"Power in My Hand" Development Thread

[ThichN]

Working Title...

Hi all! Here is my development thread. I'd love feedback, suggestions, whatever else you'd like to talk about here.

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I took my Power in my Hand —
And went against the World —
‘Twas not so much as David — had —
But I — was twice as bold —
I aimed by Pebble — but Myself
Was all the one that fell —
Was it Goliath — was too large —
Or was myself — too small?

Emily Dickinson's "I Took Power in My Hand"

Scenario Theme
This scenario is in the vein of, "something went wrong." The world came to ruin. Part of the gameplay is about uncovering hints as to what happened, but it is kept fairly cryptic (in my current thought process). I am thinking 1,000 years, or simply, "generations ago," to keep things vague (1,000 years is probably too much time to have passed). The short of this is that the world begins a warm, dry, cruel place in some spots, a muddy, swampy, jungly mess in others. Inspiration includes Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun, generally what I consider Earth after the nuclear wars of the Star Trek universe (in terms of tech -- if you think First Contact), a bit of Mad Max pepper, but -- and perhaps most of all -- the spirit and ethos of Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri.

You'll mostly start with blunt weapons, graduate to recycled rifles and other materials (not necessarily from "our time," but also other times after), and get back into the full swing of a functional "military." Thematically, I want to deal with lost causes, engrained extremism, repeating mistakes, resilience, and -- as Dickinson's poem would imply -- fearlessness in the face of impossible odds. Of course, I also want a cool parched landscape with ragtag militias facing off against painted warriors with axes, and a healthy dose of mutant shenanigans!

What are you, then? You are 1 of 7 factions, and your faction has banded together from likeminded tribes to pursue a common goal -- a true rekindling of civilization, but centered around a way of thinking/living rather than a concept of state.

Gameplay
The player begins either with 1-2 settler units, or 1 city -- TBA, depending on certain elements. I am trying to decide, and welcome feedback: Do I want a general "mod" instead of a scenario, in which the player makes the map? Or do I want a proper scenario? I am leaning towards the latter due to balancing issues for the factions and wanting to tell a story. I think it would be fun to make a giant world map that has been flooded, but in this instance, I want the factions to all begin somewhat near each other, with the exception of 1 (giving them a leg up). I know bigger map does not always equal better, though, so I am open to suggestions on how to approach this.

A big gameplay shift from the base game is that the factions are dramatically defined, for better or worse, providing a different experience each time you play. I aim to create events files for each faction, but hey, who knows how detailed these will be. It may be more thematic than anything else. The goal here, really, is to have balanced factions, but not necessarily balanced in the same ways. One faction may have stronger offensive units, but subpar happiness-focused wonders, for example. Another faction may have excellent research ability, but a terrible starting location.

In any case, you'll start with the map barely explored, and that single city / 1-2 settlers. So begins the traditional 4X experience, although I am writing a lot of narrative, hoping to immerse the player in the world.

There will be a full tech tree, which is a mingling of eras to represent the patchwork society that has been formed since the "end."

Still thinking about victory conditions!

Terrain Quirks / Map Stuff
Well, the base terrain for the map is pretty depressing. Dead forests, parched land, swamps, minimal resources. But the added ToTPP terrain tiles are lush. See the screenshot below. The initial goal for anyone in the game will be to find these lush zones, which I hope will be the element that will promote a lot of player-AI interaction (read: ugliness ). Still, the dead zones are not totally invaluable. There are ruined towns (goody huts), and perhaps with the help of Lua I can create some other interesting elements like terraforming.

This is another reason a huge map would be fun, is this aim of finding those more habitable areas.

Narrative
I want to tell a story through this experience, and ideally, it would be slightly different for each faction. I want the mystery of the world to come alive and for the player to wonder. Again, really inspired by SMAC. Revealing too much here would give too much away!

The Factions
A lot of inspiration from SMAC, but also mingling some elements of those factions and trying to keep them distinct. See below.

The Faithful
Believers in a higher power and in the sanctity of life. The Faithful follow the doctrine of old teachings a bit too closely, resulting in an obedient, fearful populace.
Current Gameplay Musings: Fast-moving offensive units, access to broad happiness-related wonders, +science structures come later

The Free Tribes
A growing confederation of tribal leaders who seek to unify the land and give voice to the liberated. Naive, and with a demanding populace.
Current Gameplay Musings: Excellent at exploration, easier to bribe units on the map, earlier access to a diplomat-like unit, more upkeep for happiness-related improvements(?)

The Farmers
Agricultural fanatics and protectors of seed banks. The Farmers are all about growth, but this also means keeping food from others.
Current Gameplay Musings: Better yields early on (for food), start with more settlers / randomly receive new settlers, weaker offensive units

The Brutal
Take what can be taken, for only the strong shall survive. Warlike tribes that have banded together, believing the world is an enemy that needs to be tamed. Nonetheless, honorable and concerned with hierarchies of strength.
Current Gameplay Musings: Powerful offensive units, access to Sun Tzu's, slow population growth

The Tinkerers
Experiment with this and that. Combine this and that. Find it, learn all about it, use it, reverse engineer it, make it better -- or more harmful. Science is for trying new things, even the things that should not be attempted, and at whatever the cost.
Current Gameplay Musings: As scientific as they are exploratory, amazing research, access to Leo's throughout the game(?), weaker defensive units

The Archivists
History can lead the way, and must never be forgotten. Keepers of the old knowledge. Less "moving forward" compared to the Tinkerers, and more "looking backward," at the cost of being extremely isolationist and paranoid.
Current Gameplay Musings: Excellent at research (via their insights into the past), but not at spreading out, start out on an island (or 2), difficult to expand, excellent defensive units

The Merchants
The free flow of goods and re-establishment of a global economy are priority. Wealth is more important than the well-being of the populace.
Current Gameplay Musings: Tons of revenue, lots of corruption, easy/early access to caravan-like units

Leaders
TBD. This has been tough for me. I have a lot of personality ideas, and it's been fun inventing figureheads for the above factions. Stay tuned.

Current Goals
* Workshopping units and tech tree
* Continuing to practice Lua / think about what Lua could do for this
* Deciding on map type / scenario vs mod question
* Balancing the 7 factions while maintaining their flavor/concept

A totally random assortment of units made by many lovely people here... still trying to find the sweet spot of "post-apocalyptic" units. What you see here is probably a few different "eras." But the terrain is fairly set in stone. You can see the contrast between the base wasteland landscape, and the lush zones.

 

[Buck2005]

The graphics you chose seem quite nice.

How do you plan to deal with the types of government? Doesn't it seem strange to you to combine, for example, a religious faction with a republic or democracy. Or a trading faction with fundamentalism? Maybe, as they say in my language, you should "dance from the stove" [start from the beginning] from the types of governments, and not from the preliminary distribution of the wonders of the world? For example, can you give the appropriate fundamentalist, republic, monarchy (etc) technologies to the respective factions at the start of the game?

 

[ThichN]

The graphics you chose seem quite nice.

How do you plan to deal with the types of government? Doesn't it seem strange to you to combine, for example, a religious faction with a republic or democracy. Or a trading faction with fundamentalism? Maybe, as they say in my language, you should "dance from the stove" [start from the beginning] from the types of governments, and not from the preliminary distribution of the wonders of the world? For example, can you give the appropriate fundamentalist, republic, monarchy (etc) technologies to the respective factions at the start of the game?

Great insight, thanks for this. I suppose in my mind the "Governments" were going to be transformed into something akin to faction policies (in flavor), to offer different ways to play the same factions. I don't imagine Communism, for example, would be called Communism, but something like "Surveillance Protocol." In one game (for example), you might want to choose this direction for the Faithful, but in another game, choose "Euphoria Nodes" (Fundamentalism).

Although the same could certainly be done for Wonders -- I suppose I imagine governments are chosen based on the type of empire one has, but thinking out loud here, wonders could certainly be the same!

 

[ThichN]

Dropping this here! Seeking feedback on balance issues, etc. Nothing is set in stone. Happy to hear more thoughts about Buck's advice, or anything related to this document. Of course, note that the names of wonders and improvements will be different. Putting default names here for readability.

 

[ThichN]

In the above, I have a note, "More tech to research before X," which outlines a distinct early game disadvantage for some factions. However, once that tech is researched, that early game disadvantage disappears.

So I suppose my question is: is that enough of a disadvantage to balance those factions' advantages?

I think I need more game-wide handicaps to better balance the factions. The Free Tribes have expensive UU compared to other factions, while the Farmers have UU w/less than ideal offensive strength -- these are throughout the game.

From @Buck2005 advice, I believe Mike's Chapel will be buildable by all factions, and will become obsolete at some point.

 

[Buck2005]

So I suppose my question is: is that enough of a disadvantage to balance those factions' advantages?

It is difficult to say unequivocally, since these disadvantages are highly dependent on the specific starting location of each of the factions on the map.

For example, faction 1, equipped with a sufficient number of wonders of the world that give happiness to citizens, and landed at the start in favorable conditions (what is called grassland in the classics, and in your case, as I understand it, "lush lands") is quite capable of doing without libraries. When playing the classic game (expansionist-militaristic style) it usually makes little sense to build libraries before the opening of democracy.
In the case of the last faction (merchants), their lack of temples can be compensated by the availability of republic technology (I don’t know about your case, in the classic game this technology is located only 1-2 technologies further than the monarchy, if I’m not mistaken). By switching to a republic, building enough markets, and setting enough luxury costs in tax, this faction can do without temples and quite quickly open either available free wonders of the world for happiness, or coliseums or cathedrals.

 

[ThichN]

It is difficult to say unequivocally, since these disadvantages are highly dependent on the specific starting location of each of the factions on the map.

For example, faction 1, equipped with a sufficient number of wonders of the world that give happiness to citizens, and landed at the start in favorable conditions (what is called grassland in the classics, and in your case, as I understand it, "lush lands") is quite capable of doing without libraries. When playing the classic game (expansionist-militaristic style) it usually makes little sense to build libraries before the opening of democracy.
In the case of the last faction (merchants), their lack of temples can be compensated by the availability of republic technology (I don’t know about your case, in the classic game this technology is located only 1-2 technologies further than the monarchy, if I’m not mistaken). By switching to a republic, building enough markets, and setting enough luxury costs in tax, this faction can do without temples and quite quickly open either available free wonders of the world for happiness, or coliseums or cathedrals.

This is great, @Buck2005 , thank you. Exactly the kind of perspective I'm looking for. The start locations for each faction are quite different, I'd say, and so their early expansion speed varies considerably.

I suppose to really customize this, it would be excellent if different improvements had different upkeep costs based on the faction being played. That would really streamline things. @Prof. Garfield , any ideas on how that could be achieved in Lua? We've added techs, units, and terrain, but I don't think we've added improvements. This seems to be a tough spot in customizing Civ2. I do recall @Knighttime 's Medieval Millennium to have a feature where an improvement creates a unit within the city that takes up food and costs $. Perhaps that is the way forward? Making UU for each faction based on the improvement built that consumes different amounts of resources?

There are other things I could do, though... like make a cheaper caravan UU for the Merchants, for example. It seems to me that giving advantages is the easy part. It's giving disadvantages that are a little tougher, because as Buck points out, there are ways to get around them. But honestly, isn't this a good thing? It ensures they are disadvantages, rather than hard-coded handicaps (as long as those obstacles have interesting workarounds). Making a distinction there seems important.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

I suppose to really customize this, it would be excellent if different improvements had different upkeep costs based on the faction being played. That would really streamline things. @Prof. Garfield , any ideas on how that could be achieved in Lua?

The Custom Cosmic module I just released lets you do that. In fact, you can change an improvement's upkeep cost based on the city it is in. (That will skew the reported cost in the budget, but I wrote a function to calculate the true cost if needed.)

There are other things I could do, though... like make a cheaper caravan UU for the Merchants, for example. It seems to me that giving advantages is the easy part. It's giving disadvantages that are a little tougher, because as Buck points out, there are ways to get around them.

Custom Cosmic now allows you to change the shield cost of a unit (or improvment/wonder) based on the city it is being built in. So, you could use the same unit if you wanted to.

 

[ThichN]

@Prof. Garfield You're a marvel! That's absolutely perfect. The unfortunate thing about me and Lua is that once I learn something, I wait months before learning the next thing, and I've forgotten what I had picked up before! Hopefully it's like riding a bike...

 

[ThichN]

Here are sort of "dream" lists for Lua related to each faction (starting "simple"). Things I want to do in Lua for each faction, or am curious if they would be possible. Can certain tech create game effects for certain factions? (Imagine these are added to the last lists, not in contrast to.)

But before considering executing all of this in code, I suppose I have an important question: How good is AI at using features introduced through Lua? A lot of scenarios that use Lua seem to favor 1 faction, which creates a lot of freedom in how the game can be designed. If I want all factions playable, should I be limiting the Lua goodness?

Spoiler :

 

[Prof. Garfield]

But before considering executing all of this in code, I suppose I have an important question: How good is AI at using features introduced through Lua? A lot of scenarios that use Lua seem to favor 1 faction, which creates a lot of freedom in how the game can be designed. If I want all factions playable, should I be limiting the Lua goodness?

I expect that the AI will be able to deal with changes to production cost (or availability) as well as it would do if those changes were in the actual rules.txt. It could probably also deal with changes to tile productivity*, but no better than the game already chooses how to allocate workers.

*The extra river bonuses can't be implemented as a tile production change (and, so, won't show up as icons in the population placement map), because you can only change all terrain or base terrain of a certain type at once. However, you can give a food/shield/trade bonus in onCalculateCityYield to reflect the difference. The AI almost certainly won't take that into account when choosing where to put workers. Untested code:

    local tileList = gen.cityRadiusTiles(city)
    local cityWorkers = city.workers
    for workerIndex,tile in pairs(tileList) do
        if gen.isBit1(cityWorkers,workerIndex) and tile.river then
            foodChange = foodChange + 1
        end
    end

Here are sort of "dream" lists for Lua related to each faction (starting "simple"). Things I want to do in Lua for each faction, or am curious if they would be possible. Can certain tech create game effects for certain factions? (Imagine these are added to the last lists, not in contrast to.)

"Certain" wasteland tiles producing more resources runs into the same problem/solution as rivers above, unless "certain" wasteland tiles means resource tiles. Decreasing the effectiveness of pollution control structures isn't possible with any technique that I know of. Everything else looks fairly straightforward using the custom cosmic module (if the examples in the settings file aren't enough, feel free to ask for more advice).

 

[Patine]

Dropping this here! Seeking feedback on balance issues, etc. Nothing is set in stone. Happy to hear more thoughts about Buck's advice, or anything related to this document. Of course, note that the names of wonders and improvements will be different. Putting default names here for readability.View attachment 660869

I can't help when seeing the nature and leaders of these factions (not national-based, but based conceptually, but with obviously ethnic leaders, and special starting bonuses) to be reminded of SMAC...

Star Trek has notably weak, and, at times, inconsistant continuity in the, "alternate history gap," between the RL modern day, and the Enterprise prequel series (such as, I believe the first permanent Lunar Colony was date dropped somewhere as being founded in the Year 2000, and the Eugenics War, triggered by Khan, was supposed to start in 1996, but the Benton Riots, which seem to predate it, are obviously in the very early 21st Century, and the cultural remnants of the nuclear war First Contact is in the aftermath of also seem to indicate a period not too far along, etc.). But I do understand the esthetic.

 

[ThichN]

Thank you @Prof. Garfield ! I will try this out and will certainly be reaching out for your wisdom moving forward. I should clarify what I meant by "Wasteland" was just "base terrain" file (e.g., base game Grassland, Plains), in contrast to "Lush" (new terrain types). I haven't figured out how I want to organize this yet, but in those cases, a good example would be "Plains get +1 X." I think I had read somewhere, too, that you mentioned even resource tiles could be customized / somehow triggered? That seems compelling for scenarios with curated resource seeds. Noted on the rivers, and that makes sense. I will look back at the scales to see how I can tip them in other ways!

@Patine I shamelessly wear the SMAC inspiration my sleeve! The goal is definitely to have factions with personality. If only I could conjure goofy 90s stock footage/cgi videos. And gosh, you are very right about the ST inconsistencies. In my spreadsheeting (thanks to a template from @JPetroski !), I've had a lot of fun finishing up a base tech tree, units, improvements, and wonders. Starting very simple here and building up from there! I think (hope) that in my planning I have branched out from "shameless ripoff" to just as compelling a setting/story, but I will let you all be the judge. At the moment, the world is wild... Horse Breeding and Aeronautics are 1 era apart, and Algae Farms will be in a city's improvement list alongside Arenas and Palisades, all fairly early in the game. Get ready for a true hodgepodge... a world fielding Blademasters alongside Dirigibles and Gaswagons.

Always open to suggestions, be they mechanical/tonal/world-building-related!

 

[ThichN]

Lua Hopes for Scenario, non-faction specific
Here are some goals I have in mind as far as lua features go for the general game. Priority runs from 1-5, 5 being the ones I want to see most.

Certain Units Target Specific Improvements (2)
As @Pablostuka was doing in his scenario, a way for units to target specific improvements when attacking a city.

Dust Storms (5)
A "terrain change" feature that is randomized, with the goal of giving the game a different feel each time even if it is on the same map. Dust storms will come in and turn lush terrain back into wasteland terrain.

Exploding Units When Destroyed (5)
I'd like some units, when destroyed, to harm adjacent ground units. And then for some units to be immune to this later. Even better: creating "Contamination" (this scenario's "Pollution") adjacent to the unit. On that note...

Units that Create Pollution When Stationary (4)
It would be really great if a player "spacebars" a unit outside of a city, that the unit generates pollution nearby or adjacent. Not all units, of course. This is for specific units. Heck, even if they move, it could be interesting. Players could use this intentionally to poison opponent lands.

Terraforming (2)
Kind of curious if the above principle could be used to morph terrain around certain units after a command.

Using SDI (3)
I would like for a successful SDI use to only be possible if the player has the appropriate funds to use it, or has another defensive unit in the city that requires SDI to build. This is a "3" because I don't know how well AI would use it, if at all, and that would tip the balance heavily in favor of the player. And on this note...

NM-Caused Pollution Showing up Elsewhere if SDI Works (2)
If an SDI shoots down a nuke, can pollution show up elsewhere? I think this is possible even with base events.txt. Location TBA. Just curious if this is possible.

Pollution with Benefits (5)
Can pollution receive benefits? E.g., could I designate a faction's ability to be that they can move across pollution like it is a railroad?



Objective ideas that are either impossible now or will require lua(?)

Change % of the World's Terrain
Somehow reading what % of the world's terrain is "lush," and ticking off a victory condition when it reaches a certain percentage.

Build X in Every City
An objective to build a certain improvement in every city owned by player by a certain date, with a minimum # required.

Trade with All Cities
Objective to create a trade route with all non-player cities on the map.

Least # of Cities
Objective to have the least # of cities on the map by a certain date.

Objective for Continents
Have and hold a city on every continent for X # of turns.

Wasteland Objective
Have more cities in wasteland than in lush land in X # of turns.

Unit Number and Type
Build and keep X # of units of a certain type for Y # of turns.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Certain Units Target Specific Improvements (2)
As @Pablostuka was doing in his scenario, a way for units to target specific improvements when attacking a city.

Fairly easy. You can use onInitiateCombat or onUnitKilled to detect when combat takes place in a city, and remove the corresponding improvement.

Dust Storms (5)
A "terrain change" feature that is randomized, with the goal of giving the game a different feel each time even if it is on the same map. Dust storms will come in and turn lush terrain back into wasteland terrain.

Changing random terrain squares is certainly possible. Easiest way to find lush terrain at random might be to generate random tiles until a lush tile is found (if there are very few, it might make more sense to keep track of them in a table).

Exploding Units When Destroyed (5)
I'd like some units, when destroyed, to harm adjacent ground units. And then for some units to be immune to this later. Even better: creating "Contamination" (this scenario's "Pollution") adjacent to the unit. On that note...

Damaging units is easy, and the General Library has tools to place and remove pollution.

function gen.hasPollution(tile: table|tileObject)  -> boolean
function gen.placePollution(tile: table|tileObject)
function gen.placePollution(tile: table|tileObject)

Units that Create Pollution When Stationary (4)
It would be really great if a player "spacebars" a unit outside of a city, that the unit generates pollution nearby or adjacent. Not all units, of course. This is for specific units. Heck, even if they move, it could be interesting. Players could use this intentionally to poison opponent lands.

The game has a "moved" flag for units, to check if they should heal on the next turn.

gen.isMoved(unit: unitObject)  -> boolean
gen.clearMoved(unit: unitObject)
gen.setMoved(unit: unitObject)
The game sets this flag when a unit moves (even if no movement points are spent). The Unit won't heal on next turn if this flag is set.

Maybe combine with onFinalOrderGiven (an execution point made for the template)

function discreteEvents.onFinalOrderGiven(code: fun(unit: unitObject))

Registers code to be executed when a unit has been given its last order for the turn. That is, when a new unit is active, and the previous unit has spent all its movement points (or, at the end of the turn)
The AI wouldn't understand this.

Terraforming (2)
Kind of curious if the above principle could be used to morph terrain around certain units after a command.

Changing terrain on a key press is relatively easy. You'd have to help the AI do it, though.

Using SDI (3)
I would like for a successful SDI use to only be possible if the player has the appropriate funds to use it, or has another defensive unit in the city that requires SDI to build. This is a "3" because I don't know how well AI would use it, if at all, and that would tip the balance heavily in favor of the player. And on this note...

You'd have to test if

civ.scen.onUseNuclearWeapon(function (unit, tile) -> boolean) -> void

activates if the nuke is intercepted by SDI. It is clear, however, that you can implement your own version of SDI using this execution point, if you like (which can fail, if you want). The AI won't understand. In the base game, you can create "nuke traps" by having a city that is a prime nuke target, and SDI in a different city nearby, and the AI will waste multiple nukes trying to attack. (Maybe this was fixed by the time TOT came around, but I don't know.)

NM-Caused Pollution Showing up Elsewhere if SDI Works (2)
If an SDI shoots down a nuke, can pollution show up elsewhere? I think this is possible even with base events.txt. Location TBA. Just curious if this is possible.

This would require detecting an SDI interception, which I don't know if it is possible.

Pollution with Benefits (5)
Can pollution receive benefits? E.g., could I designate a faction's ability to be that they can move across pollution like it is a railroad?

Maybe you could use onEnterTile to restore movement points. Or, put down railroads on pollution at the start of a faction's turn, and remove them at the end. On a more general note, you could create Nuclear/Biological/Chemical units which are more combat effective on polluted tiles. (The AI wouldn't understand that.)

Change % of the World's Terrain
Somehow reading what % of the world's terrain is "lush," and ticking off a victory condition when it reaches a certain percentage.

Build X in Every City
An objective to build a certain improvement in every city owned by player by a certain date, with a minimum # required.

Counting things is pretty easy.

Trade with All Cities
Objective to create a trade route with all non-player cities on the map.

This seems pretty doable. For all cities, check if they are AI, and, if so, check if one of the trade routes goes to one of the human player's cities. If it doesn't, return false. If you get to the end of the list, return true.

Least # of Cities
Objective to have the least # of cities on the map by a certain date.

Counting things can be done. Or, use tribe.numCities.

Objective for Continents
Have and hold a city on every continent for X # of turns.

Not to hard to check this on each turn, and you can define a counter for this for each tribe.

Wasteland Objective
Have more cities in wasteland than in lush land in X # of turns.

This time you're counting 2 things, and incrementing a counter if relevant.

Unit Number and Type
Build and keep X # of units of a certain type for Y # of turns.

Counting units of a certain type is possible, as is having a counter keep track of how many turns the condition has been met.

 

[ThichN]

@Prof. Garfield What a generous post! Thank you for compiling this info. And I feel your responses kindled the imagination as much as they offered problem-solving. It's so fantastic to see that there are ways to implement these concepts! I'll have to think about AI compatibility going forward. Very exciting indeed. Good to know about the nuke bait as well, that's interesting. I've always felt nukes give the player such a leg up over the AI, because the AI is not very good at using them. Trying to identify how many tiles from a city SDI will intercept might be useful, or creating situations (trying to coral the AI) where large battles happen away from cities and nukes would be beneficial away from SDI-defended zones. I may be introducing too many ways in which the player has advantage, here, so generating AI units or otherwise giving the AI some advantages make sense.

How has the AI responded to the "Needing X improvement to build Y unit" rule? Any field evidence of this? It seems in most games that use this the AI has already been established as an empire, so I wonder how the AI would fare in the case of a fresh start game. Maybe that's the key, actually... reading if it is the player or not, and allowing the AI to build units w/o the necessary improvement (let them "cheat" essentially).

I'm having flashbacks of how nonsensical SMAC's AI is at terraforming, for example. Or even in Civ2 how bad AI is at cleaning up pollution.

 

[Prof. Garfield]

How has the AI responded to the "Needing X improvement to build Y unit" rule? Any field evidence of this? It seems in most games that use this the AI has already been established as an empire, so I wonder how the AI would fare in the case of a fresh start game. Maybe that's the key, actually... reading if it is the player or not, and allowing the AI to build units w/o the necessary improvement (let them "cheat" essentially).

I'd be willing to bet that the AI's decision to build improvements is not based on any particular goals, but rather on some sort of simple ranking of available options, probably influenced by the need to have happiness improvements. So, you could probably run into an issue where a low priority building unlocks good units or something of that sort, and the AI doesn't build it. Not demanding that the AI have prerequisite buildings for production is one option. Another is to just give them the building sometimes.

You could probably test how the AI chooses what to build by activating automatic production.

I don't think anyone has done anything for actively controlling AI production yet. That will probably be something that we address in the Over the Reich remake, but it could be some time before we get to that. You might test to see if the AI will stick with its current production order if you change it, or whether the AI periodically recalculates.

 

[ThichN]

I'd be willing to bet that the AI's decision to build improvements is not based on any particular goals, but rather on some sort of simple ranking of available options, probably influenced by the need to have happiness improvements. So, you could probably run into an issue where a low priority building unlocks good units or something of that sort, and the AI doesn't build it. Not demanding that the AI have prerequisite buildings for production is one option. Another is to just give them the building sometimes.

You could probably test how the AI chooses what to build by activating automatic production.

I don't think anyone has done anything for actively controlling AI production yet. That will probably be something that we address in the Over the Reich remake, but it could be some time before we get to that. You might test to see if the AI will stick with its current production order if you change it, or whether the AI periodically recalculates.

That's a good idea. It would be interesting to investigate how the ranking works. Giving them the building seems like a good idea, too, to make the game more challenging. Would you and JPetroski keep me/us updated on your findings?

Map Woes
I'm having some map issues. I spent a while editing the huge world map (found in the Imperialism scenario). The map without edits opens up just fine for me as a custom map when I start a new game. Once I edited it, though, it refused to open. ("Failed to load map file.") Woops!

But this brought to mind a few different issues I see with playability, fun factor, and others.

Map Option 1: Real-World Earth With Modifications
I could do a world map. Pick a size: the default "large" size, the giga, etc. Issues I see whichever way I go there is distance between factions. 7 factions on the huge world map from Imperialism for a fresh-start game might be a slog! Anyone else have thoughts on this?

The pro of this would be an interesting "re-exploration" of the world (with heavy modifications due to climate change and other factors). The Earth, also, has a lot of dynamic features that make any game fun, and the real-world context would be grounding and bring weight to the story.

Map Option 2: The North Sea Passage
Another idea is to make a large or giga world map of the north sea passage / north pole regions, as they are predicted to open up to more shipping and civilization in worst-case climate change scenarios. This would make a sort of "ring" landmass. Current maps of these regions are too small and not very detailed.

Cons: Flat earth, not very dynamic, and perhaps the opposite issue of factions being too close to each other, unless a huge map is made; worried it will promote a close-quarters battle game rather than a proper civ 4X experience.

Could alleviate the above cons with a larger map, perhaps some impassable terrain features, and other interesting geographic features that make the game a bit more varied. Still would be flat, though. Maybe that's a good thing? Maybe the rest of the world is so beyond gone, that the north pole is where all of the action takes place. What's nice is that the north pole idea still promotes a navy, even though it is flat (as a giant sea occupies the center).

Map Option 3: This is a Mod, not a Scenario
What I mean by this is: randomly generated map each game. Every game is different, which is great.

Con: Cannot intentionally place lush lands (unless I figure out how the game makes maps, which I think Knighttime did?), no pre-set geographic features/anomalies, and factions don't start out with 1-2 cities and other unique starting conditions.

Map Option 4: Outta This World (Sorta)
Make a map of Earth that is so gone to hell that it barely resembles Earth at all. More geographic connection points to allow for more interaction. AI would do better without huge seas and isolation for a long period of time.

 

[ThichN]

A bunch of inspiration for Map Option #2 [SPOILERS]

Spoiler :

 

[Buck2005]

Map Option 1: Real-World Earth With Modifications

I have repeatedly, and with different players, used this map of the Earth to play in the original style, or in a modification. The size of this map is quite sufficient to guarantee a minimum chance of early conflict in the early game, and at the same time, it is quite acceptable for waging wars without significant editing of unit movement points. Most of the games on this map ended in a spectacular military battle for dominance. In general, I like this map, and I speak specifically from the experience of vanilla, or close to it, the game.

Map Option 2: The North Sea Passage

I once created several maps of the maximum size (32760). The main disadvantages of the most reliable representation of the proportions of the Earth are the too small area of Europe and other territories (Japan, India, China, North America) both for tactical actions by military units and for a realistic display of the economic significance of these regions. On the other hand, there is an excessively large area of the peripheral regions of Africa, Australia, North America, Siberia, and so on.

I tried all possible projections, however, with the current maximum size (32760), an acceptable compromise result cannot be achieved without the use of artificial distortions. Which inevitably lead to an aesthetically unpleasant impression of the map. So, first of all, you should decide what is more important for you: aesthetics, or the overall functionality of the map. If I don't like a map (usually the main problem is primitivism in proportions and blunders in detail), I won't use such a map.


Also, I recommend that you evaluate for yourself the possible map sizes using different geographic projections, and decide which projection best suits your needs. The distance between the points is 10 squares:

Cylindrical equal-area projection with oblique orientation:

Azimuthal projection (or UN projection):

Well, the last remark on this topic, as far as I know, Knighttime has an author's tool for automated creation of maps in Civ2. Its tool allows you to create high quality maps. I was impressed by its capabilities. Personally, I use a different principle (proportion accuracy is not a priority for me) in creating maps, I never wondered how he did it. But overall, his method is amazing. However, he has not appeared in this forum for a very long time.