I also need LOTS of Mobile SAM, so that means I'm only running on 1 (and even then, while the SDI is being built, not even that!!) city.

Finally, I may need some tactical nukes... if Isabella nukes me, then the Ottomans and the Koreans will get pissed off at her, and probably declare war on them. If that happens, then I will need to launch a counter-attack with several subs, and nuke her west-coast. I currently have 1. Ideally, I would have 9 or so. However, I can't win the game by building military so much... I need SPACE-SHIP PARTS.

Here is the save. I promise not to play it for at LEAST 8 hours (this is a promise to myself, not to you. I have lots of housework to do, and me being me, I never get around to doing it when there is a potential nuclear war to be fought over :p)

Im playing TERRIBLY in the late-game, simply because managing such a huge empire is taxing on the brain. As a result, some cities are less-than-optimal.

Oh, I have broadway now :D Yay for capturing wonders :D
 
Quick thing:

The Internet is a Project, like the Manhattan Project and Apollo Program. Projects cannot be captured by another Civilization; they are simply destroyed. Thus, you won't be able to 'get' the Internet.
 
Isabella is a naval NIGHTMARE

She has spammed SO MANY ships. My 3 destroyers, 3 Battleships (1 Killed in Action), 1 sub, and 1 attack sub (1 Killed in action), and 4 transports are no match to her 20+ destroyers, and 20+ transports, and 1 carrier.

But I am amphibious attacking her city. The one she (recently) took from ME!. This is quite sad, TBH, but I fear that the enemy ARTILLERY is gonna be hard to destroy. The amphibious penalty is HUGE!!

I might launch an attack from miles away... that might be smarter, but that will still make me a sitting duck from her 4 bombers... I just hope my destroyers and 2 mobile SAMs will hold out...

I am installing a new mod (a combination of two favorites of mine: Not-another-next-war mod, and Revolutions mod). My next game will involve this mod, so its gonna be REAL fun :D

But for now I will play this game to completion. I would normally just end this game now, as the stress is getting to me. I don't like the end-game until AFTER I have won/lost, as otherwise it just gets too stressful...

Isabella is a bi*** however. Seriously, how am I supposed to win space race with her trying to kill me? I just want her to nuke me, so that Suliman and Wang Kon would declare war on her (-1 you nuked our friend FTW)... Otherwise I am powerless... I can't defend against her without a navy. And I can't defend against Cyrus without surpurflous use of the mobile SAM... and I can't build land units, naval units AND Space-ship parts -.-
 
Well... here is the summary.

2 turns after that save, I dropped off all my units, just out of reach of isabella's units. The next turns the bombs dropped...

On my ships. And my coal mine (OMG!! I just lost one of 6 (!) coal sources! I am going to lose [/sarcasm] My units were safe. The next turn, I moved my entire SoD into the captured city. It was largely abandoned, most of the artillery had been moved away. I captured it, and then looked south.

2 infantry, and nearly 15 artillery were racing towards my vassal! If I let them capture a city, they would SURELY flip to Isabella, and then I would have MUCH more problems on my hands... I HAD to defend them.

I managed to pull a modern armor and a gunship out of my ... cities. I had left them there AGES ago, in the Incan war. So, using those two units, I destroyed the two infantry, leaving only artillary. Which, luckily, couldn't take a city.

Now I looked east, to Ethopia. Unlike the Incans, the Ethopians REALLY liked building infantry. There was over 16 infantry (and my machine gun) in the city. However, Isabella was attempting to attack THAT city too, from Hittite.

She failed. Just. Ethiopian defences were reduced to nearly nothing, and I lost my machine gun. However, with both stacks destroyed entirely, and most of Isabellas navy on the bottom of the ocean, there was nothing left for her to do. (I managed to destroy 2 destroyers, with 2 battleships and a sub. I lost a battleship: 80% odds. :( )

As a result, she decided to end the war, and gave me Hittite (which I thought could be given to Ethopia, but instead I used it as a potential nuclear base, where my tactical nukes and missile cruisers would go...

Now, with no war, I managed to build the entire spaceship in peace. Wang Kon ALWAYS was ahead of me, even on the turn before I launched the spaceship. However, building 2 casings and a thruster in the last turn really helped :D. Wang Kon was 2 turns away from researching Fusion, which was lucky, as he was outproducing me INSANELY!!

15 turns left... and I waited. I effectively became everyone elses bi***, so no-one would declare war on me. However, then the war trumpets sounded...

It was the Arabians vs. the Persians. The Arabians only had 2 cities, and a small(ish) army. The Persians should have won it... if I hadn't taken their only source of uranium. As a result, Persia got nuked into the stone age, losing 2 cities in the next 10 turns, after they declared war.

2 turns later, and ANOTHER war started... Isabella/Mao vs. Genghis Khan/Suliman (Genghis was Sulimans Colony, and as a result, was safe from the war). 4~6 nukes later, and 1 Spanish city down, and then...

Diplo and Wars:


Victory!:


Power (Having 30+ tactical nukes helps :p):


Final Score (By FAR the best I have ever done. I think I got the third to the bottom before in a victory, so even taking into account I had grenadiers in 500BC, I still think I did pretty well :D)


Thats all folks!! The save of the game 1 turn before victory is attached. It was a close Space Race, if it weren't for the fact that Wang Kon was a tech behind me, and the fact that I managed to get 30 consecutive turns of peace (something that had eluded me since LITERALLY the first war I was in...), I would have definetly lost. Maybe. I don't know if Wang Kons capital is sea-side, and if it wasn't, then MAYBE I could nuke it and raze it... but I'm not 100% sure I could get there in 15 turns...

Lucky me.

Surprisingly, Isabella (the girl with only medieval techs) was SECOND, and Mao (the guy with ONLY industrial, and modern techs) was THIRD TO LAST, after the two civs that were unlucky enough to be next to me.

Grenadiers aren't all that great. They are expensive, and died almost as easily as, say, Knights... 4 extra :strength: wasn't game-breaking...

Comments about this game? Surprisingly, I had 3 wonders in this game (The -25% War Weariness wonder, The Oracle, and The Great Library). The next game I will make it a condition to build more wonders, as I normally skip a bunch of them... maybe 1 for each era (except future)?

The Next War Revolutions game is next, as promised. A bit of a teaser, the first game went like this:

Get and awesome start:


Get the Aryan Archers event on the 20th turn or so.
Get captured, with 1 turn left on the first warrior, and 6 turns till bronze working.

Thats life, I guess... I am REALLY looking forward to tons of barbarian automation (cloned robots) in the next game ;)

digit OUT!!
 
As someone mentioned isn't computers the tech to beat them all?
Internet = teh win ?
Sure it would take some time to build early on, would help with copper and industrous though. I remember when TGL gave this ability, sweet unbalanced TGL.
 
Well... Cyrus had Computers, and he didn't win :p

Mind you, he didn't build it until the late industrial age... so I guess it doesn't count :p

Obviously Computers, and its war-mongering cousin: Artillery, shouldn't be available for human players, if anyone tries this again. That said: The AI doesn't use a tech (aside from its passive bonuses, eg. +2 :commerce: for all watermills / windmills from electricity), until it has all the requirements for said tech... so this strongly benefits the human player... it might be an entire difficulty level, I don't know... I won by a margin that I normally get in a (very bad) Warlord game... so I dunno...
 
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