[Religion and Revolution]: Clarifying List of Yields

[raystuttgart]

I kindly ask, that everybody, who is not part of the team, would please ignore this thread.
Thanks.
(It is basically an internal technical discussion.)

Please use this thread if you want to discuss your ideas with us.

@Robert:
For purposes of creating gamefonts, I think, it is necessary that we somehow "fix" our list of yields.
(At least to a 98% state, so that I will not have to rework gamefonts too often, because this really is a lot of work.)

Current:

Tradable:
(Do you want to replace or throw out any of these or even add ?)

01) Food
02) Wood
03) Stone
04) Iron Ore
05) Silver
06) Gold
07) Gems
08) Coal
09) Hemp
10) Healing Herbs
11) Precious Wood
12) Cocoafruits
13) Coffeeberries
14) Red Pepper
15) Barley
16) Sugar
17) Winegrapes
18) Cattlehides
19) Fur
20) Premium Fur
21) Sheep Wool
22) Cotton
23) Indigo
24) Tobacco
25) Whale Blubber
26) Luxury Goods from Europe
27) Horses
28) Tools
29) Weapons
30) Cannons
31) Pearls
32) Walruss Ivory
33) Natural Rubber
34) Salt
35) Ropes and Sailcloth
36) Medicine
37) Expensive Furniture
38) Dried Cocoa
39) Dried Coffe
40) Spices
41) Beer
42) Rum
43) Wine
44) Cheap Leathergoods
45) Coats
46) Luxurious Furcoats
47) Woolclothes
48) Cloth
49) Coloured Cloth
50) Cigarrs
51) (Whale-)Trainoil
52) Trading Goods

Abstract:

53) Hammers
54) Bells
55) Crosses
56) Education

New Abstract Yields we have discussed so far:
(Did I forget anything ? Do you have any features in mind right now, that would add more yields ?)

57) Protestant Crosses
58) Native Knowledge Points
59) Constitution Paragraph Points
60) Invention Points
61) Culture

Satisfaction is no Yield (it is a calulated % value)

 

[Robert Surcouf]

Hi Ray,

I'm not sure I understand everything. You are going to edit the TGA file. And you would rather do it once and for all. A I right?

52 tradable yields is OK. We have discussed the non-tradable yields, so I agree.

I was wondering if I would be a good idea to add a specific yield for culture (in standard game Bells help you expand your territory)... I haven't thought this trough, but I suppose that now is the best time to ask.

Could you also add Game Fonts from Civ 4 Bts, just in case we need them (for my "no
variables hidden, or for our new Diplomatic Advisor screen or anything else). Could you add Culture icon as a Game Font? Could you add the Power game font too?

Do you know how to print the Civ4 Religion icons (e.g. Judaism holy city, line 4, row 2 in Civ4Col GameFont.tga) in Civ4Col? I'm just curious !

 

[raystuttgart]

You are going to edit the TGA file.

Yes, I am editing Gamefont.tga and Gamefont_75.tga.

And you would rather do it once and for all. A I right?

No, not once and for all.

It is only that adding or removing icons from the Gamefonts in the upper lines can really mess up other lines below.
Then you have to check and repair again.

I simply do not want to do this 20 times.
(If we will do this 4 or 5 times, then it is ok.)

52 tradable yields is OK. We have discussed the non-tradable yields, so I agree.

Ok, then. Maybe we will have a short discussion about the specialbuildings later on.

I was wondering if I would be a good idea to add a specific yield for culture (in standard game Bells help you expand your territory)... I haven't thought this trough, but I suppose that now is the best time to ask.

Actually I am not a fan of introducing yield culture as another concept.
I would leave that point, as it is.

Could you also add Game Fonts from Civ 4 Bts, just in case we need them (for my "no
variables hidden, or for our new Diplomatic Advisor screen or anything else). Could you add Culture icon as a Game Font? Could you add the Power game font too?

Adding icons for general use in the bottom is not very problematic.
(The only ones problematic are the ones in the top, which are yields and specialbuildings, since they could influence all the lines below.)

So I guess, we will simply add them, when we need them.

Do you know how to print the Civ4 Religion icons (e.g. Judaism holy city, line 4, row 2 in Civ4Col GameFont.tga) in Civ4Col? I'm just curious !

I would need to look for the reference.
(Do not know it yet. Ususally the ones from Civ4 are still working, if the relative position in the line is still the same.)

 

[Robert Surcouf]

I see. I would like to display Culture rate/ Culture Level in the Domestic advisor screen. Could you add Civ4 Culture icon, please?

 

[raystuttgart]

I see. I would like to display Culture rate/ Culture Level in the Domestic advisor screen. Could you add Civ4 Culture icon, please?

So ok, I see you really want "Culture".
By coincidence I have a concept for culture, as well.

I will introduce in our development thread and if you like it, we can do it.
(Of course we could do another concept for Culture as well. )

Edit:

Here it is.

 

[raystuttgart]

@Robert:

Could you please attach the GameFont.tga and the GameFont_75.tga as 7z in this thread ?
(I do not have Civ4 or BtS anymore.)

And yes ok, I will add the Icons you want now.
(Just give me a list with also telling me the exact position in the Gamefonts from Civ4 Bts.)

But please give me some time for it.
(I am really pretty busy this weekend and will be gone during next week again.)

 

[Robert Surcouf]

Here you go.

I've found other mistakes in the Domestic Advisor screen. I will probably have to remove a column ("column 0", city view is probably the best choice), remove a yield, or add a new page (a third page)... Otherwise "100" will be displayed "1..". What do you think?

Or, we could forbid everyone to use 1024*768 resolution
In higher resolutions it could work !

 

[raystuttgart]

Ok thanks.

Just tell me which other icons you want.
(Except "Culture", which I will integrate in the Yields of course.)

 

[raystuttgart]

@Robert:

The last Gamefonts you sent me by PM ... what are they from ?
They are absolutely unbelievable in size !

I love all these icons !
I might even buy civilization 4 again, just to see the stuff of that mod !

 

[raystuttgart]

Hi Robert,

I repaired the GameFonts.
(Took me two hours in total to get rid of all errors.)

Now everything works:

• Yields
• SpecialBuildings
• Mission-Crosses
• Bonus-Icons at Mouseover
• Icons in Advisor-Screens
  ...

I did not directly put in new Yields or Building-Icons now.
(I will do that, once we create the corresponding feature. )

However, I have prepared the Gamefonts, so that up to 75 Yields and up to 50 SpecialBuilding-Icons could be put in there without affecting other icons.

So we are prepared for adding / changing, when we do our new features.

Edit:
Just found one other error.
I will fix it right now.

Edit 2:
Now I really think, that I have found all errors.
If I find one more, I will go crazy.

 

[Robert Surcouf]

Very good ! The Fonts come from Bts mod: Legends of Revolution (LoR)

I once bought a magazine called PC4WAR (it was in French of course...). It was a special MOD release. I read especially two articles called "The three most popular Civ IV mods" and "The three most popular Col mods"

Dazio told me that there were many mistakes in those articles. And yet we wouldn't be talking now if I had not read these articles... After reading those articles I decided to try Bts, Civ4Col, Bts mods and Civ4Col mods.

By the way the 3 mods were:
A) Legends of Revolution, Fall from Heaven 2, Star Trek.
B) Age of Discovery II, Dawn of a New Era and Mare Nostrum

Completely off topic. Do you like mods in an "alternate" universe? E.g. FFH 2 (magic), Star Trek (space), Colonization 2071 (space and alien), Dune (space), Mare Nostrum (alternate historical era)...

There are many alternate universe mods in Civ 4 Bts. One might not like them, but I really think it is a pity that some modders haven't tried to do it as a Civ4Col mod.

 

[raystuttgart]

Do you like mods in an "alternate" universe?

Generally, yes I do.
I am a big fan of fantasy and science-fiction.
(I have more than 1000 fantasy and science-fiction books ...)

I have modded myself many different games with science-fiction or fantasy settings.

1. Morrowind
2. Fallout 3
3. Galactic Civilizations 1 and 2
4. Mech Commander 2
5. Jagged Alliance 2
...

For some time I had also considered to stop modding CivCol and start modding Baldur's Gate (Trilogy).

However, currently I really want to focus modding on CivCol based on TAC.
(Meaning the setting of "Colonization and War of Independence".)

I really think that there is still so much potential for improvements, that it would almost break my heart to give up modding it ...

If I am satisfied with CivCol, I really do not know what I will do next.

E.g. FFH 2 (magic), Star Trek (space), Colonization 2071 (space and alien), Dune (space), Mare Nostrum (alternate historical era)...

Out of those, I have only really taken a look at Mare Nostrum. (But only for a very short time.)
Never played the others.

 

[Robert Surcouf]

Hi Ray,

3. Galactic Civilizations 1 and 2
5. Jagged Alliance 2

I've never heard of Galactic Civilizations and Jagged Alliance.

If I am satisfied with CivCol, I really do not know what I will do next.

I see !

For some time I had also considered to stop modding CivCol and start modding Baldur's Gate (Trilogy).

Count me in! I have a few ideas ... If you stat a BG mod (in ten years), I'll be there!

I really think that there is still so much potential for improvements, that it would almost break my heart to give up modding it ...

Of course. I'll stop posting "off topic" messages for now !

So do you like LoR crosses? If so we probably should ask them if we can use them.

 

[raystuttgart]

So do you like LoR crosses?

Yes I do and I have seen other cool icons in there too.

If so we probably should ask them if we can use them.

Usually most modders do not really care if you use their icons or graphics,
as long as you tell it in credits.

But for reasons of politeness, yes we could ask them.
Would you do that, please ?

 

[Robert Surcouf]

Yes I will !

 

[tox_von]

Can Religion and Revolution mod (what has been done) be downloaded anywhere? I cant find links and the discussion topics are scattered does it need beta testing?

 

[raystuttgart]

Can Religion and Revolution mod (what has been done) be downloaded anywhere? I cant find links and the discussion topics are scattered does it need beta testing?

No, there is no download yet.
We have not published Relgion and Revolution and will probably have our first release a few weeks after TAC 2.03.
Please be patient.

Please do not post in this thread anymore unless you have become a team member.

I kindly ask, that everybody, who is not part of the team, would please ignore this thread.
Thanks.
(It is basically an internal technical discussion.)

Please use this thread if you want to discuss your ideas with us.

 

[raystuttgart]

Great, it will be cool to have the extra yields.

Although I will go up to only 48 tradable yields for now.
(We currently have 19 tradable yields.)

I am also still working a little bit on the concept.
(For example equal distribution of yields for terrains).

Just give me some time to finish my first implementation, which will be the base for discussion and improvements.
(I might need a little bit for that, depending how much other task get in between, but I think we should be able to include this in Release 1.)

I will leave out for now several strategical yields, which would be used in a later feature or would need a lot of AI coding.
(I will leave out for example goods like Stone, Medicine, Swords ...)

However, I will do
* MultipleYieldsConsumed/Produced
* General AI Improvements considering production of goods and buildings

Since there are many new yields/professions, to help them be easily understandable I have a minor interface request: when making the cityscreen bar at the bottom, where possible could you place the raw yield directly above the processed equivalent? (eg Furs directly above Coats).

That is the plan.

Also, I think it would be good to add the actual name to some of the tooltips and pedia screens where possible, instead of just the icon which is sometimes difficult to see and players won't always know what it is.

For example:
Produces Dye from Indigo
instead of
Produces from

Yes, that is possible.

-----------------

Before I continue working on "Economy" I will first do:

1. Last Native Nations
2. Analysing and fixing bugs if reported.

 

[orlanth]

BTW, will you also be introducing some new Terrain types and possibly Feature types to go along with the new yields? With a large number of yields, it would seem good to have a variety of terrains and features, so we're not stuck with only a few terrains that need to produce large numbers of different yields.

as you mentioned several Terrains and Feature graphics are available from Caveman 2 Cosmos:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7175012&postcount=3
and Blue Marble, if we're not already using that:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=292140

 

[raystuttgart]

BTW, will you also be introducing some new Terrain types and possibly Feature types to go along with the new yields?

No, currently there are no further Terrains or Terrain-Features planned.

Problem with new Terrains is not the XML, although even that is a lot.
Efforts for rebuilding Maps/Szenarios and adjusting Mapscripts are really big.

With a large number of yields, it would seem good to have a variety of terrains and features, so we're not stuck with only a few terrains that need to produce large numbers of different yields.

For now, we should get along without new Terrains.
I have put a lot of thought into the new Yields, don't worry.