gamemaster3000
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2005
- Messages
- 159
Thought I'd share a few observations about Brave New World:
--Great starting tiles in the first four cities are better than any civ. Lots of river = lots of food, which leads to lots of beakers
--Money is much more of a problem than it used to be now that rivers don't give cash. (A post I wrote on the subject http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=526566)
--Monarchy (+1 gold +1 happy for every 2 citizens in the capital) is overpowered because early coins are so helpful. (Plus happiness!) If you want to expand with liberty you can't pay for the new city's buildings, and if you want to warmonger you can't afford the army without that gold. And on top of that it's also a solid bonus for the entire duration of the game.
--The faith system is very well balanced and enhances the games core mechanics without unbalancing them. There's some pretty decent bonuses, but you could easily win the game without religion.
--Diplomacy and espionage are good but not as good as faith. Faith makes the game more fun, I think diplomacy is more, "Don't mess up so bad they embargo you." It definitely changed how I thought about city states, though. (I'm not very good at working the AI though, so maybe there's something I'm missing here.)
--Social policies are good and provide very solid bonuses, but actually winning with culture seems impractical. Any large AI is going to have so much culture you could either conquer them or launch the spaceship more easily.
So now my ranking of the leaders based on their ability to win. I'm assuming about half the games have barbarians on, ancient starts, all victory types.
(Reference of their bonuses at http://www.carlsguides.com/strategy/civilization5/civilizations/ Clicking the links gives the dude's strategies for them as well)
Best:
Zulu - ridiculous warmongering. Less maintenance is great, unique promotions from barracks is great, impi are great too.
Assyria - siege towers and tech stealing are game-changing and bonus XP for great works of writing is ok
Poland - free social policies is really strong. Hussars and Ducal stables are ok.
China - 30% from great generals is quite good, double attacking chu-ko-nu are devastating, and +2 gold from libraries is quite helpful for early budgets
Indonesia - free resources, which means free gold/happies, tons of faith from unique building and some potentially overpowered bonuses from unique swordsman
Ethiopia - +2 faith from monument guarantees you'll have tons of faith. 20% combat is decent because you'll need it most when you're the underdog, free Drill 1 on riflemen is helpful
America - (Edit: I agree that they're not top-tier, I still think +1 sight is undervalued by many.) I think it's easy to overlook how good +1 sight is. It's a godsend when artillery shows up, reduces the need for horse units to scout, and helps prevent barbarians from spawning, plus lets you find ancient ruins/good city sites/city states faster in the beginning. Minutemen are pretty good as are the B17s if you get that far
Morocco - (Edit: They're good but not as good as Arabia.) trade routes give tons of cash the whole game, giving lots of options
Average:
Greece - decent city state bonus, strong early units to get a good start
Rome - +25% production on buildings in Rome is quite good, decent early units
Japan - injured units fighting at full strength is quite good for warmongering, but provides no peacetime benefit. Upgraded longswordsman are good
Arabia - (Edit: They're better than I previously thought, Camel Archers can move after shooting which is extremely valuable.) 50% range on caravans is very dependent on your geography. Extra copies of resources from markets is quite good and potentially worth lots of gold or happiness. Camel archers are ok.
Aztecs - culture for kills is ok, jaguars are very strong in the first 50 turns, floating gardens are very good the whole game through. (Edit: I ranked them a little lower because I usually play with barbarians off.)
Shoshone - extra tiles when settling is pretty nice, choosing your ancient ruin bonuses can also be game-changing if you get enough of them. Comanche warrior is meh
Egypt - wonder construction is good, war chariots aren't all that great unless the map is really flat, 2 happiness from temple and no maintenance is pretty nice
Iroquois - forests as roads is helpful with their start bias. The swordsman not requiring iron is a potential lifesaver, and longhouses will probably be good in a few cities
Siam - bonuses from city states were way better when maritime ones gave 6 food in the capital when the game first came out
+3 culture from university is ok, elephants are ok
Great if there's tons of water, terrible otherwise:
Portugal - +gold from trade routes is great throughout the whole game, but the unique tile improvement really depends on how much water there is and if the city-states are on it, and the upgraded caravel is meh unless there's a ton of naval battles
Ottomans - Capturing ships depends heavily on how many naval battles are happening, janissaries are powerful, but the sipahi aren't that good unless you have no intention of actually taking the city
England - One of the worst unless you're doing tons of sea battles. I have abused the Longbowman's range of three in a few games, though.
Venice - I need to play this one first
Situational:
Germany - needs barbarians turned on but -maintenance on land units, +production from bank are all decent
Gandhi - Not bad, but you definitely have to match your playstyle to his reversed happiness. Elephants are ok, +2 culture from castle is ok
Worst:
Songhai - Gold from pillaging is ok, embarked units is meh, +2 culture from mosque is ok
Russia - tundra start bias, strategic resources is meh, cossacks/cavalry come too late and get obsolete too fast, krepost is decent though
Persia - Longer golden ages are ok, immortals are pretty decent, 2 happiness from banks is ok. I think he was better in vanilla but the new civs are more powerful
Mongolia - Fighting city states isn't all that wise, and generally I think this game revolves more around siege units than cavalry
France - Cultural victory only, which is IMO the most impractical victory. +4 strength to musketmen is meh
Brazil - Again I'm biased against cultural victories. Jungle tiles are also very uncommon on standard settings, so only his start bias will help
Civs I don't have:
Huns
Celts
Carthage
Sweden
Denmark
Polynesia
Spain - conquistadors look interesting
Austria
Babylon
Maya
Inca
Korea
Byzantium
Netherlands
--Great starting tiles in the first four cities are better than any civ. Lots of river = lots of food, which leads to lots of beakers
--Money is much more of a problem than it used to be now that rivers don't give cash. (A post I wrote on the subject http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=526566)
--Monarchy (+1 gold +1 happy for every 2 citizens in the capital) is overpowered because early coins are so helpful. (Plus happiness!) If you want to expand with liberty you can't pay for the new city's buildings, and if you want to warmonger you can't afford the army without that gold. And on top of that it's also a solid bonus for the entire duration of the game.
--The faith system is very well balanced and enhances the games core mechanics without unbalancing them. There's some pretty decent bonuses, but you could easily win the game without religion.
--Diplomacy and espionage are good but not as good as faith. Faith makes the game more fun, I think diplomacy is more, "Don't mess up so bad they embargo you." It definitely changed how I thought about city states, though. (I'm not very good at working the AI though, so maybe there's something I'm missing here.)
--Social policies are good and provide very solid bonuses, but actually winning with culture seems impractical. Any large AI is going to have so much culture you could either conquer them or launch the spaceship more easily.
So now my ranking of the leaders based on their ability to win. I'm assuming about half the games have barbarians on, ancient starts, all victory types.
(Reference of their bonuses at http://www.carlsguides.com/strategy/civilization5/civilizations/ Clicking the links gives the dude's strategies for them as well)
Best:
Zulu - ridiculous warmongering. Less maintenance is great, unique promotions from barracks is great, impi are great too.
Assyria - siege towers and tech stealing are game-changing and bonus XP for great works of writing is ok
Poland - free social policies is really strong. Hussars and Ducal stables are ok.
China - 30% from great generals is quite good, double attacking chu-ko-nu are devastating, and +2 gold from libraries is quite helpful for early budgets
Indonesia - free resources, which means free gold/happies, tons of faith from unique building and some potentially overpowered bonuses from unique swordsman
Ethiopia - +2 faith from monument guarantees you'll have tons of faith. 20% combat is decent because you'll need it most when you're the underdog, free Drill 1 on riflemen is helpful
America - (Edit: I agree that they're not top-tier, I still think +1 sight is undervalued by many.) I think it's easy to overlook how good +1 sight is. It's a godsend when artillery shows up, reduces the need for horse units to scout, and helps prevent barbarians from spawning, plus lets you find ancient ruins/good city sites/city states faster in the beginning. Minutemen are pretty good as are the B17s if you get that far
Morocco - (Edit: They're good but not as good as Arabia.) trade routes give tons of cash the whole game, giving lots of options
Average:
Greece - decent city state bonus, strong early units to get a good start
Rome - +25% production on buildings in Rome is quite good, decent early units
Japan - injured units fighting at full strength is quite good for warmongering, but provides no peacetime benefit. Upgraded longswordsman are good
Arabia - (Edit: They're better than I previously thought, Camel Archers can move after shooting which is extremely valuable.) 50% range on caravans is very dependent on your geography. Extra copies of resources from markets is quite good and potentially worth lots of gold or happiness. Camel archers are ok.
Aztecs - culture for kills is ok, jaguars are very strong in the first 50 turns, floating gardens are very good the whole game through. (Edit: I ranked them a little lower because I usually play with barbarians off.)
Shoshone - extra tiles when settling is pretty nice, choosing your ancient ruin bonuses can also be game-changing if you get enough of them. Comanche warrior is meh
Egypt - wonder construction is good, war chariots aren't all that great unless the map is really flat, 2 happiness from temple and no maintenance is pretty nice
Iroquois - forests as roads is helpful with their start bias. The swordsman not requiring iron is a potential lifesaver, and longhouses will probably be good in a few cities
Siam - bonuses from city states were way better when maritime ones gave 6 food in the capital when the game first came out
+3 culture from university is ok, elephants are okGreat if there's tons of water, terrible otherwise:
Portugal - +gold from trade routes is great throughout the whole game, but the unique tile improvement really depends on how much water there is and if the city-states are on it, and the upgraded caravel is meh unless there's a ton of naval battles
Ottomans - Capturing ships depends heavily on how many naval battles are happening, janissaries are powerful, but the sipahi aren't that good unless you have no intention of actually taking the city
England - One of the worst unless you're doing tons of sea battles. I have abused the Longbowman's range of three in a few games, though.
Venice - I need to play this one first
Situational:
Germany - needs barbarians turned on but -maintenance on land units, +production from bank are all decent
Gandhi - Not bad, but you definitely have to match your playstyle to his reversed happiness. Elephants are ok, +2 culture from castle is ok
Worst:
Songhai - Gold from pillaging is ok, embarked units is meh, +2 culture from mosque is ok
Russia - tundra start bias, strategic resources is meh, cossacks/cavalry come too late and get obsolete too fast, krepost is decent though
Persia - Longer golden ages are ok, immortals are pretty decent, 2 happiness from banks is ok. I think he was better in vanilla but the new civs are more powerful
Mongolia - Fighting city states isn't all that wise, and generally I think this game revolves more around siege units than cavalry
France - Cultural victory only, which is IMO the most impractical victory. +4 strength to musketmen is meh
Brazil - Again I'm biased against cultural victories. Jungle tiles are also very uncommon on standard settings, so only his start bias will help
Civs I don't have:
Huns
Celts
Carthage
Sweden
Denmark
Polynesia
Spain - conquistadors look interesting
Austria
Babylon
Maya
Inca
Korea
Byzantium
Netherlands
