RBtS1b - The Thief Economy

[Swiss Pauli]

... and I don't want to unilaterally whip our cities to quickly produce some longbows.

This is exactly the kind of call you need to make, unless you're prepared to interrupt your set to take advice: if you feel it's the best move to whip defenders, then go for it. The pop will grow back and it does not impact strategic direction, so while over-whipping might be sub-optimal, no whipping isn't great too (whipping is the point of running slavery) and the price of the latter - e.g. a lost city - can be far greater than the former (whip unhappiness).

I think we'll be OK here, if we whip a longbow after the walls in Pasargadae and throw our siege stack at Shaka for the collateral damage.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

The Roster
Kodii
pindicator
sunrise - just played
Swiss Pauli - swapped
ungy - up for action

@ungy - I had a look at the save, and there's a Longbow in Persep than can be moved into Pasargadae in two moves, and maybe the trebs should come, too.

 

[ungy]

We played the same map, and the only change in settings we had was switching off AGG AI, aside from allowing the Pie bomb.

That's great--I didn't realize that.

 

[sunrise089]

This is exactly the kind of call you need to make, unless you're prepared to interrupt your set to take advice: if you feel it's the best move to whip defenders, then go for it. The pop will grow back and it does not impact strategic direction, so while over-whipping might be sub-optimal, no whipping isn't great too (whipping is the point of running slavery) and the price of the latter - e.g. a lost city - can be far greater than the former (whip unhappiness).

I think we'll be OK here, if we whip a longbow after the walls in Pasargadae and throw our siege stack at Shaka for the collateral damage.

Right, but I did interrupt my set to ask for advice, and the consensus wasn't even 100% to switch builds towards military, much less whip a round of longbows.

Anyways, glad you think we can withstand the attack, so hopefully I didn't put us in too bad of trouble.

 

[ungy]

Right, but I did interrupt my set to ask for advice, and the consensus wasn't even 100% to switch builds towards military, much less whip a round of longbows.

yes I think we might have been lulled by Shaka's initial weak foray.

I think we can defend OK--we do have a lot of units there and my guess is he spends a turn reducing.

It's really a huge advantage to defend in these situations--even if you take some collat. When the stacks are really large, the collat is not as important.

I'll plan on playing tonight--basically shift to more military and rush reinforcements to defend. Long term plan I think remains the same--steal D's tech then take him out, take peace with Zulu. Plan to finish Zulu with better units later.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Right, but I did interrupt my set to ask for advice, and the consensus wasn't even 100% to switch builds towards military, much less whip a round of longbows.

You broke before seeing the big stack, which changed the outlook considerably.

However, the point I was making was not so much to criticize, but more to encourage you to back your own judgement, as it seemed to me that you felt it best to whip those longbows (in light of Shaka bringing a lot more to the battlefield), but decided not to for fear of upsetting the rest of the team.

 

[sunrise089]

yes I think we might have been lulled by Shaka's initial weak foray.

I think we can defend OK--we do have a lot of units there and my guess is he spends a turn reducing.

It's really a huge advantage to defend in these situations--even if you take some collat. When the stacks are really large, the collat is not as important.

I'll plan on playing tonight--basically shift to more military and rush reinforcements to defend. Long term plan I think remains the same--steal D's tech then take him out, take peace with Zulu. Plan to finish Zulu with better units later.

Shaka has a 30-unit stack. We have 25 defenders, and can probably raise it to 30 in two turns with a whip (my wall build was specifically to give us a bit more time considering the AI likes to bombard cities all the way down.

What worries me is that TWENTY ONE of our twenty five defenders don't receive defensive bonuses. On the other hand, we do have several siege units, and a higher average strength than Shaka, due to our knights. If the rest of the team thanks whipping a longbow and moving a few other defensive units into position is the right call, than I support it. I just have the feeling that we could attack now and kill 15 or so units with the loss of just our siege. Maybe that isn't good enough, but it's what I'd consider doing if it were me.

 

[ungy]

What worries me is that TWENTY ONE of our twenty five defenders don't receive defensive bonuses. On the other hand, we do have several siege units, and a higher average strength than Shaka, due to our knights. If the rest of the team thanks whipping a longbow and moving a few other defensive units into position is the right call, than I support it. I just have the feeling that we could attack now and kill 15 or so units with the loss of just our siege. Maybe that isn't good enough, but it's what I'd consider doing if it were me.

You raise a very good concern--however I take a much less optimistic view of our ability to attack. I also think the AI is likely to reduce in this situation and we should have a couple of turns to reinforce.

If we attack, Shaka has 6 pike 3 with formation, and 7 jumbos. We have 5 seige units. If we use them we get essentially 1 collat to each of a 30 unit stack. Not nearly enough collat. On top of that some of our units are injured. If we get a turn or 2 to heal that helps.

 

[ungy]

RL intervenes--I'll play tomorrow for sure.

 

[pindicator]

I don't see how we can attack out. We don't have enough seige to take the stack. Should be okay. Shaka has got his forces geared heavily towards anti-mounted troops. All we need to do is build some CR maces, and maybe whip some LB/XB for defense

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I'm away from tomorrow until Monday, so here's a quick roster recap.

The Roster
Kodii - on deck
pindicator
sunrise
Swiss Pauli (skip til Monday)
ungy - up for action

Have fun and good luck!

 

[ungy]

OK-here goes.

1400 inherited turn--move reinforcements to Pasargadae.
Switch esp to Wang. Whip LB in Helio. My gut feeling is it's not worth a major push against Zulu--though I'm not positive. Might make sense to take Ecbatana and uMgung. Probably depends on outcome of major battle. My guess is Zulu will reduce.

IBT Zulu reduce, most advanced
1. D
2. Wang
3. Unkn
4. Hat
5. Us
6. Zulu
7. Unkn

1405 Whip castle in Pasargadae. We now have 32 units in Pasar.
whip mace in Thebes, CH in Helio.

1410..

IBT Zulu attack Pasargadae with all units, starting with collat.--we have 33 units and +26% culture.
Zulu have brought up an additional treb.

We lose axe, jumbo, 2Lb, XB, knight. D pops culture which pushes Zulu stack back. We pick up remainder of Zulu stackw/o loss.

GG in Uxmal--not sure what to do with him.

1415 Zulu look pretty weak so it's our turn to attack a bit.
IBT Hattie is reducing Ecbatana.

1420..

IBT we lose our spy at Zulu
1425 Shaka has a 7 unit mini stack coming for Persopolis.
IBT Zulu fake me out and attack my stack next to Ect which was too weak. We lose 2 LB, 2 cat, 1knight and kill only a 2 Zulu . We were on hill so I thought the LB would do better.

1430 getting ready to take Ect.
We fail to steal GP from Wang.
We steal banking from D.
IBT a distant civ gets lib.

1435 We steal aesthetics, lit, and compass from D .
Ect is reduced.

1440 We attack ect. 14 defenders but some are not full strength.
Mid stream I notice that we lose a square of culture and 3 knights can't reach
No matter we take it w/o loss with the help of CR trebs.
Zulu are willing to give a city for peace but not one we know.

I'll pause for comments and can continue tomorrow.

Questions:

HE, NE, FP, statues where?

HE candidates Susa, Pasargadae, Lakamba.

NE candidates Thebes, Chicken.

FP cand. Perse, Susa, Zululand.

Statues Chicken, Mayapan

Maybe some other candidates as well.

Zulu seem to be unable to offer much resistance. I think we should go for a bigger win here. Take uMgun, KwaD, and Ulundi, then give peace with no vassal. Then finish D (we should have his tech by then). Then finish Zulu later. Maybe put FP in uMgun.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

@ungy - can you post the save so that the team can load and give feedback. It's hard to judge otherwise. Thanks.

 

[ungy]

@ungy - can you post the save so that the team can load and give feedback. It's hard to judge otherwise. Thanks.

sorry of course...

 

[ungy]

Sorry about not posting the file yesterday--I'm going to continue since I'm pretty sure it's correct to cripple Zulu here.

We've pretty well broken the Zulu army--31 units die attacking Pasargadae and another 15 at Ecbatana. We lose around 10 units total.

We have some danger of Susa and Pasargadae flipping.

OK I make a wonder decision--statues to Mayapan. I delay HE, NE, FP --we have other things to build in those cities anyway.

1445 heal up a bit.

1450 start to move on UMgung. A couple more Zulus on the way go to meet their maker.

1455 Kill a few more units and are next to UMgung.

IBT a couple of Zulus suicide on Ect.

1460 GS born in Susa. Walls come down in Umgung. Umgung falls w/o loss--the RNG has been my friend this set.

We steal gunpowder from Wang.

1465 prepare to attack KwaDukuza.

1470 we lose 2 spies at KwaDukuza but walls come down. The RNG continues to shine on us as it falls w/o loss and we kill 9 units on the turn.

1475 We steal optics from D.

Move units up--we should have Ulundi in 2 turns.
Spy in Pusan is ready to steal astro in 2 turns.

My recommendation is we make peace w/ Zulu after Ulundi, take the rest of D's tech, and then finish him off.

May want to build another caravel somewhere. Spy in Mutal is headed to join caravel at Chicken.

Very odd set--I didn't lose a single unit on the attack.

I think we should plan our wonders before we play the next set.

Game is clearly won at this point.

 

[ungy]

Save is here:

 

[pindicator]

Just want to let you folks know that I am going to be unavailable for CIV-duty for most of the rest of September. If I can get my next turnset to fall sometime next week I should be able to fit it in. Otherwise, please skip me on the dates that fall in my sig.

 

[sunrise089]

Just want to let you folks know that I am going to be unavailable for CIV-duty for most of the rest of September. If I can get my next turnset to fall sometime next week I should be able to fit it in. Otherwise, please skip me on the dates that fall in my sig.

I'll swap with you if I come back up in the rotation so you can play.

Roster:
Kodii - up!
pindicator - possibly on deck
Sunrise089
Swiss Pauli
ungy - just played

 

[Kodii]

Got it, but I'm busy so I won't get to it until Saturday. If someone can jump ahead of me, go ahead.

 

[Kodii]

T1 1480AD - Persian revolt in Susa

T2 1485AD - Music, Drama and Meditation are stolen from Darius; Astronomy fails to be stolen from Wang and he knows its us; I successfully incite a revolt in Ulundi and take the city with minimal losses.



T3 1490AD - I take ungy's advice and take peace with Shaka. He would give me Nodwengu, but it would be swamped in culture, so I take Ondini instead; I upgrade a trireme to a caravel and begin to look for the remaining civs. Shaka's map reveals that he is already looking and I run into one of Wang's caravels later



T6 1505AD - Another revolt in Susa, I can't wait to KILL him.

T7 1510AD - Revolt in Pasargadae, wounding our troops and delaying the war ; I steal Philosophy from Darius after one failed attempt then declare war

T10 1525AD - Incite an revolt in Sardis and take the city; I steal Astronomy from Wang after one failed attempt



T11 1530AD - Incite a revolt in Bactra and take the city, Darius is now extinct; I meet Justinian who is probably the more dominant of the two AIs over there, another GG was born a while back so they must still be warring.





I stop here because we have a couple of things to decide, primarily our warpath, our city specialization (national wonders) and GP use (the GG and GS I found as well as the GG born in my turnset).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96336/RBtS1b_AD-1530.CivBeyondSwordSave