Question about Bannor under Crusade

[Vatras]

I have after a long pause re-installed Civ 4 and also FfH 2. The first thing I learned was how much I had forgotten about it...

Now to my situation: I am playing the ljosalfar (with leaves) and after a weird time of war with my neutral neighbors I ended up with war against the Bannor. My main opponent was the Clan of Embers, who fled into vassalage to the Bannor when I finally laid siege to his last city. From then on the Bannor started to become my enemy, while the evil Balseraphs slowly turned neutral. I am still unsure how that could happen, but the Bannor started to act like his vassal over the years, the tail wagging with the dog.
At the time the Bannor declared war on me, the Balseraphs declared on them, too. After having finally ripped two cities away from them I wanted to end the massacre as the war weariness dragged me down. That was when I found out (again) that I cannot make peace with the Bannors while they are under Crusade.
And here is the funny thing: the Balseraphs could make peace with Bannor a few rounds later, while he still had Crusade going on. My question is: how could Balseraph do that, and are there ways to do so for other races too?

I came up with the only explanation, that Bannor made peace by himself, but I am not sure if that is even possible under Crusade. And if so, I wonder why he makes peace with his evil enemies, but not his good former partner?

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Nothing of that sort. I suspect a odd vassal/capitulation or spell interaction. More info is required to be certain, however.

It is impossible for Bannor to open diplomacy with an opponent they are at war with.

 

[Vatras]

Thanks for the info. I have to look into it, if it was going over the vassal.

I can't see a spell that would work here, though. The world spells of the various races do other things and were already cast anyway, while the unit spells are all tactical stuff.

P.S.: supposing you declare war on the vassal, you would also be shown at war with the master? Reading your posting again I thought that maybe the Balseraphs declared on the vassal and made peace with him, and that cleared also up the war with the master.

 

[A Moon]

Does the AI ever use the Seven Pines? That would do it.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Does the AI ever use the Seven Pines? That would do it.

That wouldn't work for his, as that gives everyone peace.

You can't negotiate with a vassal, only with the master.

 

[Calavente]

spirit 3 grants you peace... but would the AI know to do that :/

 

[A Moon]

That wouldn't work for his, as that gives everyone peace

Maybe the Balseraph used the Seven Pines, not the Bannor.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

I am pretty sure that Seven Pines causes Global peace, between all players. Happy to be corrected, though.

 

[A Moon]

I will bet one internet that it only peaces out the caster, like Corlindale's peace spell.

 

[Vatras]

The Seven Pines can end war even with Bannor under Crusade. They are on my own lands, so testing that was easy (I was unaware of their effect). Using their spell includes also the vassals of the enemy, but other wars going on without you are unaffected.
So that would have worked for the Balseraphs, except that the Pines are on my lands. I cannot check if Loki could go there and use them on another nation's lands, but I don't believe that the AI is actually capable of that.

I did not find a tier 3 spellcaster unit among the Balseraphs, but I can easily have overlooked one. I wonder if the AI ever uses the 3 spirit spell anyway?

 

[A Moon]

The Spirit III spell, Trust, doesn't end wars, it gives you a small relationship boost with all other nations. It's rather useless.

I don't think any unit can use the Seven Pines unless they are in the owner's borders. Odd.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Not odd, functioning by design.

But yeah, the only unit peace spell is Corlindale's, the Elohim hero.

 

[BobCW]

The AI don't understand how to use it anyway, just as Basium doesn't understand how to exploit the Pyre to obtain permanent Fire Elementals and barbarian leaders won't hire goblins from forts.

 

[A Moon]

Not odd, functioning by design.

But yeah, the only unit peace spell is Corlindale's, the Elohim hero.

To clarify, I wasn't saying it was odd that the Balseraph couldn't use the Pines, it was odd that their war with the Bannor ended when that doesn't seem like it should have been possible.

 

[BobCW]

If the Bannor are in a permanent alliance with anyone (such as Basium), it is possible to make peace with them via their ally.

 

[Bad Player]

There's an event that will allow peace if you choose that option.

 

[omegaflames]

Without actually looking at the code for the event I'd have to agree with Bad Player that it was probably one of the events that allow peace to take place. However IIRC that event does print a message saying that it took place regardless of the option you pick.